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Edsel

Shadow Angelus

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Re: Shadow Angelus

 

I never play the healer... too much like work. I am always happy to comment on them and provide jargon for the other players.

 

The TK rules was from the Silent Mobius page on Susano's site. Cost = 1 point for 1 STR of TK.

 

 

Just a question out of curiosity since it was brought up on this thread. What do you think your Paramedics is at Eosin?

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Re: Shadow Angelus

 

A couple of questions to those involved in the original Shadows Angelus I and II campaigns, I am pretty sure these can be answered without giving my potential player's any spoilers:

 

1. Were there any rules, like the resource pool rules, from Dark Champions for equipping the characters, or was it just handled at the discretion of the GM? Personally I am leaning toward the latter.

 

2. Were there any particular Damage Class, Active Point, Combat Value limits, etc. Imposed during character creation? Did these values change during the course of the campaign?

 

3. What were the Lace & Steel games all about? Was this some sort of gladitorial combat?

 

1) I think in SA I we could carry some stuff for free but magical and special items were paid for. In SA II everyone was "build to concept" so you paid for all of your special gear. Standard XSWAT gear (armored jacket, databand, skinsuit, boots, maser) was free.

 

I just checked, Chrysine didn't pay for any of her gear (Earthshaker 15mm revolver or her Tai-Dao/Kwan-Do), so I think only magical gear or extreme custom equipment cost points.

 

2) 60 AP for everyone but the mage, who was 50 AP. As for the rest... uhm... I think we all had NCM assumed unless the PC was an esper for cyborg.

 

3) Long answer: http://surbrook.devermore.net/worldbooks/kazei5/k5lns.html Sort answer: Yes. I also think I have another file, more geared to SA on L&S.

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Re: Shadow Angelus

 

Susano pretty much answered the question, but, yeah, PCs were handed a standard load of equipment with some options. Any personal equipment (such as Carpenter's sword or Jama's kris) were paid with points.

 

As for Lace & Steel, man, that bit has some looong legs. I remember when it first came up in the original K5 game, along with MaimTV. :D

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Re: Shadow Angelus

 

Just a question out of curiosity since it was brought up on this thread. What do you think your Paramedics is at Eosin?

 

By the skill roll table in Ultimate Skill, I'd say 14- roll on paramedics. I recently trained a nurse from another hospital who was sent to work with me specifically to learn more about trauma nursing. So saying "Very Skilled" isn't too much of a stretch but I know other nurses I consider to be as good as me even if they don't necessarily get the recognition that I get.... Geez, that must sound arrogant to those who don't know me.

 

[Not to say that I am not arrogant.. I am. A little. However, I try and maintain some perspective and humility. Did I mention that I am a math Tard and I suck at spelling? I'll stop before I spill all the dirty secrets.]

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Re: Shadow Angelus

 

I have spent a lot of time today reviewing proposed character histories from some of my players. Here is something that the people following this thread might be able to help me with...

 

One of the characters has included in his background a bombing that hit one of the regular police precincts in Angelus on April Fool's Day 2110. This bombing was carried out by an underground militant Clade rights faction. In the character's history this group is called RIGHTEOUS but no definition for that acronym is offered. I think it would be cool to either figure out a logical meaning behind that acronym or replace it with another one that does have a logical name behind it. You know something like FAD (Folks Against Discrimination) -- but something much cooler than that. Anyone care to make some suggestions?

 

[Not to say that I am not arrogant.. I am. A little. However' date= I try and maintain some perspective and humility. Did I mention that I am a math Tard and I suck at spelling? I'll stop before I spill all the dirty secrets.]

 

At least he quit making us call him Your Lordship at the gaming table. ;)

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Re: Shadow Angelus

 

Did you ever decide on point totals? I know I am the only one who replied (publicly) but I assume that Jeff and Audie have talked about their views.

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Re: Shadow Angelus

 

We will go with the 100 + 100 in Disads that we currently have. You can get the bonus XP using the DEX rebate rule. I think that I will use the generous XP option for the first several sessions as we experiment with what does and doesn't work. Of course extra-game work (like making city maps, writing side stories, etc.) will likely earn extra XP as well.

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Re: Shadow Angelus

 

I got a good start on the rough draft of the map tonight. You'll probably want to see where what fits as far as districts and review / suggest alterations. I've made a few suggestions on the locations of some key districts based on descriptions.

 

PS - I can move, delete, or alter the interior bodies of water ad lib.

 

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=31219&stc=1&d=1239170734

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Re: Shadow Angelus

 

I have spent a lot of time today reviewing proposed character histories from some of my players. Here is something that the people following this thread might be able to help me with...

 

One of the characters has included in his background a bombing that hit one of the regular police precincts in Angelus on April Fool's Day 2110. This bombing was carried out by an underground militant Clade rights faction. In the character's history this group is called RIGHTEOUS but no definition for that acronym is offered. I think it would be cool to either figure out a logical meaning behind that acronym or replace it with another one that does have a logical name behind it. You know something like FAD (Folks Against Discrimination) -- but something much cooler than that. Anyone care to make some suggestions?

 

 

 

At least he quit making us call him Your Lordship at the gaming table. ;)

 

 

RIGHTEOUS=RIGHTs Enable Our Unusual Slaves. The first thing that came to mind.

CES

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Re: Shadow Angelus

 

I got a good start on the rough draft of the map tonight. You'll probably want to see where what fits as far as districts and review / suggest alterations. I've made a few suggestions on the locations of some key districts based on descriptions.

 

PS - I can move, delete, or alter the interior bodies of water ad lib.

 

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=31219&stc=1&d=1239170734

 

Wouldn't a rough circle be more structurally stable?

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Re: Shadow Angelus

 

Wouldn't a rough circle be more structurally stable?

 

I am not sure which would be more structurally sound or really if either would. IMO, a round floating platform is highly improbable unless it was built in one primary construction phase to spec. As the city expands, the land area of the city would grow and I figure that all the bolted on pieces would be fairly ploygonal in nature. The end result would most likely be an irregular polygon.

 

It is pure speculation and extrapolation of current "floating platform" design. It could certainly be more roundish but typically the design elements have an idea behind them. I.E. the left side would be the industrial districts with the massive freighter docks. About 2 miles off shore are wave breakers which baffle the waters of the primary shipping area to prevent ship to shore disasters. The wave breakers would be easier to build and engineer in a relatively strait line rather than a long, irregular curve. The central canal feeds the secondary desalination tanks and facilitates interior shipping as needed. The "round lake" is a fresh water engineered resort area. The biggest interior body of water is the primary desalination tank and a 3 month supply of water in case of poor water quality (oil spill or worse). The two interior locks actually house floating lilypad farms for production of crops but they need their own water supply (because of how they are designed and because it breaks up the city and allows the eye something besides white to focus on).

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Re: Shadow Angelus

 

I would think as far as structurally sound goes anything will work in this day in age (or a future day in age for that matter).

 

Eosin what are you using to make this map?? Its nice

 

Once you get that pretty outline done I will work on getting streets put into it. Not that we need it, but gives me something to do.

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Re: Shadow Angelus

 

Wouldn't a rough circle be more structurally stable?
Based on this scale how wide are some of these channels? They seem excessively wide. I had sort of envisoned a more expansive, but narrower network of canals. Of course at this scale many smaller canals may not even be visible. The large north-south canal almost makes the city look fragile. I would imagine that the entire area is honeycombed with steam tunnel passages beneath the canals so in reality it would still be structurally sound. I tend to agree with Susano that either a rounder or more regualarly square shape would seem more logical. The isolated canal areas in the north are probably connected to the exterior by tunnels, tunnels maybe even large enought to provide passage of vessels.

 

One thing to think about is the "hydrolizers" that keep the city afloat and provide motive force. It would seem that these things can only keep a certain footprint afloat each. I envision the hydrolizers as being fairly large and each one supports a platform (perhaps round or square) these platforms are tied together to create the city. The question is then just how big are the hydrolizers and how much of an area to they support? One square mile each? Five square miles each? Is each platform roughly circular, square, triangular, etc.?

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Re: Shadow Angelus

 

Based on this scale how wide are some of these channels? They seem excessively wide. I had sort of envisoned a more expansive, but narrower network of canals. Of course at this scale many smaller canals may not even be visible.

 

Yeah, many (most) canals are not going to be visible. I cut down on the number of channels because I thought that you did not want them. :help: I can certainly add channels but scale is a problem - only the major ones should be shown. I can also tighten the big north to south channel. I figured that area for the industrial area so a largish (but not 2 mile) channel would work to help move around heavy equipment.

 

The large north-south canal almost makes the city look fragile. I would imagine that the entire area is honeycombed with steam tunnel passages beneath the canals so in reality it would still be structurally sound.

 

I actually figured they were connected under water - this is really a lock rather than a hole in the city.

 

I tend to agree with Susano that either a rounder or more regualarly square shape would seem more logical.

 

I can work on squaring or rounding it out. Your choice. I picked an organic shape to go with because it would appear organic rather than designed by some mook without an understanding of urban sprawl (hyro-urban sprawl even). I think too geometric and it will look much more like a spaceship than a city that grew from a few thousands to hundreds of millions. We have to find whatever makes you happy.

 

The isolated canal areas in the north are probably connected to the exterior by tunnels, tunnels maybe even large enought to provide passage of vessels.

 

I planned for them to be connected. There has to be several "build overs" and tunnels through out the city. A two mile under-urban tunnel/river is just too cool of an adventure site. Sounds like the perfect place for a spinner dog fight :help:

 

One thing to think about is the "hydrolizers" that keep the city afloat and provide motive force. It would seem that these things can only keep a certain footprint afloat each. I envision the hydrolizers as being fairly large and each one supports a platform (perhaps round or square) these platforms are tied together to create the city. The question is then just how big are the hydrolizers and how much of an area to they support? One square mile each? Five square miles each? Is each platform roughly circular, square, triangular, etc.?

 

I'm thinking about the hydrolizers and some pseudo-science to explain how they work.

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Re: Shadow Angelus

 

I sort envision something like Settlers of Catan. Each hydrolizer sits under a huge hex-shaped plate. In order to expand, you simply add hexes.

 

C'mon, what Hero player isn't going to like that idea? :D

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Re: Shadow Angelus

 

Is this more like what you were looking for?

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=31224&stc=1&d=1239208085

 

I'll need to re-draw it a bit but this is a down and dirty rough. More channels? Do you want them thinner? More rounding?

 

Hydrolizers you can make arguments that hydrolyzers hold up squares or circles. You'd end up with one goofy looking city if you based designs on either. You could make a city out of squares (think ma jong) but it would be extremely geometrical. You could make a city out of circles but there would be lots of holes in it or it would end up square as you overlapped.

 

Here are my thoughts on geopolitics and urban design in Angelus. First, if this is anything like Kazei 5 and the Neo York PD Inc - I'll assume massive corporate ownership as well as some form of city governance. You can't really design to 100% capacitance. More like 80% and there are some issues with failed projects (see Rho Sector). There are going to be open spaces for expansion within the city owned by people/corporations who just refuse to sell. Those areas will be water/water channels. Maybe even full on ocean - that was the idea behind the wider channels (that "land" was corporate owned but undeveloped).

 

[EDITED]Also, we will need to reduce the size of Angelus with the reduction in water space and the increased footprint. We could bump it back up by eating some space in the form of hydrolyzer intrusion but having such a regular dead space just doesn't feel quite right to me and prevents massive projects like the Supermall or even Lake Angelus.

 

I am going to assume that a hydrolyzer actually supports a circle since that makes more sense for load bearing. These would see 70-80% utilization and then be cross stabilized with other hydrolyzer platforms. Building in the round is hard. Sure, some buildings - corporate plazas and such - will be round. It is a sign of arrogance (if you can waste space, you're flaunting wealth). Mass residencies would be a polygon (rectangle or square) both for the interior utilization and exterior footprint. You can still have a rounded shape on the shore but that means under utilized space in a city twice as crowded as Tokyo. I'd think that each hydrolyzer must be a massive machine exerting some type of plasma based force field for buoyancy (that explains the rain). Think of a football stadium under each "platform" with significant portions extending into the surface. Maybe a platform is 1 mile across? Remember that there are 50 stories (100 stories?) of buildings on some of these bad boys. Hundreds of millions of tons without considering the organics (billions, trillions of tons?).

 

The plasma fields would need to interact or be completely transparent to one another.

 

The hydrolyzers could also be some sort of weak anti-grav field. To limit them you could basically require that they consume the energy output of a nuclear power plant... each.

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Re: Shadow Angelus

 

Yeah' date=' many (most) canals are not going to be visible. I cut down on the number of channels because I thought that you did not want them. :help: I can certainly add channels but scale is a problem - only the major ones should be shown. I can also tighten the big north to south channel. I figured that area for the industrial area so a largish (but not 2 mile) channel would work to help move around heavy equipment. [/quote']

 

When I saw the original Marco City map with the massive amounts of docks and canals, I panicked! I envisioned you making a map with that number of large canals. I agree that we will have several large "arterial" canals and that many smaller ones will branch from them. At this scale those smaller canals would not be visible.

 

It occurs to me the central lake, in addition to being senic might also work as part of the city's fresh water supply. The Hydrolizers cause a lot of rain which falls as fresh water and it collected here (this isn't Silent Mobius with its acid rain problems). That cuts down on the need for costly desalination. The channel that leads to the ocean acts as a flood channel allowing excess water to flow back to the ocean.

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Re: Shadow Angelus

 

Angelus Design

 

Wave Baffels I: Wave energy is both a threat and a boon to Angelus. The open sea can generate catastrophic wave force if allowed to strike the city unimpeded and would make ship docking a hazardous affair. The effects of storms or even extremely rough seas over time would critically weaken the structural integrity of the city leading to infrastructure failure. Wave baffles surrounding the city can mitigate much of the danger save in the most powerful of storms. The baffles are built to safely manage 20 meter waves while the city itself can withstand 10 meter wave crests without extensive damage although the city does issue a “High Wave Force Alert” to stop most naval & air traffic. Wave force reaching the city in excess of 20 meters is likely to weaken critical infrastructure despite the massive water displacement of the city. Primary damage sites would be shore line fracture points, underwater hull integrity, and the steam systems. Dynamic Structural Analysis (The DSA) performs electronic and manned sweeps of all affected areas after storms and as required by Angelus statutes.

 

Wave Baffels II: Wave energy is the most concentrated form of renewable energy. The primary function of the baffles remains the integrity of the city but harnessing the force of the ocean and converting it into electrical power is incentive enough to ensure that the system is well maintained. More than a 500 buoy “farms” are integrated into the baffle system that surrounds the city forming a 5,000 megawatt power station (roughly equal to a major nuclear reactor facility).

 

Garbage: Waste is a serious issue for a floating city with a population in the tens of millions. Each incorporated sector of the city is responsible for treating and recycling waste water – usually in massive treatment plants of an industrial park (some districts might contract this out to a separate sector). Biological waste is recycled into base amino acids using bacteria, fungi, or algae to remove or degrade the hazardous constituents. Non-recyclables are broken down using advanced boiler technology to recapture the energy in the form of escaping steam while chemical and nano-tech reduce whatever remains into a less toxic form. Toxic wastes that cannot be reduced further are shipped from the city but this amounts to a single waste barge each day. The Waste Management System of Angelus is an aging marvel of technology capable of breaking down nearly all of the waste generated by the city but is constantly undersized for the massive population.

 

Water: Save for air, water is the most critical component for human survival – thus it is one of the most important services provided by the city of Angelus. The ocean provides an endless supply of water but the city undertakes massive expense to desalinate and purify it for drinking. The bulk of this occurs in reverse osmosis drives that provide both salt and water (the salt goes to the nuclear powered hydrolyzers) . Fresh water is kept in massive desalination reservoirs which are maintained in each city sector. Each sector is required to keep enough water on hand to meet a 3 days supply of water for the residents (although this number sometimes dips as low as a few hours supply). The city itself maintains the enormous XXXX Reservoir which can supply water to the city in an emergency (water rationing is strictly enforced during these times). A secondary reservoir, Lake Angelus, is used as a beach resort but could be used for water if absolutely necessary.

 

Food: Angelus has a population exceeding that of many nations. Food is always an issue for the city. Some foods are shipped in, specifically meats. There simply is no room for herd animals nor would it be cost effective. Fish on the other hand is in abundant supply both natural and engineered. City regulations strictly monitor fish harvesting to prevent over fishing of the territorial waters meaning that most consumed fish are engineered and raised in the fisheries of the city. Still, there is a high demand for natural fish so there will always be fishermen who troll the waters around the city. Plant stuffs, fruits and vegetables, initially posed a problem for the city but modern designs and growth methods ensure that the city has adequate supply. Lilypad farms provide the bulk of the plant matter. The Lilypad farms biomimicry allows water to be absorbed and transported through the “leaves” providing an ample supply for the engineered farms all coming from sea water. Supplementing the massive farms are thousands of greenhouse buildings where exotic fruits and vegetables are grown for community residents. The greenhouse building must be built above the city canopy (30 stories?) to capture some natural sunlight in addition to their bio-lights. This makes location an issue in some sectors. Because of the heavy load (extra dirt and building re-enforcement) the greenhouses are kept under 30 stories. Wealthy residents may own a personal greenhouse building to grow foods to their cultural tastes.

 

Energy: Angelus uses more energy than just about any nation in the world with no fossil fuel resources. Consequently it is on the cutting edge of energy production, storage, and distribution. In addition to wave, tidal, and wind energy Angelus relies on nuclear fusion, ocean thermal energy conversion (OTEC), and even an antiquated class VI liquid metal fast breeding nuclear reactor. There was a second fission reactor but that was lost in the Omega Sector disaster. Currently, due to corporate resources there is an excess of energy production within Angelus. The city conducts brisk business with several nations selling power. Storage of power takes several forms including compressed water and hydrogen plasma storage. Plasma batteries power everything from weapons to emergency buildings. The hydrolyzers incorporate their own massive energy needs into their construction.

 

Salt Corrosion: Due to its nature as a rainy city floating on the worlds largest source of salt, Angelus is in constant state of rebuilding. Corrosion is endemic to the city despite newer treatments developed to inhibit sodium electron reduction in many metals. Dynamic Structural Analysis (The DSA) constantly monitors the key structures for corrosion damage and initiates repairs as needed – which they frequently are. Thus, the city seems to be in a constant state of repair.

 

More thoughts coming now that I know about the Hydrolyzers being a weak grave field.

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Re: Shadow Angelus

 

It occurs to me the central lake' date=' in addition to being senic might also work as part of the city's fresh water supply. The Hydrolizers cause a lot of rain which falls as fresh water and it collected here (this isn't Silent Mobius with its acid rain problems). That cuts down on the need for costly desalination. The channel that leads to the ocean acts as a flood channel allowing excess water to flow back to the ocean.[/quote']

 

See the notes I just posted... Lake Angelus (or whatever you end up calling it) is intended as the "emergency, emergency" water supply.

 

Good to see we are on the same track.

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Re: Shadow Angelus

 

Is this more like what you were looking for?

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=31224&stc=1&d=1239208085

 

I'll need to re-draw it a bit but this is a down and dirty rough. More channels? Do you want them thinner? More rounding?

I like this better.

Hydrolizers you can make arguments that hydrolyzers hold up squares or circles. You'd end up with one goofy looking city if you based designs on either. You could make a city out of squares (think ma jong) but it would be extremely geometrical. You could make a city out of circles but there would be lots of holes in it or it would end up square as you overlapped.

I think people would prefer something like your latest outline, it appears more natural and that would appeal to the populace more.

 

Here are my thoughts on geopolitics and urban design in Angelus. First, if this is anything like Kazei 5 and the Neo York PD Inc - I'll assume massive corporate ownership as well as some form of city governance. You can't really design to 100% capacitance. More like 80% and there are some issues with failed projects (see Rho Sector). There are going to be open spaces for expansion within the city owned by people/corporations who just refuse to sell. Those areas will be water/water channels. Maybe even full on ocean - that was the idea behind the wider channels (that "land" was corporate owned but undeveloped).

 

I am going to assume that a hydrolyzer actually supports a circle since that makes more sense for load bearing. These would see 70-80% utilization and then be cross stabilized with other hydrolyzer platforms. Building in the round is hard. Sure, some buildings - corporate plazas and such - will be round. It is a sign of arrogance (if you can waste space, you're flaunting wealth). Mass residencies would be a polygon (rectangle or square) both for the interior utilization and exterior footprint. You can still have a rounded shape on the shore but that means under utilized space in a city twice as crowded as Tokyo. I'd think that each hydrolyzer must be a massive machine exerting some type of plasma based force field for buoyancy (that explains the rain). Think of a football stadium under each "platform" with significant portions extending into the surface. Maybe a platform is 1 mile across? Remember that there are 50 stories (100 stories?) of buildings on some of these bad boys. Hundreds of millions of tons without considering the organics (billions, trillions of tons?).

 

The plasma fields would need to interact or be completely transparent to one another.

 

The hydrolyzers could also be some sort of weak anti-grav field. To limit them you could basically require that they consume the energy output of a nuclear power plant... each.

You make some really good points. Since I see the logic for the wider channels I don't have as much a problem with being big as I did. We just need to keep in mind that since the majority of the populace uses ground transport and/or the previously mentioned commuter tubeways, these channels are going to have a good number of bridges and subsurface tunnels connecting either shore. Of course these bridges would be too small to show up at this scale.

 

Plasma fields mean a lot of heat thus a lot of evaporation and that handles the rain issue nicely I imagine that there are some pretty large steam chimmneys in this city. Most would probably be near the edges of the city but some are going to have to be in the interior. Perhaps they can shunt the steam to the downwind sides of the city at will in an effort to prevent the city being as fogged in all the time.

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Re: Shadow Angelus

 

Remember that the city is capable of slow movement and does move seasonally to place the city in favorable weather patterns. I see the city existing in the area around San Fransico during the Summer and heading down to around LA or San Diego during the winter months. The ability to move also allows the city to monitor developing weather patterns and move from areas that are predicted to be subject to especailly high waves.

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