Supreme Serpent Posted June 10, 2009 Report Share Posted June 10, 2009 Re: Top 5 Champs books of all time Of real interest to me are the two votes that went to the 4th Edition Viper book that I despise so much. Can I ask those two voters to tell me what I missed? What was I doing wrong that made me hate this book? I didn't vote for it as one of my top 5, but I liked it. I had some of the same problems you had but I just ignored or modified those parts. Ignore the AI and snake god stuff, ignore the stock supervillains, ignore or scale down the guns and gear. Thankfully with Champions scaling things up or down is pretty easy. The stuff about goals, recruiting and so on I liked, and I think the book was good maybe not so much as a VIPER book per se, but as a "stuff to consider when making an agent organization" book. Of course the old Super Agents book is also good for that. And it had a cool cover. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTaylor Posted June 10, 2009 Report Share Posted June 10, 2009 Re: Top 5 Champs books of all time I loved the way Viper was organized, I liked the art, I liked the suggested scenarios, the base construction notes, the campaign ideas, and the equipment lists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenn Posted June 10, 2009 Report Share Posted June 10, 2009 Re: Top 5 Champs books of all time Aaron Allston's Strikeforce Kingdom of Champions To Serve and Protect Champions 4e (BBB), even with it's amazing dissolving binding. When I can think of a fifth book that I have as many positive memories of as these, I'll let you know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starblaze Posted June 11, 2009 Report Share Posted June 11, 2009 Re: Top 5 Champs books of all time I loved the way Viper was organized' date=' I liked the art, I liked the suggested scenarios, the base construction notes, the campaign ideas, and the equipment lists.[/quote'] I thought the Fifth edition version of VIPER was done much better than the last one. It had a better backstory and not as many supervillians as the last one did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drunkonduty Posted June 11, 2009 Report Share Posted June 11, 2009 Re: Top 5 Champs books of all time 1: VIPER: Coils of the Serpent. Loved it. Not all of the back story (Serpent Gods and such) but back story is easy enough to change. But great detailing of the organisation and the people who go into it. And the toys! Oh the toys! Got me back into Champions after a long break. 2: Pulp Hero. I love pulp. 3: Gadgets and Gear. Now when someone says I want a Gadget Pool I can say 'Sure. Get your gadgets from this book, please.' No time wasted while people do the sums. 4: The Mystic World. I just the idea of higher planes being based on concepts from William Blake. 5: Villainy Amok. A great look at some classic tropes. A good read in and of itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balabanto Posted June 11, 2009 Report Share Posted June 11, 2009 Re: Top 5 Champs books of all time I would rather eat glass than give any of the VIPER sourcebooks more than a wink and a nod. They've ALL been bad. All of them. Who cares about the fluff when the characters in every version of this sourcebook have been excessively overpointed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susano Posted June 15, 2009 Report Share Posted June 15, 2009 Re: Top 5 Champs books of all time I think it's the timeline that sold me. In addition to giving the actual history of WWII, it gave a side-by-side timeline of how that history could've included superheroes AND a timeline of "uh-oh, the Nazi's won" for those pesky parallel timelines. And while I think the heroes and villains provided were a tad too tongue-in-cheek, they were all solid characters. If you wanted to take your WWII campaign a bit more seriously, you could drop the "Doberman" angle and still have a pretty sharp Anubis-empowered villain. Aside from that, they were awesome, top to bottom. Dr. Bonsai and Origami Girl, the Ex-Patriots, Veltro... They've all stuck in my mind as iconic as Grond and Foxbat. All from just one book. As an added bonus, it was a nice primer on life during the war too, just for education's sake. And Madame Moonlight had one of the best costumes, ever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susano Posted June 15, 2009 Report Share Posted June 15, 2009 Re: Top 5 Champs books of all time Any book with my name on the cover. What? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GestaltBennie Posted June 15, 2009 Report Share Posted June 15, 2009 Re: Top 5 Champs books of all time Any book with my name on the cover. What? There aren't enough of those to fill the list. Mike. So get writing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubba smith Posted June 15, 2009 Report Share Posted June 15, 2009 Re: Top 5 Champs books of all time Any book with my name on the cover. What? that would be ninja hero 5E Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GestaltBennie Posted June 15, 2009 Report Share Posted June 15, 2009 Re: Top 5 Champs books of all time that would be nunja hero 5E And the two Asian Bestiaries and Kazei Five. That makes four, unless I'm forgetting something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susano Posted June 15, 2009 Report Share Posted June 15, 2009 Re: Top 5 Champs books of all time And the two Asian Bestiaries and Kazei Five. That makes four' date=' unless I'm forgetting something. [/quote'] Nope. And I have contribution credits in The Ultimate Energy Projector and The Ultimate Metamorph. Hopefully by this time next year, I'll have a fifth book (and some more credits). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sketchpad Posted June 15, 2009 Report Share Posted June 15, 2009 Re: Top 5 Champs books of all time If that's the case, can I count all the books I did some art in, including DH & Gestalt? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megaplayboy Posted June 15, 2009 Report Share Posted June 15, 2009 Re: Top 5 Champs books of all time Hmm. Ultimate Martial Artist Strike Force--showed us how an organic supers campaign run by a high profile GM developed and how everything flowed together well. Mystic Masters--the first real magic sourcebook for Champs. Classic Organizations (a good catchall for several 3rd ed. orgs books), which, IIRC, included some mammoth combat scenario... I'll put in a vote for Wrath of the Seven Horsemen, as well, though any number of adventures could have sufficed. I just liked the feel of it, and it introduced a truly terrifying villain team to the CU (which, sadly, has never been re-introduced...I assume there must be some authorship issues). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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