NestorDRod Posted July 28, 2009 Report Share Posted July 28, 2009 Re: 6E Rules changes confirmed so far I'll give you The Fantasy Trip but how the heck does any pre-1981 Traveller get to be considered a point-buy system with character flaws? Let me slightly correct myself. Traveller had a skill-buy system, or I guess even more accurately a skill-selection system. The "points" were more years of experience than direct-point allotment but the choice was still in the player's control. Or you can blame my flub on a combination of having only a couple hours of sleep and possessing a Swiss-cheese memory. It is true, though, that Traveller was my escape from the D&D mindset. TFT shoved the body into the casket and Champions nailed the lid shut. I never looked back after that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjcurrie Posted July 28, 2009 Report Share Posted July 28, 2009 Re: 6E Rules changes confirmed so far Let me slightly correct myself. Traveller had a skill-buy system, or I guess even more accurately a skill-selection system. The "points" were more years of experience than direct-point allotment but the choice was still in the player's control. Or you can blame my flub on a combination of having only a couple hours of sleep and possessing a Swiss-cheese memory. It is true, though, that Traveller was my escape from the D&D mindset. TFT shoved the body into the casket and Champions nailed the lid shut. I never looked back after that. Once you hit Books 4 and 5, Mercenary and High Guard, respectively, you got some choice in a few areas. But generally, the most choice you had was what table you rolled on to get your skill for that term. However, I know some GMs would just let you choose a skill rather than roll for it, so perhaps you playerd with a house rule like that. Traveller was my escape from AD&D too. In fact, I had disliked my AD&D experience so much that I may have never role-played again if a roommate hadn't talked me into playing in his Traveller campaign. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Main Man Posted July 28, 2009 Report Share Posted July 28, 2009 Re: 6E Rules changes confirmed so far So after thirty (almost) years' date=' Hero System finally gets it's own version of the Players Handbook and a Dungeon Master's Guide.[/quote'] It's more like GURPS 4e, since the PHB and DMG also have the Monster Manual, a core component that HERO won't have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Netzilla Posted July 28, 2009 Report Share Posted July 28, 2009 Re: 6E Rules changes confirmed so far It's more like GURPS 4e' date=' since the PHB and DMG also have the Monster Manual, a core component that HERO won't have.[/quote'] Hero System Beastiary, Conquerers, Killers & Crooks, etc. Yes, I know you said core, but I couldn't resist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucius Posted July 28, 2009 Report Share Posted July 28, 2009 Re: 6E Rules changes confirmed so far I'll give you The Fantasy Trip but how the heck does any pre-1981 Traveller get to be considered a point-buy system with character flaws? And I'll only halfway give him The Fantasy Trip, because it was a point buy system but did not have disadvantages. It also still had a kind of Class sytem (one was either a wizard or not.) Lucius Alexander Alexander's distinction: There are two kinds of people in the world. People with a palindromedary, and people without. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveZilla Posted July 29, 2009 Report Share Posted July 29, 2009 Re: 6E Rules changes confirmed so far I don't need them. I just think they should be in there for people who haven't played previous editions. Still' date=' no big deal. I think most people play without minis anyway.[/quote'] I not only enjoy playing with miniatures, I insist on it for any group-on-group combats (actually, just about all combats). I like to consider myself reasonably smart, but I can't hold the locations of 10-20 "points-of-interest" in my head simultaneously. A crudly-drawn map with something (like coins, dice, and minis) to represent characters & significant moveable objects makes it immensly clearer for me. Which means I don't have to keep asking the GM "Where is X? How far away is Z from Y?" like a sub's sonar pinging away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tasha Posted July 29, 2009 Report Share Posted July 29, 2009 Re: 6E Rules changes confirmed so far I not only enjoy playing with miniatures' date=' I insist on it for any group-on-group combats (actually, just about all combats). I like to consider myself reasonably smart, but I can't hold the locations of 10-20 "points-of-interest" in my head simultaneously. A crudly-drawn map with something (like coins, dice, and minis) to represent characters & significant moveable objects makes it immensly clearer for me. Which means I don't have to keep asking the GM "Where is X? How far away is Z from Y?" like a sub's sonar pinging away.[/quote'] I don't think I could play a RPG without minis. In fact I tend to always find minis for my characters and for other characters I find memorable. Tasha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NestorDRod Posted July 29, 2009 Report Share Posted July 29, 2009 Re: 6E Rules changes confirmed so far And I'll only halfway give him The Fantasy Trip, because it was a point buy system but did not have disadvantages. It also still had a kind of Class sytem (one was either a wizard or not.) It absolutely did. While the basic books (Melee and Wizard) did not have any disadvantages, the full game indeed did allow you to define flaws that would give you back points. And the distinction between magic-users and non was simply a matter of buying the necessary skills/abilities. Keep in mind, TFT was to all purposes GURPS v0.1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archermoo Posted July 29, 2009 Report Share Posted July 29, 2009 Re: 6E Rules changes confirmed so far I don't think I could play a RPG without minis. In fact I tend to always find minis for my characters and for other characters I find memorable. Tasha I could (and have) played RPGs without minis of some kind. Though I prefer not to do combat without minis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tasha Posted July 29, 2009 Report Share Posted July 29, 2009 Re: 6E Rules changes confirmed so far I could (and have) played RPGs without minis of some kind. Though I prefer not to do combat without minis. OOOOkkkkaaaayyy, minor technicality. Yeah, I can RP without Minis. Combat without minis just stinks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archermoo Posted July 29, 2009 Report Share Posted July 29, 2009 Re: 6E Rules changes confirmed so far OOOOkkkkaaaayyy' date=' minor technicality. Yeah, I can RP without Minis. Combat without minis just stinks.[/quote'] Sorry, meant to include a smiley in that. (Though I have known people that liked having mini's even for roleplaying sessions...) And much agreementness! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemming Posted July 29, 2009 Report Share Posted July 29, 2009 Re: 6E Rules changes confirmed so far *Imagines Tasha & Archermoo holding up minis and acting like the minis are talking* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archermoo Posted July 29, 2009 Report Share Posted July 29, 2009 Re: 6E Rules changes confirmed so far *Imagines Tasha & Archermoo holding up minis and acting like the minis are talking* Heh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tasha Posted July 29, 2009 Report Share Posted July 29, 2009 Re: 6E Rules changes confirmed so far *Imagines Tasha & Archermoo holding up minis and acting like the minis are talking* Nah, that's what actionfigures are for... LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GamePhil Posted July 29, 2009 Report Share Posted July 29, 2009 Re: 6E Rules changes confirmed so far Nah' date=' that's what actionfigures are for... LOL [/quote'] They're not dolls, they're... Wait, that's right, nevermind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucius Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 Re: 6E Rules changes confirmed so far It absolutely did. While the basic books (Melee and Wizard) did not have any disadvantages, the full game indeed did allow you to define flaws that would give you back points. And the distinction between magic-users and non was simply a matter of buying the necessary skills/abilities. Keep in mind, TFT was to all purposes GURPS v0.1. Mr. Rod, I hate to flatly contradict someone, but - no. Not the Fantasy Trip I knew and played. There was, I think, a Dragon magazine article that suggested how Disadvantages could be taken for extra points, which for all I know may have been the idea's very first appearance in role playing, but it was not in Melee, Wizard, nor In The Labyrinth (the book that rounded out the combat and magic systems in Melee and Wizard and made it a full fledged role playing game.) And the distinction between "Heroes" and "Wizards" was that the former had to pay triple cost for spells, and the latter had to pay double for most (not all) skills. So while you could technically have a hero with several spells or a wizard with no spells and only skills, it was pretty self-defeating to do so. It never even occurred to me to try it, and I usually think of self-defeating character concepts like that. Lucius Alexander The palindromedary notes that Lucius did like the idea of a hero with a single basic Illusion spell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NestorDRod Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 Re: 6E Rules changes confirmed so far Mr. Rod, I hate to flatly contradict someone, but - no. Not the Fantasy Trip I knew and played. There was, I think, a Dragon magazine article that suggested how Disadvantages could be taken for extra points, which for all I know may have been the idea's very first appearance in role playing, but it was not in Melee, Wizard, nor In The Labyrinth (the book that rounded out the combat and magic systems in Melee and Wizard and made it a full fledged role playing game.) And the distinction between "Heroes" and "Wizards" was that the former had to pay triple cost for spells, and the latter had to pay double for most (not all) skills. So while you could technically have a hero with several spells or a wizard with no spells and only skills, it was pretty self-defeating to do so. It never even occurred to me to try it, and I usually think of self-defeating character concepts like that. Lucius Alexander The palindromedary notes that Lucius did like the idea of a hero with a single basic Illusion spell. You're welcome to disagree, but I have the books to back me up (still have them after all these years). I'll gladly go down to the basement and dig though the boxes for them if you need specific page numbers. And, yes, I do recall the change in skill and spell costs for character types, but to call them "Classes" is, IMO, stretching the term quite a bit. As for self-defeating? I suppose if one's intent was to build some uber-efficient character, yes. If you were building a specific concept, it certainly got you there a hell of a lot easier than D&D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest steamteck Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 Re: 6E Rules changes confirmed so far Lucius memory matches my own . I even remember the dragon article but I'm pretty sure it was after 1st edition Champions. I seem to remember thinking when I read it, "Ah, like champions". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megaplayboy Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 Re: 6E Rules changes confirmed so far There was a superhero game with a point system somewhat similar to Champions out at roughly the same time or possibly somewhat earlier. It might have been called "Supergame" (not Superworld (the Chaosium one), I'm absolutely sure of that). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordGhee Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 Re: 6E Rules changes confirmed so far From the dustbin of my mind out at the time of the fantasy trip, villains and vigilantes not at all familiar with it Lord Ghee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordGhee Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 Re: 6E Rules changes confirmed so far Went to v and v site by way of google and superhero 2044 was first ha Lord Ghee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klaus Mogensen Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 Re: 6E Rules changes confirmed so far I think the first point-buy system was Ysgarth (1979). I don't know if it had disadvantages, though. - Klaus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NestorDRod Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 Re: 6E Rules changes confirmed so far Went to v and v site by way of google and superhero 2044 was first ha Lord Ghee Got that book. Interesting setting. Calling it a RPG is extremely generous, though. It was totally devoid of any rules. Really, their idea of creating a character was "Come up with what he can do then make up some way to play it." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NestorDRod Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 Re: 6E Rules changes confirmed so far I think the first point-buy system was Ysgarth (1979). I don't know if it had disadvantages, though. - Klaus God, Ysgarth. What a memory. It was first put out by Ragnarok Games, who also published Space Quest, a SF RPG game that, er, borrowed a lot of concepts from D&D. I knew one of the authors and played in a lot of games he ran. Man, do I have stories about those games. Edit: Jeez, it looks like it's time for me to check in at the old folks' home. It wasn't Ragnarok, it was Tyr; dug up my poor dog-eared, beaten up copy of the game to confirm. I remember coming across Ysgarth when playing Space Quest, though; perhaps one of the authors also wrote for it. Too many years, not enough brain cells. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GamePhil Posted July 31, 2009 Report Share Posted July 31, 2009 Re: 6E Rules changes confirmed so far God, Ysgarth. What a memory. Wait, did you just compare Ysgarth to being born, or am I reading a movie reference into your statement that wasn't intended? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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