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That could be nice. I have a 24-page campaign document already though a lot of it was simply cut & paste from the first two SA books' date=' then formatted nicely and saved into PDF. Of course there is some of our own slight modifications to things. I generally keep a campaign log for my games that are akin to the recaps you have for the first 9 sessions of SA I. All of the characters are required to have a background and history (technically not [i']required[/i] but you can't earn XP unless you have them). I don't know how prolific additional side stories and the like will be. In my Dark Champions campaigns some of the players and me did an occasional foray into side stories but no where near the level of SA I.

I'll see if I can set something up later today. What do you want me to call it? (Aside from Shadows Angelus). Is there a subtitle for the game? Or should it just be SA III?

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As for Angelus itself Eosin and I have been trying to calculate a possible size for the island city. Agreeing with some of Eosin's calculations here: I think right now we'd go for about a 28 or 29 mile radius city with a population density of about 100' date='000 per square mile. Tall buildings can hold a lot of people and still leave room for parks and other areas. This would give a population that tops out in the 75,000,000 range. About 800 square miles of city.[/quote']

I re-examined the math in this post. To get the area of a circle the formula is Pi x Radius^2. So if we have a city with a 28 mile radius the math would be:

3.14159 x (28^2) = 2463.0065 Sq. Miles (quite a bit bigger than the originally quoted 800 Sq. Miles.

If I assume a population density of 50,000 (less than originally planned) we'd still end up with a population of 123,150,320 people. That is a hell of a lot of people! It is almost the entire current population of modern Japan! We might ought to drop the density even more (put in more park land, golf courses, etc.) in order to lower that population figure some.

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I'll see if I can set something up later today. What do you want me to call it? (Aside from Shadows Angelus). Is there a subtitle for the game? Or should it just be SA III?

There is no hurry. Things are still in a state of flux. I spend as much time editing the stuff I have already done as I do expanding on things that need it. SA III would be okay.

I really wonder if it will have enough variety to warrant a page of its own. I am even going with the 9th Squad of Precinct 13 for the character's group. It might almost be more of a rerun, than a different campaign.

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There is no hurry. Things are still in a state of flux. I spend as much time editing the stuff I have already done as I do expanding on things that need it. SA III would be okay.

I really wonder if it will have enough variety to warrant a page of its own. I am even going with the 9th Squad of Precinct 13 for the character's group. It might almost be more of a rerun, than a different campaign.

You never know what might happen. Besides, it'll be interesting to see how it develops, especially if you start to concentrate on things we glossed over -- like the size of the city, population, maps, and so on.

PS: There is a Shadows Angelus Yahoo Group. You'd need to ask Ross about becoming part of it. Or starting your own. We posted a huge amount of messages while the game was on. Like over 800 in one month between 7 people.

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I am guessing that watson is the name Ross goes by on these forums? If so I will send him a PM.

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I am guessing that watson is the name Ross goes by on these forums? If so I will send him a PM.

That's correct.

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PS: There is a Shadows Angelus Yahoo Group. You'd need to ask Ross about becoming part of it. Or starting your own. We posted a huge amount of messages while the game was on. Like over 800 in one month between 7 people.

See, now that sounds like an awesome game when the players and GM have that much back and fourth.

I guess I'll need to pick up Kazei 5. I already looked at some of the rules that were linked on the Silent Mobius pages.

PS - I borrowed Silent Mobius (Animated TV) from Edsel. Neat stuff, I really liked the Wire/Kitty episode.

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I re-examined the math in this post. To get the area of a circle the formula is Pi x Radius^2. So if we have a city with a 28 mile radius the math would be:

3.14159 x (28^2) = 2463.0065 Sq. Miles (quite a bit bigger than the originally quoted 800 Sq. Miles.

If I assume a population density of 50,000 (less than originally planned) we'd still end up with a population of 123,150,320 people. That is a hell of a lot of people! It is almost the entire current population of modern Japan! We might ought to drop the density even more (put in more park land, golf courses, etc.) in order to lower that population figure some.

I figured on a square but I am a math tard so it could easily be bad math. Still, I'd leave the population density up above 60,000 which is double New York City. There are several ways that you can alter things to keep the size largish while keeping the population density up. Of course, you will have some park areas and "green areas" some of those could even be quite large. A "Central Park" like area with accompanied biome's could occupy a 5-ish mile hunk of land in center of the city (a reclaimed area project from one of the earliest districts). Waterways could be more prominent than we discussed last night - maybe not to the full Marco extent but somewhere closer to Marco than what we had imagined. Hydrolizer farms could require several city blocks and be spread throughout the city.... i.e. we increase the non-inhabitable spaces. With these kinds of adjustments the city size stays stable as does the population density of the inhabitable areas but the actual size of the "residential" habitation goes down a bit.

PS - here is the image I was talking about last night that should be in the heart of the upper class area.

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PS - I borrowed Silent Mobius (Animated TV) from Edsel. Neat stuff' date=' I really liked the Wire/Kitty episode.[/quote']

We're turning Eosin into an anime fan. The end times are upon us.

PS - Wanton display of Anime-Fu... It's Kiddy, not Kitty.

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I figured on a square but I am a math tard so it could easily be bad math. Still' date=' I'd leave the population density up above 60,000 which is double New York City. There are several ways that you can alter things to keep the size largish while keeping the population density up. Of course, you will have some park areas and "green areas" some of those could even be quite large. A "Central Park" like area with accompanied biome's could occupy a 5-ish mile hunk of land in center of the city (a reclaimed area project from one of the earliest districts). Waterways could be more prominent than we discussed last night - maybe not to the full Marco extent but somewhere closer to Marco than what we had imagined. Hydrolizer farms could require several city blocks and be spread throughout the city.... i.e. we increase the non-inhabitable spaces. With these kinds of adjustments the city size stays stable as does the population density of the inhabitable areas but the actual size of the "residential" habitation goes down a bit.[/quote']

I am still not keen on having a massive amounts of canals throughout the city. I don't want it to become a futuristic Venice. Yes, I agree that it should have quite a bit of water area in the city, I just want the primary means of transport for the general public to be ground vehicles and some air. It could be that the canals are mostly relegated to commercial use and city services. The docks the ring the periphery of the city could load and off-load cargo from with in the city that is carried by commercial or automated barges that ply the canals. Civilian water traffic in the interior could restricted to specified areas.

PS - here is the image I was talking about last night that should be in the heart of the upper class area.

You always seem to find the most amazing pictures. This is beautiful.

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We're turning Eosin into an anime fan. The end times are upon us.

PS - Wanton display of Anime-Fu... It's Kiddy, not Kitty.

Kitten is in Kazei 5. She was not inspired by Kiddy Phenil. Nope, not one bit.

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I am still not keen on having a massive amounts of canals throughout the city. I don't want it to become a futuristic Venice. Yes' date=' I agree that it should have quite a bit of water area in the city, I just want the primary means of transport for the general public to be ground vehicles and some air. It could be that the canals are mostly relegated to commercial use and city services. The docks the ring the periphery of the city could load and off-load cargo from with in the city that is carried by commercial or automated barges that ply the canals. Civilian water traffic in the interior could restricted to specified areas.[/quote']

I cannot imagine that most of the public would not travel by means of some mass transit system. A subway seems out on first blush so a raised rail system certainly seems like a way to go.

I actually picture many of the canals being used for waste transport. It isn't like there is a city dump - all the used garbage has to go somewhere. The regional distribution centers would likely refine it down to sludge and then load that into waste ships that transport it to land. It would also be hella expensive to truck it in, refine it, truck to the docks, pump it into ships and then out. Instead, I see a "local" collection point. Short transit to a refinery and then the refinery dock loads it daily into ships for transport to whatever the final resting place of the refuse.

As to the waters - yeah, I figure it is pretty much off limits save for this area in the upper class district which would be a city wide resort/attraction. Lake Angelus would be regular sand filtered water (no salt) with swimming areas and other attractions. The Marcos map will have to be "filled" in with some construction - it would only make financial sense - but figuring on each "district" have a de-salination tank will add several largish bodies of water (the tanks are above ground expand the size of the city and provide an emergency reserve. If we put them below ground they are effectively off the map and increase land utilization which shrinks the size of the city area)

We can always do hand-wavium but, personally, I like to at least believe it could work.

You always seem to find the most amazing pictures. This is beautiful.

I've got a whole folder of them marked just for Angelus that I've collected. I've been considering how to incorporate some of them into the city design.

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A few notes -- it's been established that Angelus has a mass-transit system. Some sort of monorail or the like.

It's possible Angelus doesn't ship its waste anywhere. Organic sludge might go into some huge reprocessing center, where its used for fertilizer, or is poured into nanofactory tanks and used to make Clades and other lifeforms.

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I cannot imagine that most of the public would not travel by means of some mass transit system. A subway seems out on first blush so a raised rail system certainly seems like a way to go.

I actually picture many of the canals being used for waste transport. It isn't like there is a city dump - all the used garbage has to go somewhere. The regional distribution centers would likely refine it down to sludge and then load that into waste ships that transport it to land. It would also be hella expensive to truck it in, refine it, truck to the docks, pump it into ships and then out. Instead, I see a "local" collection point. Short transit to a refinery and then the refinery dock loads it daily into ships for transport to whatever the final resting place of the refuse.

As to the waters - yeah, I figure it is pretty much off limits save for this area in the upper class district which would be a city wide resort/attraction. Lake Angelus would be regular sand filtered water (no salt) with swimming areas and other attractions. The Marcos map will have to be "filled" in with some construction - it would only make financial sense - but figuring on each "district" have a de-salination tank will add several largish bodies of water (the tanks are above ground expand the size of the city and provide an emergency reserve. If we put them below ground they are effectively off the map and increase land utilization which shrinks the size of the city area)

We can always do hand-wavium but, personally, I like to at least believe it could work.

This sounds pretty much like what I had in mind.

A few notes -- it's been established that Angelus has a mass-transit system. Some sort of monorail or the like.

It's possible Angelus doesn't ship its waste anywhere. Organic sludge might go into some huge reprocessing center, where its used for fertilizer, or is poured into nanofactory tanks and used to make Clades and other lifeforms.

With the futuristic tech at their disposal this sounds like a good plan. With enough high-technology (or nano-tech) I figure that just about anything can be broken down to its base components for re-use. The waterways of the city make convenient routes for shipping imports into the heart of the city, shipping exports out of the city to the docks, and also serve as transport lanes for things like waste products which ends up a assorted reclamation centers throughout the city. Reclaimed materials produced by the recycling centers then ship back out to various consumer industries along the same water ways. Heavy barges will still likely (in the 22nd century) be the most economical way to ship bulk goods like this.

Some sort of a high speed tube system makes sense for mass transit. Such a tube system could be elevated in areas of the city and even dip down into the steam tunnel levels in other areas. Probably some sort of enclosed maglev system.

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That answers some questions about waste - I like the breakdown and re-use. And the Clade thing could partially explain what happens to dead bodies of poor people...

Energy... Biofuel (the rest of the poor people), tidal, hydroelectric/tidal, and nuclear fusion power sources. Primary power source would have to be fusion but I think there should be a relic reactor site or two. It is just a great visual.

I am think adopting the lilypad farm and farm buildings would work for the majority of foodstuff.

Here are the lilypads... These would be used to grow the bulk food stuffs.

These high rise green houses would be the equilivant of "local farms" some areas would have several (like the upper class and coporate sectors) while other areas would have none. These would be used for more exotic growing like apple orchards, citrus, and spices.

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It was established in SAII that there are very few cemeteries. Most people are cremated. Only a precious few are "buried" and most are actually entombed, much like in New Orleans. One could argue that unidentified corpses and the like get chucked into the processors along with the the organic waste. Seems rather cold and uncaring, but....

Also, a lot of products made from compressed paper and the like. Easy to break back down and recycle.

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PS - thanks for chiming in Susano. It is great to hear what you envisioned so that I can work the city while staying true to your vision and Edsel's vision. The thought of a floating city fascinates me so I've done a ton of research but ultimately the city needs to serve the game rather than an exercise in future tech. Still, my goal is to be as real as possible for a make believe floating city with the population of Great Briton.

PPS - why did you name it Angelus? I had an idea about using part of Los Angelus as the origin for the city. You can't build a city unless you know from whence it sprang.

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The New World

Subject to Edsel's approval. This is a modified image from a global warming site - I tweaked the coastline a little bit and cropped it down to the game area.

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PS - thanks for chiming in Susano. It is great to hear what you envisioned so that I can work the city while staying true to your vision and Edsel's vision. The thought of a floating city fascinates me so I've done a ton of research but ultimately the city needs to serve the game rather than an exercise in future tech. Still, my goal is to be as real as possible for a make believe floating city with the population of Great Briton.

PPS - why did you name it Angelus? I had an idea about using part of Los Angelus as the origin for the city. You can't build a city unless you know from whence it sprang.

Uhm... correction -- I didn't create the setting. Ross Watson did. So my comments reflect the creative effort of 7 people, including myself, but shouldn't be taken as "Word of God" on the matter. On the other hand, Ross was more than happy to absorb our ideas, and SAII was very much a group effort, with everyone in on the design process.

As for the city itself... I don't know why Ross used "Angelus", but I suspect a play on Los Angeles. In addition, the city was very much driven by plot. It had what was needed at the time. There wasn't a huge amount of thought or detail into how it worked, since we were all XSWAT officers, not city engineers.

On the other hand, I love what you're doing, and if we ever do another SA game, I'm sure we'll use your ideas as needed.

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The New World

Subject to Edsel's approval. This is a modified image from a global warming site - I tweaked the coastline a little bit and cropped it down to the game area.

That might be a bit much... in Ross's setting, an earthquake (the BIG one) rips California asunder and causes the San Andreas plate to collapse. Also, it was 2112 in our game (but you might be starting earlier....)

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PS: I've been considering a Haymaker! article detailing additional officer concepts and write-ups I've had and developed.

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Uhm... correction -- I didn't create the setting. Ross Watson did. So my comments reflect the creative effort of 7 people, including myself, but shouldn't be taken as "Word of God" on the matter. On the other hand, Ross was more than happy to absorb our ideas, and SAII was very much a group effort, with everyone in on the design process.

As for the city itself... I don't know why Ross used "Angelus", but I suspect a play on Los Angeles. In addition, the city was very much driven by plot. It had what was needed at the time. There wasn't a huge amount of thought or detail into how it worked, since we were all XSWAT officers, not city engineers.

On the other hand, I love what you're doing, and if we ever do another SA game, I'm sure we'll use your ideas as needed.

OK, Thanks Ross.

I am one of those strange critters who likes his fantasy to be as real as possible. If the city (or magic or healing) works without requiring too much of a stretch for me then the stretchy parts of the game work but when I spend all my time at the game table thinking, "What kind of magic can make this river work because it sure as heck doesn't flow like the map without some magic involved. Hmmm, maybe physics is different in XXX world. I wonder if there are platetectonics?" Well, at that point you've pretty much lost me as a player. We all have our idiosyncrasies.

About the map. I was thinking post-apoc type world with melted polar caps and all that jazz. I'll see what Edsel wants to do. I am not sure of the date but I remembered that date from the handout.

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OK, Thanks Ross.

I am one of those strange critters who likes his fantasy to be as real as possible. If the city (or magic or healing) works without requiring too much of a stretch for me then the stretchy parts of the game work but when I spend all my time at the game table thinking, "What kind of magic can make this river work because it sure as heck doesn't flow like the map without some magic involved. Hmmm, maybe physics is different in XXX world. I wonder if there are platetectonics?" Well, at that point you've pretty much lost me as a player. We all have our idiosyncrasies.

About the map. I was thinking post-apoc type world with melted polar caps and all that jazz. I'll see what Edsel wants to do. I am not sure of the date but I remembered that date from the handout.

I can comment on how magic "works" if needed. At least how it worked for my character.

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Here is the rough outline of the city for Edsel to take a look at. I've edited the Marcos map down and eliminated some stuff, added others. Once I know that this works for Edsel I'll pull it into a vector program and actually redraw it.

I figure the scale to be 20-ish miles by 40-ish miles but haven't sat down to try and figure that out yet.

The big "lake" on the lower right is the cities primary desalination and water supply. The central "lake" would be Lake Angelus at the heart of the city. I figure this area was re-vitalized and re-built during the last 20 years after years of hodge-podge building and the failure of Rho Sector. Omega Sector could be isolated like the area to the middle right or it could be located smack in the middle of everything. I think people would tend to isolate it as much as possible rather than expand around it.

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