PhantomGM2602 Posted April 13, 2009 Report Share Posted April 13, 2009 Phantom GM here. been checking out the virtues of the 6th ed system and i'm wondering about some things: Are there going to be any anime genres to be roleplayed in the system? If so for what gaming genre? Those are my questions; what about the rest of you?:cool: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost-angel Posted April 14, 2009 Report Share Posted April 14, 2009 Re: How about anime Campaigns? Do you mean are there going to be any Anime Genres outlined in 6E? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
braincraft Posted April 14, 2009 Report Share Posted April 14, 2009 I would so rock a Potemayo campaign I'm never sure what people mean when they cite 'anime' as a 'genre'. Are you talking about Ghost in the Shell? Slayers? Maison Ikkoku? Gundam? Berserk? One Piece? Toaru Majutsu no Index? ... Potemayo? I'd think that, say, Ouran Host Club would be a somewhat awkward setting to game in using HERO, but you could probably do it if you really, really wanted to. If you mean, can you play in Japanese? I don't know if there's going to be support in other languages. You might have to settle for a fansubbed version. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost-angel Posted April 14, 2009 Report Share Posted April 14, 2009 Re: How about anime Campaigns? to be fair, the OP used "genres" plural - I take that to mean they are fully aware Anime is a medium. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrosshairCollie Posted April 14, 2009 Report Share Posted April 14, 2009 Re: How about anime Campaigns? to be fair' date=' the OP used "genres" plural - I take that to mean they are fully aware Anime is a medium.[/quote'] I think of it more as a style. Radio, TV, movies, books are media. Anyway, anime already fits into established genres. You got horror anime, superhero anime, space anime ... it's just a matter of visualizing the characters drawn really ugly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost-angel Posted April 14, 2009 Report Share Posted April 14, 2009 Re: How about anime Campaigns? There's actually a lot more to it than that. Anime also brings with it the baggage of Japanese culture tropes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spence Posted April 14, 2009 Report Share Posted April 14, 2009 Re: How about anime Campaigns? Genre is defined as: a category of artistic, musical, or literary composition characterized by a particular style, form, or content. Just as Painting is a Genre of Art and there are five defined Genres of Painting History Painting Portraits Genre-painting Landscapes Still Life Paintings can also belong to other genre’s such as (the first five of a list of over 200 at an art museums site): Abramtsevo Abstract Art Abstract Expressionism Academic Art Aeropittura Yes, a painting can be both a Landscape and Abstract. Anime is indeed a genre. Just like Painting, it is a medium that has graduated to an actual definable genre. It is a sub Animation which is a sub of Film. As GA points out Anime carries distinct influences from Japan. But there is more to it than that as the use of Animation (and Anime) has spread around the world. Some stuff simply mimics the Japanese form/styles, but other are pretty original and while they have a style of their own, they definitely are Anime, not kiddy shows. Within the Anime world they have many sub-genre’s. Anime has all the regulars such as Horror, Drama, SciFi etc. But they also have a few that are distinctly anime. Many people will argue that it’s a medium, not a genre. But they ignore the basic idea of what a genre is. It is a category characterized by a Form, Style or Content. Just like painting went form just a medium to an art that was later broken down to multiple accepted genres, so have movies and now animation. There are even entertainment site out there that do not acknowledge Science Fiction as a genre on TV. SciFi is lumped into Drama or whatever they thought was closest. Or better yet the people who lump fantasy and scifi together as the same thing, book companies are notorious for not being able to actually tell what genre a book belongs to. But then that is because they are not wrong. The definition of a genre is pretty flexible. Most of the people who stamp their feet and decree that ‘anime is NOT a genre’ are only doing it because they have lost the whole flat earth thing and need a new thing to ‘be right’ about something . I was first introduced to the great 'art genre' war at a local college picking up may girlfriend a few years ago. The two film instructor/profs (or whatever they were calling themselves) for film were at near blows over scifi/fantasy qualifying. One insisting it was not a genre, that it all fell into the ‘real’ genres of Drama or Comedy. For myself I used to just think it was a cartoons. Now that I have actually watched it, or watched enough to tell what is different, I can pick out the differences. All Anime is not from Japan any more. I’ve seen good Anime from Korea and France as well. And the French show was definitely not a cartoon. This arguement will go on at least as long as the one where docters insisted leaches and cutting holes in the skull to let loose evil spirirts were viable cures for insanity. @PhantomGM6101 IIRC Hero and company are of the crowd that do not think Anime is a genre or that there are Anime genres at all. Plus I believe Steve has indicated he isn't too keen on anime and doesn't think the amount of research that would be required to make a 'genre book' would be worth it. My personal belief is that a Anime book along the lines of Teen Champions would be great. But I was one of a small minority on the boards who felt that way. From everything I have seen or heard, the possibility of a Anime Supplement for any version of Hero from Hero itself is pretty slim. As I understand it an updated Kazai 5 will be releasing soon. If you are interested in Anime transitions that may be of interest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost-angel Posted April 14, 2009 Report Share Posted April 14, 2009 Re: How about anime Campaigns? Anime is a Genre in the same way Hollywood, Bollywood and HongKongFilms are all Genres of Film. Technically correct terms - and utterly uesless for conveying exactly what's being presented. It's why I don't like using "Genre" for such massively broad categories. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BNakagawa Posted April 14, 2009 Report Share Posted April 14, 2009 Re: How about anime Campaigns? For myself I used to just think it was a cartoons. Now that I have actually watched it, or watched enough to tell what is different, I can pick out the differences. All Anime is not from Japan any more. I’ve seen good Anime from Korea and France as well. And the French show was definitely not a cartoon. Anime is a japanese loanword and anime comes from Japan. the same way Champagne comes from France. There are sparkling wines from places other than France that are chemically identical to French Champagne, but they are not Champagne. There are other animated films from places other than Japan, using similar stylistic elements, but they are not anime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spence Posted April 14, 2009 Report Share Posted April 14, 2009 Re: How about anime Campaigns? Anime is a Genre in the same way Hollywood, Bollywood and HongKongFilms are all Genres of Film. Technically correct terms - and utterly uesless for conveying exactly what's being presented. It's why I don't like using "Genre" for such massively broad categories. A perfectly reasonable point of view. Especially since you are one of the few that actually basis it on an actual reason rather than a knee jerk. Plus IIRC I have never seen you decree that someone was obviously wrong and proceed to beat your choice into their head And one I would have shared a couple years ago. These days as I view more and more shows, I have come to recognize the differences as they are defined within the community so when I ask about a show and I am told it is a ‘Shojo Magical Girl’ or a ‘Harem’ I know exactly what to expect or in this case avoid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrosshairCollie Posted April 15, 2009 Report Share Posted April 15, 2009 Re: How about anime Campaigns? There's actually a lot more to it than that. Anime also brings with it the baggage of Japanese culture tropes. another good reason to avoid it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbywolfe Posted April 15, 2009 Report Share Posted April 15, 2009 Re: How about anime Campaigns? I think of it more as a style. Radio, TV, movies, books are media. Anyway, anime already fits into established genres. You got horror anime, superhero anime, space anime ... it's just a matter of visualizing the characters drawn really ugly. another good reason to avoid it. Little xenophobia there chief? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susano Posted April 17, 2009 Report Share Posted April 17, 2009 Re: How about anime Campaigns? Little xenophobia there chief? More like a lot. And for what it's worth, Kazei 5 Second Edition will be released for 6th Edition at (I hope) GenCon. It borrows a great deal for assorted near-future cyberpunk anime such as Appleseed, Battle Angel, Bubblegum Crisis, Ghost in the Shell, and Silent Mobius. And if you don't like anime, you still might find it a useful resource of near-future technology, cyberware, weapons, armor, and the like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hopcroft Posted April 18, 2009 Report Share Posted April 18, 2009 Re: How about anime Campaigns? Anime is not a matter of genre. It is a matter of style, and even there there are many styles within the style if you know what I mean. Even within subgenres like mecha anime (and remember, the Japanese use mecha for any sort of vehicles from cars to megastarships), you have serious war stories, superheroic extravagant adventures, romantic fantasies, slyly satiric comedies and everything in between. (There are even retellings of Shakespearean plots that use mecha, just as there are others that use magic). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeropoint Posted April 21, 2009 Report Share Posted April 21, 2009 Re: How about anime Campaigns? Shakespeare. With mecha! Sign me up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spence Posted April 21, 2009 Report Share Posted April 21, 2009 Re: How about anime Campaigns? Anime is not a matter of genre. It is a matter of style, and even there there are many styles within the style if you know what I mean. err... the definition of genre is: a category of artistic, musical, or literary composition characterized by a particular style, form, or content. Anime is a genre by definition. The style that makes Anime different from US or European animation is the difference of style that defines the genre. Just like in paintings. If a painting is an abstract painting of a landscape, it would belong to two genres, Landscape and Abstract Art. Even though its medium (defined as : a mode of artistic expression or communication, plural media) is just paint. So in effect you said: "Anime is not a matter of style. It is a matter of style, and even there there are many styles within the style if you know what I mean." or maybe "Anime is not a matter of genre. It is a matter of genre, and even there there are many genres within the genre if you know what I mean." you can spend hours searching and come up with extensive lists of genres from multiple Art related organizations, all of them 'defining' their definition of real genres. The most list I found to date had over 200. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spence Posted April 21, 2009 Report Share Posted April 21, 2009 Re: I would so rock a Potemayo campaign I'm never sure what people mean when they cite 'anime' as a 'genre'. Well the OP said 'anime genres' for one, as in plural. But they were probably referring to one of the unique genres not generally found in other media. Some are unique to Anime, some are shared with other formats of art such as literature and film. Just as the book Dracula and the movie Dracula may share horror, they each have a distinct 'style, form, or content' that prevents me from ever confusing the moving film with a paper book on the shelf. Nope you won't see me leave a theater saying 'that was a great book' when referring to the film. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeropoint Posted April 22, 2009 Report Share Posted April 22, 2009 Re: How about anime Campaigns? Well, the problem with trying to define an "anime genre" is that you have to include everything from Grave of the Fireflies to Excel Saga and everything in between AND off on several different axes--by the time you include it all, there's not much it all has in common but some general elements of art style, and some elements of Japanese culture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spence Posted April 22, 2009 Report Share Posted April 22, 2009 Re: How about anime Campaigns? Well' date=' the problem with trying to define an "anime genre" is that you have to include everything from Grave of the Fireflies to Excel Saga and everything in between AND off on several different axes--by the time you include it all, there's not much it all has in common but some general elements of art style, and some elements of Japanese culture. So I guess books don't have genres either. I mean by the time you include them all, there's not much it all has in common but some general elements of writing style and maybe some local culture influence. And let's not even bring up live movies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbywolfe Posted April 22, 2009 Report Share Posted April 22, 2009 Re: How about anime Campaigns? So I guess books don't have genres either. I mean by the time you include them all' date=' there's not much it all has in common but some general elements of writing style and maybe some local culture influence. [/quote'] “So I guess books don't have genres either”. That’s the whole point. Books do have different genres, dozens of broad ones and hundred if not thousands of more detailed ones. You are kind of making our point for us. Most of us would consider "books" and "movies" mediums, not genres. Yes, I know they are genres in the broadest definition of the word, but they are not genres as the term is commonly used among gamers. They do not categorize enough to be helpful in this conversation, and neither does “anime”. That is why constantly insisting that “anime is a genre no matter what you say, so there” is not constructive or helpful. I guess you could play an “anime” game just like you could play a “TV” game, but then don’t complain when the GM crushes your magic girl with a giant mecha right after the pokemon attack. On the other hand if we look at more defined “genres” such as supers, fantasy, pulp, horror, et cetera (and I admit these are still very broad categories) we can get at least some idea of what the game will actually be like. You can further define the campaign by adding “anime” to any of those genres. I guess my point is that every genre Hero already supports can be run as “anime” so arguing semantics instead of trying to answer the OP is just kind of pointless and this conversation will just keep going in circles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spence Posted April 22, 2009 Report Share Posted April 22, 2009 Re: How about anime Campaigns? “So I guess books don't have genres either”. That’s the whole point. Books do have different genres, dozens of broad ones and hundred if not thousands of more detailed ones. You are kind of making our point for us. Most of us would consider "books" and "movies" mediums, not genres. Yes, I know they are genres in the broadest definition of the word, but they are not genres as the term is commonly used among gamers. They do not categorize enough to be helpful in this conversation, and neither does “anime”. That is why constantly insisting that “anime is a genre no matter what you say, so there” is not constructive or helpful. I guess you could play an “anime” game just like you could play a “TV” game, but then don’t complain when the GM crushes your magic girl with a giant mecha right after the pokemon attack. On the other hand if we look at more defined “genres” such as supers, fantasy, pulp, horror, et cetera (and I admit these are still very broad categories) we can get at least some idea of what the game will actually be like. You can further define the campaign by adding “anime” to any of those genres. I guess my point is that every genre Hero already supports can be run as “anime” so arguing semantics instead of trying to answer the OP is just kind of pointless and this conversation will just keep going in circles. Actually you proved me correct because you cannot name a single genre in any media that cannot be 'disproved' in the same way. By your 'proof' no genre exists because 'any genre' bears a resemblance to anything. The reality is not that "They do not categorize enough to be helpful in this conversation", but that you and people like you lack the knowledge of the subject to draw meaningful understanding and really don't care to try. Not that you have to. I think that most 'modern art' is basically crap and the so called artsy lingo style genre banter is just a snow job to sucker the gullable into paying $ for garbage. But I don't run around telling art fans they are idiots for buying blots of spilled paint. A genre is a distinct style or form. When I talk with people I know into Anime about a new show and ask what genre it is, I get an answer and get a clear picture of what to expect. It took me a while to understand the differences. Your statement "....but then don’t complain when the GM crushes your magic girl with a giant mecha right after the pokemon attack" is so...I don't know dumb I can't really even understand it. You just strung together a bunch of words and called it a sentence. It isn't even coherent. You are really out there. I tell you what, when someone asks for information related to Anime, do what I do when I come across threads have subjects I know nothing about or intensely dislike. Ignore them or just lurk. Since you obviously don't like the subject and obviously know very little if anything about it not gathered from 5 minutes on Wiki, why are you even here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbywolfe Posted April 22, 2009 Report Share Posted April 22, 2009 Re: How about anime Campaigns? Your statement "....but then don’t complain when the GM crushes your magic girl with a giant mecha right after the pokemon attack" is so...I don't know dumb I can't really even understand it. You just strung together a bunch of words and called it a sentence. It isn't even coherent. The point of that statement was this, all of those elements I named are common to anime. Saying "I'm in an anime campaign" does very little to explain what the campaign is like. However "Magic girl" would generally fit into Urban Fantasy, a "genre" we already have pre-defined within the Hero System. Giant Mechs would usually fit withing Science Fiction, an "genre" we already have pre-defined within the Hero System. A true "Anime" source book would need to have most of the information from Star Hero, Fantasy Hero, Urban Fantasy Hero, The Ultimate Vehicle, Dark Champions, and maybe even regular Champions, plus an extensive section on Japanese culture, tropes common to all anime, etc. This is not feasible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eosin Posted April 23, 2009 Report Share Posted April 23, 2009 Re: How about anime Campaigns? To the OP: Dark Champions: The Animated Series should work and I don't see any reason why it would not be supported but you won't see the sourcebook for awhile. I think Susano mentioned Kazei 5 as a sourcebook for a dark champions/esper/cybernetics style game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NuSoardGraphite Posted April 23, 2009 Report Share Posted April 23, 2009 Re: How about anime Campaigns? Aside from something like a Mecha Hero genre book (or Ultimate Mecha sourcebook) the HERO System doesn't need an anime genre book. Anime is far too broad a subject to cover simply in one supplement and since it covers the gamut from Fantasy to Science Fiction and everything in between, its more of a consciouss decision on the part of the GM and Players to taylor their game session in the style of an Anime rather than to configure the rules to simulate said style. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hopcroft Posted April 24, 2009 Report Share Posted April 24, 2009 Re: How about anime Campaigns? I would like to have seen a Mecha Hero book, but I resigned myself very early on to it not getting done. I think that the fact that everything in Hero is purchased as effects rather than as components makes it a bit of a hard sell for gearheads who thrive on things like Mekton. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.