Announcing Kazei 5, Second Edition

[Susano]

Re: Announcing Kazei 5, Second Edition

 

A Kazei Five webcomic I came across here.

 

Yeah, that's been running for a while now. I'm pretty sure the creator is on the Kazei 5 mailing list, too.

[Steve]

Re: Announcing Kazei 5, Second Edition

 

After reading through the Deseret section, a couple of things occurred to me.

 

The Mormons have a strong tradition of being anti-slavery, going all the way back to Joseph Smith. Because of that, I believe Deseret would have instituted laws similar to what Australia did, that replicated humans are individuals and not property, must have worker visas, must be paid a fair wage, etc. Escaped replicates would also likely find haven in Deseret, which could have interesting campaign possibilities.

 

How they would be treated by the citiziens of Deseret would be guided by what the Church leadership says. Do replicates have souls? If so, sympathy and a certain amount of horror would probably be evident in how Mormons treated replicates. If they are deemed soulless (which I would doubt to be the case), then they might be treated as being something less than human.

 

Mind you, this is my impression of how things might go, basing my opinion on being a Mormon myself.

[Susano]

Re: Announcing Kazei 5, Second Edition

 

After reading through the Deseret section, a couple of things occurred to me.

 

The Mormons have a strong tradition of being anti-slavery, going all the way back to Joseph Smith. Because of that, I believe Deseret would have instituted laws similar to what Australia did, that replicated humans are individuals and not property, must have worker visas, must be paid a fair wage, etc. Escaped replicates would also likely find haven in Deseret, which could have interesting campaign possibilities.

 

How they would be treated by the citiziens of Deseret would be guided by what the Church leadership says. Do replicates have souls? If so, sympathy and a certain amount of horror would probably be evident in how Mormons treated repliacates. If they are deemed soulless (which I would doubt to be the case), then they might be treated as being something less than human.

 

Mind you, this is my impression of how things might go, basing my opinion on being a Mormon myself.

 

Can you send me some ideas via email? I'll add that to the list of things to expand up when/if I get to develop an expansion for the setting.

[Steve]

Re: Announcing Kazei 5, Second Edition

 

Can you send me some ideas via email? I'll add that to the list of things to expand up when/if I get to develop an expansion for the setting.

 

Email sent. Let me know if it doesn't come through.

[Susano]

Re: Announcing Kazei 5, Second Edition

 

I got it.

[Tasha]

Re: Announcing Kazei 5, Second Edition

 

Read though the book and if the other players are ok with it. I plan on running a mini series using your setting soon

 

Any word on the ETA of HD stuff for Kazei 5?

 

Tasha

[Susano]

Re: Announcing Kazei 5, Second Edition

 

Ahhh... I need to get back to that.

[Susano]

Re: Announcing Kazei 5, Second Edition

 

We are working on a 6E Hero Designer set. Hopefully I can hand it over to Dave Mattingly come GenCon.

[mattingly]

Re: Announcing Kazei 5, Second Edition

 

That will be a great addition.

[Tasha]

Re: Announcing Kazei 5, Second Edition

 

We are working on a 6E Hero Designer set. Hopefully I can hand it over to Dave Mattingly come GenCon.

 

And I'll be buying it the moment it's posted on someone's web store!!! can't wait!!

 

Tasha

[Xavier Onassiss]

Re: Announcing Kazei 5, Second Edition

 

I'm simultaneously working on this and my K5 adventure for GenCon. (Saturday afternoon's "Welcome to the Zero Zone, Now Get Out!") Fortunately there's quite a bit of overlap between the two....

[RexMundi]

Re: Announcing Kazei 5, Second Edition

 

Alright. I went out shopping for HERO stuff this week, and brought enough cash for two books. Wanted, Champions, maybe the Universe or Bestiary book if they were out (I tend to book shelf it, so if I see it I buy it but it's possible I overlooked it even being available yet, heh). Found (after 4 Stores and 225 miles) the Champions book, more on that later in another thread, couldn't find anything else to pick up (Already got my Dresden Files copies....), so snagged K5.

 

Haven't had a chance to dig into it yet. But, I can say, when you swat a grabby player with it, they go down. Almost as traceless as a phonebook.

 

~Rex

[Susano]

Re: Announcing Kazei 5, Second Edition

 

Alright. I went out shopping for HERO stuff this week' date=' and brought enough cash for two books. Wanted, Champions, maybe the Universe or Bestiary book if they were out (I tend to book shelf it, so if I see it I buy it but it's possible I overlooked it even being available yet, heh). [/quote']

 

The Bestiary is out. I orded mine direct and when it came in, I was amazed. 500 pages of stuff! Including selections from the work I did on the 5th Edition Asian Bestiaries (which everyone should get!)

 

Found (after 4 Stores and 225 miles) the Champions book, more on that later in another thread, couldn't find anything else to pick up (Already got my Dresden Files copies....), so snagged K5.

 

Haven't had a chance to dig into it yet. But, I can say, when you swat a grabby player with it, they go down. Almost as traceless as a phonebook.

 

~Rex

 

It's not as big as I was shooting for (I hoped to replicate Gestalt in size), but it's more than 50% larger than Kazei 5 1.0, and I'm very happy with the contents. And... even if you don't care for anime or cyberpunk, I think you can still use a lot of it for your Champions or Star Hero games.

[RexMundi]

Re: Announcing Kazei 5, Second Edition

 

Oh I'm a Huge Cyberpunk fan. Even the anime stuff (just hate Catgirls and cosplayers. ) So I am sure I will get some use out of it. Can't say I like the cover much. Something about it puts me off and I can't figure out what it is, but so far so good (may be an art thing, not sure, but Shirow Masamune has spoiled me forever on certain genre's looks, heh).

 

Unlike a few other things I can think of I'm not sorry I spent money on it. So far so good but I haven't had time to really dig into it because the d20 friends are pestering me to much. I swear, if I hear "We can do this Kazei 5 stuff in Pathfinder!" one more time I'm going to hit them upside the head with Kazei 5, sandwhiched between the two 6e books. Hard. D20 must do something to peoples perceptions. Something like out of "They Live" I think, visually orientated and Subliminal.

 

~Rex

[Susano]

Re: Announcing Kazei 5, Second Edition

 

Oh I'm a Huge Cyberpunk fan. Even the anime stuff (just hate Catgirls and cosplayers. ) So I am sure I will get some use out of it. Can't say I like the cover much. Something about it puts me off and I can't figure out what it is, but so far so good (may be an art thing, not sure, but Shirow Masamune has spoiled me forever on certain genre's looks, heh).

 

Unlike a few other things I can think of I'm not sorry I spent money on it. So far so good but I haven't had time to really dig into it because the d20 friends are pestering me to much. I swear, if I hear "We can do this Kazei 5 stuff in Pathfinder!" one more time I'm going to hit them upside the head with Kazei 5, sandwhiched between the two 6e books. Hard. D20 must do something to peoples perceptions. Something like out of "They Live" I think, visually orientated and Subliminal

 

The cover was a collaborative effort. In a perfect world, Shirow would have done the mecha, guns, and some of the vehicles; Kenichi Sonoda would have done most of the NPCs and additional vehicles and guns, and Kia Asamiya would have done a select few NPCs and the cover.

 

Oh, and the book would be slip-cased, come with a flash drive with all 5 soundtracks, and would be full-color on the inside... and set you back about $100.00.

 

Anyway, I hope to hear more of your thoughts on the book and setting.

[Xavier Onassiss]

Re: Announcing Kazei 5, Second Edition

 

In a perfect world, Shirow would have done the mecha, guns, and some of the vehicles; Kenichi Sonoda would have done most of the NPCs and additional vehicles and guns, and Kia Asamiya would have done a select few NPCs and the cover.

 

Oh, and the book would be slip-cased, come with a flash drive with all 5 soundtracks, and would be full-color on the inside... and set you back about $100.00.

 

Drooling now!

[Nagisawa Takumi]

Re: Announcing Kazei 5, Second Edition

 

Picked this up on a whim. Love it. It's just the sort of Cyberpunk I like, and I didn't know I was wanting. It's what Cyberpunk 3e should have been!

 

I love the detail in the world, how the psionics and cybernetics are written to fit. It's a very well thought out setting.

 

However, a few things do stand out that make this an 8.5 out of 10, rather than a 9.5 (I never give the max, NOR the lowest, because it can always be 'better', even if I don't see it, and it can always be worse.)

 

First the female NPCs. They're... Well, you can tell without looking at the credits which females are made by guys, and the one that's made by a woman. The American RPG gamer fascination with super tall Amazonian women is actually rather amusing. And it misses the point for being 'anime'. It's closer to American comics that is Japanese. Alita of Battle Angel fame is about 5 feet of pure combat power, but most of the enemies and allies are taller than she is.

 

In Japan (Where most of the males aren't exactly 6 feet, yet) they usually have the hero(ine) be somewhat 'short' or average in height, while the villain(ess)s are taller. It actually stems back to World War II, where the giant American was the villain, and sets up a David and Goliath scenario that they so love over there. Shion Nys for example would be an unredeemable villain because A) She's super tall, and A complete ice-queen with little to no male counterpart to help thaw her out (A Japanese favourite style of romance, or at least most fans prefer it.)

 

But then, I wouldn't use a single built in NPC from Kazei 5 anyway. Especially coupled with some of the GM advice. Which brings me to the second point.

 

The author advises the use of GMPCs. Which to me, and my experiences, is a no-no. Really bad idea. This is actually worse than my first complaint.

 

As for the female empowerment, well all I can say is that the only reason that Masamune Shirow draws female leads in his comics is because he's stated in an interview that he absolutely hates drawing men. Can't stand it. So he makes his females be the lead, so that he can minimize the amount of page space for male characters. If he had his way, it would be all lesbians.

 

As for me, I like equal footing, no matter the gender. Although Tsundere characters are often cooler than most male ones.

 

However, when it is all said and done, I rate this setting a whopping 8.5 out of 10. I love this and I plan on using it for years to come.

[Susano]

Re: Announcing Kazei 5, Second Edition

 

Picked this up on a whim. Love it. It's just the sort of Cyberpunk I like, and I didn't know I was wanting. It's what Cyberpunk 3e should have been!

 

I love the detail in the world, how the psionics and cybernetics are written to fit. It's a very well thought out setting.

 

However, a few things do stand out that make this an 8.5 out of 10, rather than a 9.5 (I never give the max, NOR the lowest, because it can always be 'better', even if I don't see it, and it can always be worse.)

 

First the female NPCs. They're... Well, you can tell without looking at the credits which females are made by guys, and the one that's made by a woman. The American RPG gamer fascination with super tall Amazonian women is actually rather amusing. And it misses the point for being 'anime'. It's closer to American comics that is Japanese. Alita of Battle Angel fame is about 5 feet of pure combat power, but most of the enemies and allies are taller than she is.

 

I'll point out that the game is set in North America, which means I tried to have realistic North American heights for people. So you get Shion at 6'1 all they way down to her sister at 5'5". Oh, and Tetsutenshi at around 5'2" or so. Shoko is around 6'3" which is about on par for the Puma Sisters from Dominion. That said, Shion was made to be 6'1" because in the very first campaign, all of the PCs were pretty tall, and I wanted her to be able to look them in the eye.

 

I also think that what you're getting is "Americanized" anime (or something like that), because thats what it evolved into. I also think that running something in exact accordance to how Japan would do it probably wouldn't go over well, because it would clash to much with how most people think things should go. So, to be fair, K5 isn't so much an anime RPG as an anime-inspired RPG.

 

In Japan (Where most of the males aren't exactly 6 feet' date=' yet) they usually have the hero(ine) be somewhat 'short' or average in height, while the villain(ess)s are taller. It actually stems back to World War II, where the giant American was the villain, and sets up a David and Goliath scenario that they so love over there. Shion Nys for example would be an unredeemable villain because A) She's super tall, and A complete ice-queen with little to no male counterpart to help thaw her out (A Japanese favourite style of romance, or at least most fans prefer it.)[/quote']

 

In rebuttal, A) can't help you there... you're right, the tallest female leads I can think of are still pretty short (except Balalaika from Black Lagoon) and isn't that what the PCs are for? If you note in the text, Raven did it and so did Takeda Johnson.

 

But then, I wouldn't use a single built in NPC from Kazei 5 anyway. Especially coupled with some of the GM advice. Which brings me to the second point.

 

The author advises the use of GMPCs. Which to me, and my experiences, is a no-no. Really bad idea. This is actually worse than my first complaint.

 

I'm not sure I follow this. I don't recall recommending using any of the NPCs as a GM's PC. I tried to give advice for how to use the various characters in your game(s) and also mentioned how they were used in previous games.

 

As for the female empowerment, well all I can say is that the only reason that Masamune Shirow draws female leads in his comics is because he's stated in an interview that he absolutely hates drawing men. Can't stand it. So he makes his females be the lead, so that he can minimize the amount of page space for male characters. If he had his way, it would be all lesbians.

 

As for me, I like equal footing, no matter the gender. Although Tsundere characters are often cooler than most male ones.

 

However, when it is all said and done, I rate this setting a whopping 8.5 out of 10. I love this and I plan on using it for years to come.

 

Well, Shirow wasn't the only influence, there was also Akira, Battle Angel, and Silent Mobius (among others). And yes, I did notice that a lof of players made female PCs (a combination of anime + PBEM or something). I did try to include a variety of NPCs and sample characters, both male and female, but will admit, I think it's skewed toward female NPCs.

[RexMundi]

Re: Announcing Kazei 5, Second Edition

 

Yeah but that works for the subject material. While I have issues at the moment getting my players to think outside of the d20 box when it comes to RPG's, I can make them sit down and watch a bunch of Appleseed, Ghost in the Shell, Gunsmith Cats, Bubble Gum Crisis/Crash, and Tank Police, and THAT, they can visualize. Then all I have to do is work up some template picks for them and package deals and they can break free of the shackles of d20 and move forward into a real game. Shame I can't do that for pulp, heh.

 

So, after I get done reading it again, I'll toss up a "Good, the Bad, and the Ugly" sort of thing, as well as the first stumbling escapades of some players. Keep in mind, I rarely, if ever pick up Setting Material, really about the only exceptions to that have been HERO stuff so I can demonstrate common ground quickly for shared campaigns, Or, stuff like Ptolus which I tended to pick up because I did the Demo Premiers for it and other such things at one Con or another. So, at the moment after the first quick skim, and a good in depth comparisson read, I'm giving it an 8.8 on the Budweiser Scale. Well worth the coin.

 

 

~Rex

[kahuna's bro]

Re: Announcing Kazei 5, Second Edition

 

Yeah but that works for the subject material. While I have issues at the moment getting my players to think outside of the d20 box when it comes to RPG's, I can make them sit down and watch a bunch of Appleseed, Ghost in the Shell, Gunsmith Cats, Bubble Gum Crisis/Crash, and Tank Police, and THAT, they can visualize. Then all I have to do is work up some template picks for them and package deals and they can break free of the shackles of d20 and move forward into a real game. Shame I can't do that for pulp, heh.

 

 

 

 

~Rex

maybe you can show themthedvds of tales of the gold monkey and the indiana jones movioes

[RexMundi]

Re: Announcing Kazei 5, Second Edition

 

I did, the problem IS, they go Braindead when at the game table, if they don't see the word Fighter, they forget they can fight. My biggest problem is my current game group consists of a bunch of diehard d20 GM's, and they are so used to thinking in the format of being in a box, when you give them the tools to build their own box, their brain shuts off.

 

Kazei 5 though, being of an energetic Genre, written with quick easy prose (a plus) and at least similar enough in scope to the old Cyberpunk stuff I used to run forever (All I used to Run back in the day was Champions, Cyperpunk 2020, and Traveller and or various FGU products), in STYLE, that it would jog some memories and keep the brains functioning at the actual game table.

 

~Rex

[Susano]

Re: Announcing Kazei 5, Second Edition

 

Quick easy prose? It took me two years to write that!

 

[RexMundi]

Re: Announcing Kazei 5, Second Edition

 

Yeah but you wrote it in English, in a manner that can be understood. If you want a comparitive difference, take a look at the difference in writing between the down and gritty Cyperpunk 2020 stuff, and the attempt, known as Cyberpunk 3e. You can LOSE people, in babble and formatting. In Kazei 5, the Format and flow is spot on the what babble there is is approapriate to the area's it appears. Hence, quick, easy prose, which as you know as a writer, is anything BUT quick, and easy.

 

~Rex

[Nagisawa Takumi]

Re: Announcing Kazei 5, Second Edition

 

I'll point out that the game is set in North America' date=' which means I tried to have realistic North American heights for people. So you get Shion at 6'1 all they way down to her sister at 5'5". Oh, and Tetsutenshi at around 5'2" or so. Shoko is around 6'3" which is about on par for the Puma Sisters from Dominion. That said, Shion was made to be 6'1" because in the very first campaign, all of the PCs were pretty tall, and I wanted her to be able to look them in the eye.[/quote']

 

Shoko is 6'5". Puma's in general are 6' 3". Also, the current average height is about 5' 5"-6" for women and 5' 9"-10" for men. I highly doubt that the average would change that much in about 20 years (The average height the female NPC's have works out to about 5' 9". )

 

However, as I am in negotiations to run this with at least three people, it has been suggested that any female over 6 feet lost 6" in height (Still making Shion and Shoko tall, but not exceedingly so), while anyone over 5' 6" gets to lost up to 3". Not my suggestions, but it seems you have a fan in some of the NPCs. Except that they're 'too tall' (Which I DO agree with.)

 

Besides, at 5' 7" Shion (Which is the current favourite with two of my players, one of which may be running a solo PBEM, or IRC game for me, and that player is a woman, so it would seem that Ms. Nys has fans of both genders around here) still puts her in the American Supermodel class, but at the same time allows the male players to not have to make giants to 'feel secure'. (It's a consensus among my players that men get REALLY insecure when a woman is taller than they are. And it's something we've noticed on the street. It's kinda silly, really, but there you have it.)

 

(I apologize for rambling like this, but I like to give people the direction I'm coming from. )

 

I also think that what you're getting is "Americanized" anime (or something like that)' date=' because thats what it evolved into. I also think that running something in exact accordance to how Japan would do it probably wouldn't go over well, because it would clash to much with how most people think things should go. So, to be fair, K5 isn't so much an anime RPG as an anime-inspired RPG.[/quote']

 

Really? Because it feels a LOT like the Anime I used to watch in the mid to late 90s (Which I think is a good thing. I loved Armitage, still do, actually.) It's something that actually appeals to me about this setting.

 

In rebuttal' date=' A) can't help you there... you're right, the tallest female leads I can think of are still pretty short (except Balalaika from [i']Black Lagoon[/i]) and isn't that what the PCs are for? If you note in the text, Raven did it and so did Takeda Johnson.

 

Perhaps, but like I said above, a couple of potential players want to shorten the list a bit. In more ways that one.

 

I'm not sure I follow this. I don't recall recommending using any of the NPCs as a GM's PC. I tried to give advice for how to use the various characters in your game(s) and also mentioned how they were used in previous games.

 

No, you don't, but I remember a section (And damned if I can't find it) how you could use GMPCs to keep the players 'in line'. That stung a nerve. And I apologize for jumping on it, but once bitten and all that.

 

Well' date=' Shirow wasn't the only influence, there was also [i']Akira, Battle Angel[/i], and Silent Mobius (among others). And yes, I did notice that a lof of players made female PCs (a combination of anime + PBEM or something). I did try to include a variety of NPCs and sample characters, both male and female, but will admit, I think it's skewed toward female NPCs.

 

No, Shirow wasn't the only, but his attitude (Except for the extremeness, or rather that's how it came off in a couple of translated interviews) is relatively common for most male Manga artists. Personally, as I stated, I'd rather have a more even split in terms of capacity.

 

And yes, you have a lot more girls than guys listed. Nothing wrong with that, mind you.

[Susano]

Re: Announcing Kazei 5, Second Edition

 

Shoko is 6'5". Puma's in general are 6' 3". Also' date=' the current average height is about 5' 5"-6" for women and 5' 9"-10" for men. I highly doubt that the average would change that much in about 20 years (The average height the female NPC's have works out to about 5' 9". )[/quote']

 

And the Puma Sisters from Dominion are 6'3". As for Shoko... not my design. As for the rest... ah well, perhaps I've over-estimated the average heights of people in the US. On the other hand, I tried to make their weights match their heights (which is why Shion weighs 175 at 6'1" and not 140... which would make her a stick!)

 

However, as I am in negotiations to run this with at least three people, it has been suggested that any female over 6 feet lost 6" in height (Still making Shion and Shoko tall, but not exceedingly so), while anyone over 5' 6" gets to lost up to 3". Not my suggestions, but it seems you have a fan in some of the NPCs. Except that they're 'too tall' (Which I DO agree with.)

 

I think part of Shion's "mystique" is the fact she's 6'1"... but whatever works for you.

 

Besides, at 5' 7" Shion (Which is the current favourite with two of my players, one of which may be running a solo PBEM, or IRC game for me, and that player is a woman, so it would seem that Ms. Nys has fans of both genders around here) still puts her in the American Supermodel class, but at the same time allows the male players to not have to make giants to 'feel secure'. (It's a consensus among my players that men get REALLY insecure when a woman is taller than they are. And it's something we've noticed on the street. It's kinda silly, really, but there you have it.)

 

(I apologize for rambling like this, but I like to give people the direction I'm coming from. )

 

Shion proved to be massively popular among the PBEM people. Her character was revealed to be a lot more complex then the initial "ice queen" persona most people see and they like that. And yeah, most of the male players admitted that Shion, while incredibly attractive and all, would almost certainly intimidate the hell out of them in the real world.

 

Really? Because it feels a LOT like the Anime I used to watch in the mid to late 90s (Which I think is a good thing. I loved Armitage, still do, actually.) It's something that actually appeals to me about this setting.

 

Really? That's awesome to hear. I mean, that's what I wanted to do (simulate things like BGC, Appleseed, and so on), but I also realize that the execution evolved a lot over the years, and that I never attempted to really simulate certain aspects of Japanese culture and characters as seen in anime.

 

Perhaps, but like I said above, a couple of potential players want to shorten the list a bit. In more ways that one.

 

Well, if you make Shion shorter, than Marta needs to be shorter as well. Like only 5'2" or something. Shion's tall, Marta's short. Shion was white hair, Marta black. Shion is an esper, Marta is cyberware. Shion has a rotten sex life, Marta is in a stable relationship. And so on.

 

No, you don't, but I remember a section (And damned if I can't find it) how you could use GMPCs to keep the players 'in line'. That stung a nerve. And I apologize for jumping on it, but once bitten and all that.

 

I don't recall anything like that in the K5 book. Uhm... perhaps you're thinking of another book?

 

No, Shirow wasn't the only, but his attitude (Except for the extremeness, or rather that's how it came off in a couple of translated interviews) is relatively common for most male Manga artists. Personally, as I stated, I'd rather have a more even split in terms of capacity.

 

And yes, you have a lot more girls than guys listed. Nothing wrong with that, mind you.

 

I think my problem is, I find more interesting art of female characters than of male, which is where my ideas come from. That and a lot of the NPCs are from the original games, and there were a lot of female PCs in the PBEM games. Perhaps if there's a companion volume, I can include more male NPCs.