this weapon

[Mark Rand]

Kitten, a cat burglar I'm going to play in PhantomGM's "Bad Attitude" campaign, has several methods of knocking victims out. One is a suppressed Beretta 92F that can carry either sleep darts, its regular load, or regular ammo.

 

I suspect that this would be a multipower, but I'm not sure how many points to make it or how to write up the sleep darts.

 

Any help is appreciated.

[Bloodstone]

Re: this weapon

 

This sort of thing is usually a pretty standard EB NN Defenses is appropriate Life Support vs Poison and/or Sleep). You might also want to add something like "only against unarmored hit locations" or some such to help reflect the fact the dart needs to pierce skin before it's effective.

 

Drain Stun is also a good option.

 

However, if it's literally supposed to be something that can KO an average thug with one shot, then you will either need a LOT of dice or some kind of Continuous construct.

[BNakagawa]

Re: this weapon

 

how many points do you have available and what are the applicable campaign limitations (if any)?

[secretID]

Re: this weapon

 

Here's one. I have no idea what the bullet damage should be. I'd set that, set the MP reserve to accommodate it, and set the tranq dart to that level. As was said, that dart is really only good for multiple shots on a guy with bid DEF. I'd think about adding a flashbang and an entangle, since they add almost nothing to the cost.

 

18 Variable Ammo Gun: Multipower, 40-point reserve, (40 Active Points); all slots OAF (-1), Beam

(-1/4)

1u 1) Tranq Dart: Energy Blast 4d6, 4 clips of 8 Charges (+0), No Normal Defense (LS: neurotoxins;

+1) (40 Active Points); OAF (-1), Limited Range (-1/4), Can Be Missile Deflected (-1/4), Beam

(-1/4)

1u 2) Bullets: Killing Attack - Ranged 2d6, +1 Increased STUN Multiplier (+1/4) (37 Active Points);

OAF (-1), 4 clips of 6 Charges (-1/4), Beam (-1/4)

[Bloodstone]

Re: this weapon

 

Can Be Missile Deflected is not a valid lim for a power built with EB, though you might be able to convince a GM to allow somethign along the lins if it's supposed to be easier to deflect than a normal bullet.

[secretID]

Re: this weapon

 

Hmm...HD took it. I thought maybe it b/c of the NND.

[Alibear]

Re: this weapon

 

HD don't know the rules.

[secretID]

Re: this weapon

 

HD don't know the rules.

I wouldn't go that far - it doesn't trump the rules, of course. This looks like a deliberate exception - he blocked can be missile deflected from EB in general, but opened it again for NND - so it makes me think that he had a reason. I think I'll ask him.

[Mark Rand]

Re: this weapon

 

According to the Hero System Equipment Guide, a standard 9mm round does 1D6+1 damage, and the subsonic round, the right one for a suppressed weapon, does 1D6 damage.

 

While Kitten has other methods of knocking a victim out, a chloroform-soaked rag, sleep gas pellets, and a telescoping baton, there times that only a silenced pistol will do the trick.

[secretID]

Re: this weapon

 

While Kitten has other methods of knocking a victim out' date=' a chloroform-soaked rag, sleep gas pellets, and a telescoping baton, there times that only a silenced pistol will do the trick.[/quote']

Since NND is so expensive, if this is mostly for mooks you may want to go with just an EB, Does no body. DEF will still apply, but if you don't expect them to have much DEF, you'll be able to get to KO levels of damage much more cheaply. I don't know about sfx for that, though...

[secretID]

Re: this weapon

 

Can Be Missile Deflected is not a valid lim for a power built with EB' date=' though you might be able to convince a GM to allow somethign along the lins if it's supposed to be easier to deflect than a normal bullet.[/quote']

I'm too lazy to check this for myself right now, but ghost-angel at least disagrees on this point:

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1854831#post1854831

[Bloodstone]

Re: this weapon

 

I wouldn't go that far - it doesn't trump the rules' date=' of course. This looks like a deliberate exception - he blocked [i']can be missile deflected[/i] from EB in general, but opened it again for NND - so it makes me think that he had a reason. I think I'll ask him.

 

Well, NND ignores "standard" defenses, but I don't think Missile Deflection counts on this one. I don't think I've ever seen Steve place the limitation on an NND based on RKA or EB before. This includes the example Knockout Dart Gun in 5ER under

 

But it's really more of a SFX issue anyhow. If you defined the NND as a thrown knife coated in poison it would be easier to Missile Deflect than if you described it as a Paralysis Beam.

[secretID]

Re: this weapon

 

But it's really more of a SFX issue anyhow. If you defined the NND as a thrown knife coated in poison it would be easier to Missile Deflect than if you described it as a Paralysis Beam.

Right. Personally, I like to minimize the rules impact of sfx. I haven't encountered the issue as a GM, but I would either: 1) say the default is no missile deflection of NND, so the character can/should take the lim where appropriate; or 2) say that the default is deflectability, so that you'd need a custom adder for not being deflectable.

 

I think. #2 starts to look like you can build a power with "cannot be blocked." Maybe that indicates that only #1 makes sense...

[Guest steamteck]

Re: this weapon

 

I always have trouble picturing a spread EB being deflected myself. I often picture you either sweep like a beam weapon or fire lots of little bolts ( easier to deflect) though depending on the power sfx.

[Bloodstone]

Re: this weapon

 

I always have trouble picturing a spread EB being deflected myself. I often picture you either sweep like a beam weapon or fire lots of little bolts ( easier to deflect) though depending on the power sfx.

 

And yet you KNOW Wonder Woman would deflect it easily

[Bloodstone]

Re: this weapon

 

Right. Personally' date=' I like to minimize the rules impact of sfx. I haven't encountered the issue as a GM, but I would either: 1) say the default is no missile deflection of NND, so the character can/should take the lim where appropriate; or 2) say that the default is deflectability, so that you'd need a custom adder for not being deflectable. [/quote']

 

The Rules for Missile Deflection, as they currently stand, are inherently SFX driven though. A 2d6 RKA defined as a thrown knife takes less points of missile deflection to defend against than a 2d6 bullet.

 

The official word from the Steve:

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=55891

[secretID]

Re: this weapon

 

The Rules for Missile Deflection, as they currently stand, are inherently SFX driven though. A 2d6 RKA defined as a thrown knife takes less points of missile deflection to defend against than a 2d6 bullet.

 

The official word from the Steve:

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=55891

Thanks for the link. That says to me that you shouldn't get the lim for it (or have to pay for it) - it's just relative bonus or penalty of the sfx.

[Psychonus]

Re: this weapon

 

If the GM is open to the option it could be a form of entangle against Con or Ego?

[secretID]

Re: this weapon

 

If the GM is open to the option it could be a form of entangle against Con or Ego?

Personally, I think EGO-based entangle is the wrong way to do it - then the target is dodging the attack with his DECV. There's a character in my campaign who has paralysis dust: CON-based Mind Control, telepathic, limited to one command ("don't move"). It's counterintuitive, but it fits the sfx perfectly.

[Mark Rand]

Re: this weapon

 

I was looking through a box of clippings from various sources, and I found a .45 version of the gun!!! It's in the "Gadgets & Treasures" column of Adventurer' Club Issue 7, Summer '86.

 

It's a multipower with two ultra slots. The first is the regular ammo. The second is the sleep dart. It's 1 point RKA + 2D6 Stun NND (defense is having antidote in your blood system.

[Trebuchet]

Re: this weapon

 

I was looking through a box of clippings from various sources' date=' and I found a .45 version of the gun!!! It's in the "Gadgets & Treasures" column of [i']Adventurer' Club[/i] Issue 7, Summer '86.

 

It's a multipower with two ultra slots. The first is the regular ammo. The second is the sleep dart. It's 1 point RKA + 2D6 Stun NND (defense is having antidote in your blood system.

I sure wouldn't allow that as the defense against the NND in my campaign. In essence that assumes that the only persons immune to the tranquilizer have previous experience with it. That might have been legal or valid in 1986; I sure don't think it would be under 5E or 5ER rules.

 

Since it's supposed to be a dart, IMO Resistant defenses or rigid Armor would be more reasonable defenses.

[Mark Rand]

Re: this weapon

 

I sure wouldn't allow that as the defense against the NND in my campaign. In essence that assumes that the only persons immune to the tranquilizer have previous experience with it. That might have been legal or valid in 1986; I sure don't think it would be under 5E or 5ER rules.

 

Since it's supposed to be a dart, IMO Resistant defenses or rigid Armor would be more reasonable defenses.

 

True, but, I think, being able to resist the sleep drug also helps.

 

Of course, Kitten, being a cat burglar, will first use either her chloroform-soaked rag, or a sleep gas capsule. If that doesn't work, she'll either hit her victim with her baton or shoot him with a sleep dart.

 

Oh, I just noticed that the weapon was for a Justice, Inc. campaign.

[Trebuchet]

Re: this weapon

 

True, but, I think, being able to resist the sleep drug also helps.

 

Of course, Kitten, being a cat burglar, will first use either her chloroform-soaked rag, or a sleep gas capsule. If that doesn't work, she'll either hit her victim with her baton or shoot him with a sleep dart.

 

Oh, I just noticed that the weapon was for a Justice, Inc. campaign.

Yes, but how do you "resist the sleep drug" within a game context?

 

Me, I think I'd go with a CON roll. And of course for Champions it needs a few more dice unless all Kitten wants to knock out are ordinary museum guards.

[Mark Rand]

Re: this weapon

 

Yes, but how do you "resist the sleep drug" within a game context?

 

Me, I think I'd go with a CON roll. And of course for Champions it needs a few more dice unless all Kitten wants to knock out are ordinary museum guards.

 

Resisting means that you have an immunity to it, by taking the antidote, have drugs in your system that keep you awake, have an alien biochemistry, or some other immunity to the drug.

 

I can give the drug 6D6 stun instead of 2.

[secretID]

Re: this weapon

 

Resisting means that you have an immunity to it' date=' by taking the antidote, have drugs in your system that keep you awake, have an alien biochemistry, or some other immunity to the drug.[/quote']

If you define the type of poison, then there's a life support that will provide immunity.