Bullet Kata

[nexus]

I know there is at least one other thread on this subject around but I can't seem to find it… so I apologize for the duplicate thread.

 

The effect I want to simulate in Hero terms has been seen in some high power/over the top movies and comics when an extremely agile/battle savvy character weaves and dodges among a group of attackers, drawing and evading fire such that their attacks hit each other instead. It's usually an effect used against ranged attacks but there have been melee versions as well. In addition, some times the character with the power can attack on their own at the time, sometimes not.

 

My first thought was some form of missile deflection/reflection with limitation applied to Reflection portion of the power that limits it to affect targets in the line of fire for the reflected attack.

 

I know the effect is one that is either cool or retarded depending your tastes, but it's something I’d like build for a specific character so suggestions like "find some really stupid goons" and the like don't really help.

[Sean Waters]

Re: Bullet Kata

 

Well it is not much advertised but attacks that miss go somewhere. Arguably if I'm standing in front of A, B attacks me and I move out of the way, A should get hit.

 

So, we could do it as a maneouvre (which I'm making up, just so we're clear ):

 

The Enticing Evasion: OCV-, DCV+2, 1" move, abort, special

 

This works like a normal dodge except that you do not get the normal DCV bonus and you HAVE to move into a different hex. If you are not hit by the attack, you can nominate one PC or NPC in a hex adjacent to the hex you started in and the attack is immediately applied to that character instead, using the same roll to hit against their DCV.

 

You could also build it as a missile reflection power, and that is possibly the easiest route (but doesn't work against melee attacks).

 

You could also do this:

 

Variable Power Pool, 75 base + 43 control cost, Variable Special Effects (Any SFX; +1/2), Cosmic (+2) (204 Active Points); Limited Class Of Powers Available Very Limited (-1), Character Has No Choice Regarding How Powers Change (-1/2), Limited Power Power loses about a third of its effectiveness (Only functions if incoming attack misses; -1/2)

 

The VPP has to be used to build a version of the incoming attack up to 50 active points AND has to include 'trigger' at +1/2 (requires zero phase action), so someone shoots you with a 4d6 RKA (fire) attack and misses and you trigger an attack of 3d6+1 RKA (fire) against a nearby opponent.

 

The point limit is because you can't always get a solid shot in.

 

I'm sure there are plenty of other ideas, but that will get you startred.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Bullet Kata

 

Why worry about Missile Deflection at all?

 

Just buy the attack you want to use. Then give the character Defense Maneuver and CSL's with DCV to cover not being hit.

 

Here's one way to model the attack itself:

 

20 Bullet Kata: Killing Attack - Ranged 2d6, Reduced Endurance (1/2 END; +1/4), Area Of Effect Nonselective (4" Radius; +3/4) (60 Active Points); OIF (Enemies' gun attacks of opportunity [works best if surrounded by 6 or more opponents]; -1/2), No Range (-1/2), Cannot Use Targeting (-1/2), Limited Power Must make Half Move to use (-1/2) - END=2

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Bullet Kata

 

The 'sucker attack' is described in the Champions book, I believe.

[nexus]

Re: Bullet Kata

 

Why worry about Missile Deflection at all?

 

The character makes their attackers shoot each other so the attack would match the one being fired at her. The simplest way I can think of to implement that is Missile "Deflection" but I wanted to see if there were other suggestions.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Bullet Kata

 

The character makes their attackers shoot each other so the attack would match the one being fired at her. The simplest way I can think of to implement that is Missile "Deflection" but I wanted to see if there were other suggestions.

 

I understand the sfx.

 

But we already have weapon of opportunity foci.

 

Why do the the weapons have to be defined as ones actually fired by the character?

[rauer]

Re: Bullet Kata

 

Here's one way to model the attack itself:

 

20 Bullet Kata: Killing Attack - Ranged 2d6, Reduced Endurance (1/2 END; +1/4), Area Of Effect Nonselective (4" Radius; +3/4) (60 Active Points); OIF (Enemies' gun attacks of opportunity [works best if surrounded by 6 or more opponents]; -1/2), No Range (-1/2), Cannot Use Targeting (-1/2), Limited Power Must make Half Move to use (-1/2) - END=2

 

Would this construction result in a situation where one incoming attack could trigger an AOE response, or does the OIF above inherently limit the AOE attack along the lines of "This AOE can trigger a number of times equal to or less than the number of incoming attacks?"

 

My reason for asking is that I am assuming Nexus' idea of the power would reflect a "one for one" type of response.

 

 

Aside from the above question, I think the VPP model would allow the Bullet Kata to simulate a wider variety of attacks, but not at the same time (which would be an issue when the character was attacked by a PD EB and an ED EB in the same phase).

 

The more I think about it the less I can think of something that perfectly reflects what you want, Nexus. I am sure it will simmer in the back of my brain while I do homework this weekend

[nexus]

Re: Bullet Kata

 

I understand the sfx.

 

But we already have weapon of opportunity foci.

 

Why do the the weapons have to be defined as ones actually fired by the character?

 

Because that's what they are. If some shoots at her with a freeze beam (NND vs LS: Immune to Cold) because she evades it and causes them to hit someone else it's not going to become an RKA.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Bullet Kata

 

Because that's what they are. If some shoots at her with a freeze beam (NND vs LS: Immune to Cold) because she evades it and causes them to hit someone else it's not going to become an RKA.

 

Hey, you're the one who picked the thread title of "Bullet Kata" as opposed to the more general "Gun Kata" which suggested 'normal bullets' in a heroic setting to me. Since the question was posted to the general HERO System Discussion forum with no genre context I went with the least complicated build possible based on the information provided.

 

The same type of utility vs. ALL attacks could be achieved in a similar fashion using a VPP but would be far more expensive due to that framework's minimum 'buy in'.

[nexus]

Re: Bullet Kata

 

Hey' date=' you're the one who picked the thread title of "[u']Bullet[/u] Kata" as opposed to the more general "Gun Kata" which suggested 'normal bullets' in a heroic setting to me.

 

Well, I think you were being a little too literal... and "Bullet Kata" is what I've most often heard it referred. But anyway you asked why I was considering Missile Deflection/Reflection and I answered.

[rauer]

Re: Bullet Kata

 

A limitation for (only up to DC of incoming attack) would help one aspect. Another limitation for (only to mirror special effect of incoming attack) would also help, assuming the presence of a Variable Special Effect advantage.

 

Both suggestions assume a build like a VPP that is flexable enough to do what you are looking for. I don't know what to estimate for the value of either limitation, honestly.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Bullet Kata

 

*waves hand*

 

Hello, hello? Is this thing on? Testing, testing?

 

This is the 'sucker attack' as defined in the Champions sourcebook, pg 155.

[Wyrm Ouroboros]

Re: Bullet Kata

 

Which I, at least, don't have.

 

Nexus, I'd personally go with the missile deflection/reflection with appropriate limitations to the target reflected into; after all, with sixty zillion people shooting at you, it gets harder every time...

[Sean Waters]

Re: Bullet Kata

 

Missile reflection is far and away the most straightforward way of doing this but it doesn't work for melee attacks. Other than a custom (or even new official) maneouvre the only other way I can think to do it is extra DCV coupled with a VPP to simulate and return the incoming attacks.

[Ockham's Spoon]

Re: Bullet Kata

 

I am not familiar with the Sucker manuever, but that sounds like what you want. There was a similar discussion under the title "Crossfire" which I would put a link to, but I don't know how (sorry). But barring the Sucker manuever, here's my 2 cents:

 

You might try modeling it as "grab and block" manuever, the exception being the "grab" doesn't actually restrain anybody and would be a DEX vs. DEX roll instead of STR vs. STR. If you make a good "DEX grab" then you have successfully interposed yourself between your target and someone else attacking you. Then you can "block" with the target of the DEX grab (OCV vs. OCV roll), the SFX being you duck out of the way at the last instant and the poor shmuck you set up gets hit instead of you. If you blow the block roll, then you weren't fast enough or you timed it wrong and get hit yourself.

 

To be really good at this manuever, either have a high DEX or buy levels with it. Lots of supers have much higher DEX than the mooks this would typically be used on, so you wouldn't need too many levels to make it reasonably effective.

[Bloodstone]

Re: Bullet Kata

 

Invisible Power FX Desolidification