Hugh Neilson Posted February 16, 2009 Report Share Posted February 16, 2009 Re: Code vs Killing, but Gods a little fuzzy about kneecaps. And it validates my use of the term. Check Definition 4 of torture. You don't have to touch someone to torture them. No, you could tell them you're going to slowly eat their children, feet first, then bind their souls to you with a necromantic spell, then leave this place of existence forever, with their children's souls in tow. And then you have to follow through and carry out this plan. That would certainly torture the victim without the need to touch him. But simply saying "I'll hurt you if you don't answer the question" is very different from inflicting the pain threatened. Torture has to involve excrutiating pain (whether physical, mental, or spiritual. I leave that open) for it to be torture. Otherwise, it'd be something else, like say, annoyance, or boring. Minion: "Stop touching me" Hero: "Answer the question and I'll stop touching you. Stay silent, and you force me to give you a 'wet willy'" Minion: "No, by all the Gods, make it stop!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Hawk Posted February 16, 2009 Report Share Posted February 16, 2009 Re: Code vs Killing, but Gods a little fuzzy about kneecaps. So, threatening to drop someone off a cliff isn't torture, because you aren't actually harming him. And actually dropping him off the cliff so he goes splat isn't torture either (it certainly didn't hurt for very long). And threatening the next guy in line with the cliff after he sees what you did to the first guy isn't torture... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teflon Billy Posted February 16, 2009 Report Share Posted February 16, 2009 Re: Code vs Killing, but Gods a little fuzzy about kneecaps. So, threatening to drop someone off a cliff isn't torture, because you aren't actually harming him. And actually dropping him off the cliff so he goes splat isn't torture either (it certainly didn't hurt for very long). And threatening the next guy in line with the cliff after he sees what you did to the first guy isn't torture... Nope, that would be coercion . If you don't want your "heroes" using coercion to get people to talk then define your world's morality such that coercion immoral. But quit calling things torture that aren't and quit forcing a narrowminded view of what constitutes heroism and the heroic on the rest of us. TB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Hawk Posted February 16, 2009 Report Share Posted February 16, 2009 Re: Code vs Killing, but Gods a little fuzzy about kneecaps. The discussion has reached the semantics stage, and so I'll bow out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teflon Billy Posted February 16, 2009 Report Share Posted February 16, 2009 Re: Code vs Killing, but Gods a little fuzzy about kneecaps. The discussion has reached the semantics stage' date=' and so I'll bow out.[/quote']It reached that on page 1. I just got tired of the whole "You aren't a hero if you send the prisoner to bed without his milk and cookies" definition of torture. TB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nagisawa Takumi Posted February 17, 2009 Report Share Posted February 17, 2009 Re: Code vs Killing, but Gods a little fuzzy about kneecaps. Nope, that would be coercion . If you don't want your "heroes" using coercion to get people to talk then define your world's morality such that coercion immoral. But quit calling things torture that aren't and quit forcing a narrowminded view of what constitutes heroism and the heroic on the rest of us. TB Don't look at me. I personally think that beating a baddie up to make him confess, or threatening to drop him from a great height are in genre tropes, and I have no issues on it. It's those who like their games a little more 4 colour that seem to have this extreme view. Why can't there be a middle ground?? Oh, well. Time for me to get out while the gettin's good. Ciao, kids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adventus Posted February 17, 2009 Report Share Posted February 17, 2009 Re: Code vs Killing, but Gods a little fuzzy about kneecaps. This topic is why I like the Palladium Alignment system. It handles these subjects much better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeropoint Posted February 17, 2009 Report Share Posted February 17, 2009 Re: Code vs Killing, but Gods a little fuzzy about kneecaps. Batman has such a reputation that most don't know what he would do in any given situation. Oh, no. They have a very good idea of what he would do to them. That's why all he has to do is lean in and glower, and they sing like canaries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greywind Posted February 17, 2009 Report Share Posted February 17, 2009 Re: Code vs Killing, but Gods a little fuzzy about kneecaps. The Dark Knight... There is a reason Batman blocked the door before he started beating the crap out of the Joker... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marketeer Posted February 17, 2009 Report Share Posted February 17, 2009 Re: Code vs Killing, but Gods a little fuzzy about kneecaps. It reached that on page 1. I just got tired of the whole "You aren't a hero if you send the prisoner to bed without his milk and cookies" definition of torture. TB I realize that you are probably aware of this, but the thread is currently 13 pages long, so some of the posters (and more importantly, readers) may have forgotten the original context. The original character, Riot, is described as "breaking/crippling bones" during interrogations, and in order to "get cooperation". Granted, some of the later discussions centered around just what qualifies as torture, but I would suggest that this qualifies as torture, and not in a mere semantic sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teflon Billy Posted February 17, 2009 Report Share Posted February 17, 2009 Re: Code vs Killing, but Gods a little fuzzy about kneecaps. I realize that you are probably aware of this, but the thread is currently 13 pages long, so some of the posters (and more importantly, readers) may have forgotten the original context. The original character, Riot, is described as "breaking/crippling bones" during interrogations, and in order to "get cooperation". Granted, some of the later discussions centered around just what qualifies as torture, but I would suggest that this qualifies as torture, and not in a mere semantic sense. Nope, you are absolutely right, that most definitely is torture. TB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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