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Susano

Five Innovative But Impractical Handguns

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James Rummel has pictures and descriptions of five handguns that were very innovative designs, but turned out to be useless in real life. These include the Henrion, Dassy & Heuschen twenty-shot revolver, manufactured in France between 1921 and 1928.

 

3701352026_761fbf2cbb.jpg?v=0

 

Of course, this being gaming, your guns can work a lot better in game than in the real world.

 

http://www.hellinahandbasket.net/2009/07/5-brilliant-innovative-handgun.htm

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Re: Five Innovative But Impractical Handguns

 

I could see the Lemat revolver becoming the favorite of munchkin RPGers in Wild West games--

 

THE MUNCHKIN: "It's got a second barrel underneath the barrel for the bullets, and it fires a shotgun shell! I bet the other guys would never see that coming! One shot and BLAMMO! The guy goes down!"

 

THE GM: "You do realize that you have to disassemble the gun to reload it, don't you?"

 

THE MUNCHKIN: "Disassemble it? Why? Is it broken?"

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Re: Five Innovative But Impractical Handguns

 

I could see the Lemat revolver becoming the favorite of munchkin RPGers in Wild West games--

 

THE MUNCHKIN: "It's got a second barrel underneath the barrel for the bullets, and it fires a shotgun shell! I bet the other guys would never see that coming! One shot and BLAMMO! The guy goes down!"

 

THE GM: "You do realize that you have to disassemble the gun to reload it, don't you?"

 

THE MUNCHKIN: "Disassemble it? Why? Is it broken?"

 

Nothing a decently competent gadgeteer couldn't fix.

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Re: Five Innovative But Impractical Handguns

 

from the replica LeMats I've seen it was a cap and ball pistol

and they do take time to reload but you can pull the cylinder and replace it fairly quickly(about 3 times the time to replace a clip fed gun)

you could have pre-loaded cylinders but they will be heavy compared to clips

and probably need specially made holders for your belt

 

 

I could see the Lemat revolver becoming the favorite of munchkin RPGers in Wild West games--

 

THE MUNCHKIN: "It's got a second barrel underneath the barrel for the bullets, and it fires a shotgun shell! I bet the other guys would never see that coming! One shot and BLAMMO! The guy goes down!"

 

THE GM: "You do realize that you have to disassemble the gun to reload it, don't you?"

 

THE MUNCHKIN: "Disassemble it? Why? Is it broken?"

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Re: Five Innovative But Impractical Handguns

 

The Lemat is the only one that looks somewhat practical, the rest are under powered gimics. That machine revolver might be a fun plinker though. There was a 30 round .22 auto pistol that came out right before the 1994 "assault weapons" ban that looks like it could be that revolvers great great grand child.

 

from the replica LeMats I've seen it was a cap and ball pistol

and they do take time to reload but you can pull the cylinder and replace it fairly quickly(about 3 times the time to replace a clip fed gun)

you could have pre-loaded cylinders but they will be heavy compared to clips

and probably need specially made holders for your belt

 

Are you sure the cylinder is removable? Most cap and ball revolvers have a snap cylinder so you just pull a lever and the cylinder pops out. This is what allowed an additional (loaded) cylinder to be carried like a primative speed loader.

 

The Lemat looks like the shotgun barrel goes through the center of the cylinder which would make it impossible to pop the cylnder out. Looking at the photo of the disassembled gun it looks like you would have to remove the cylinder by sliding it over the barrel after disassembling the gun.

 

It does look like it is possible the cylinder could be reloaded on the gun.

 

I've never seen a real one, so all I have to go on is photos and vague descriptions of the gun.

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Re: Five Innovative But Impractical Handguns

 

There was a 30 round .22 auto pistol that came out right before the 1994 "assault weapons" ban that looks like it could be that revolvers great great grand child.

 

The Calico. Came out in a 9mm version as well.

Calico SMG

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Re: Five Innovative But Impractical Handguns

 

I could see the Lemat revolver becoming the favorite of munchkin RPGers in Wild West games--

 

THE MUNCHKIN: "It's got a second barrel underneath the barrel for the bullets, and it fires a shotgun shell! I bet the other guys would never see that coming! One shot and BLAMMO! The guy goes down!"

 

THE GM: "You do realize that you have to disassemble the gun to reload it, don't you?"

 

THE MUNCHKIN: "Disassemble it? Why? Is it broken?"

 

Only the Cartridge Versions of the LeMat had to be Disassembled to reload. The Cap and Ball versions could be loaded from the muzzle of the shotgun and the front of the cylinder.

 

The LeMat was one of my favorite weapons for a Castle Falkenstein game. You make sure that the Shotgun shell is filled with iron bits and you are ready to turn some Faerie's day really bad. Of course my Dwarf Gunsmith also put iron filings into his lead bullets...

 

Tasha

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Re: Five Innovative But Impractical Handguns

 

Only the Cartridge Versions of the LeMat had to be Disassembled to reload. The Cap and Ball versions could be loaded from the muzzle of the shotgun and the front of the cylinder.

 

The LeMat was one of my favorite weapons for a Castle Falkenstein game. You make sure that the Shotgun shell is filled with iron bits and you are ready to turn some Faerie's day really bad. Of course my Dwarf Gunsmith also put iron filings into his lead bullets...

 

Tasha

 

Check out the .50 BMG handgun. IE this gun shoots the same round as the .50 Heavy Machine Gun. This is a gun for stupid Munchkins.

 

.50 MBG Handgun

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Re: Five Innovative But Impractical Handguns

 

Harumph.

 

Something seems to have eaten my attempted post to this thread.

 

Suffice to say, I also disagree with the inclusion of the LeMat as impractical. I fully intend to own one, and as Tasha notes, you can load that shotgun barrel with all sorts of fun things to potentially discombobulate whatever form of supernatural baddie you happen to be confronting, which is why the US Federal Special Rangers (aka the Ghost Rangers) carry a modified top break cartridge evolution of the LeMat in my steampunkish setting

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Re: Five Innovative But Impractical Handguns

 

Only the Cartridge Versions of the LeMat had to be Disassembled to reload. The Cap and Ball versions could be loaded from the muzzle of the shotgun and the front of the cylinder.

 

The LeMat was one of my favorite weapons for a Castle Falkenstein game. You make sure that the Shotgun shell is filled with iron bits and you are ready to turn some Faerie's day really bad. Of course my Dwarf Gunsmith also put iron filings into his lead bullets...

 

Tasha

 

the most common load for the Specials to carry loaded (before they figure out what they're getting into) are silver tipped stakes, soaked in holy water and banded with runically engraved cold iron bands.

Spin stabilized by ribbon drogues...

I suppose the ribbon could also be special... woven from unicorn/mermaid hair or cut from the burial shroud of a murderer, to pick a couple off the top of my head...

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Re: Five Innovative But Impractical Handguns

 

The Calico. Came out in a 9mm version as well.

Calico SMG

 

 

No, it had 50 or 100 22lr rounds.

I think he meant the Grendel P30, with 30 rounds of .22Magnum rimfire. Too bad it was a mediocre at best design.

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Re: Five Innovative But Impractical Handguns

 

might be better if you put a thin glass cartridge of holy water in the silver tip put a few holes in the tip so that the water flowed out after impact.

 

I also wondered if you where to use a spiral cold iron banding if it would act like rifling giving you your spin stabalisation.

 

I would suggest Rowan or ash stakes prepared with a garlic, wolfs bane and mistletoe oil

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Re: Five Innovative But Impractical Handguns

 

No, it had 50 or 100 22lr rounds.

I think he meant the Grendel P30, with 30 rounds of .22Magnum rimfire. Too bad it was a mediocre at best design.

 

Yep, I think that was the one. It looked somewhat like the Ruger .22 pistol but held a lot more rounds. I thought it was .22 LR though, it seemed like the ultimate pinking pistol.

 

I remember another gun in .22 Magnum but I thought it was more like 15 rounds and aimed more at those wanting a small high capacity pistol for self defence (.22 mag would not be my first choice but against the competing 25, 32 and 380 acp pistols probably not a bad option).

 

1994 was quite some time ago, so I may be mixing a couple of guns together. I have a limited attention span for guns that don't use a .357 Magnum or .45 ACP. :o

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Re: Five Innovative But Impractical Handguns

 

Yep, I think that was the one. It looked somewhat like the Ruger .22 pistol but held a lot more rounds. I thought it was .22 LR though, it seemed like the ultimate pinking pistol.

 

I remember another gun in .22 Magnum but I thought it was more like 15 rounds and aimed more at those wanting a small high capacity pistol for self defence (.22 mag would not be my first choice but against the competing 25, 32 and 380 acp pistols probably not a bad option).

 

1994 was quite some time ago, so I may be mixing a couple of guns together. I have a limited attention span for guns that don't use a .357 Magnum or .45 ACP. :o

 

So nine millies just pass you by then? :D

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Re: Five Innovative But Impractical Handguns

 

So nine millies just pass you by then? :D

 

While 9mm isn't my favorite, I have a S&W M6906 9mm which I am very pleased with and would not hesitate to rely on when the zombies come (and they will). :)

 

9mm is an adequate round, its just that every body and their uncle came out with a high capacity 9mm in the 80s, making it hard get excited about yet another one.

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Re: Five Innovative But Impractical Handguns

 

The MBA 13mm Gyrojet Pistol

[ATTACH]32141[/ATTACH]

Gyrojet technology was supposed to be the next best thing, according to a lot of the 80's scifi RPGs (Battletech, Spacemaster, etc.).

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Re: Five Innovative But Impractical Handguns

 

The MBA 13mm Gyrojet Pistol

[ATTACH]32141[/ATTACH]

Gyrojet technology was supposed to be the next best thing, according to a lot of the 80's scifi RPGs (Battletech, Spacemaster, etc.).

 

Larry Niven....

 

He wrote a detective story where the hero carried one of these.

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Re: Five Innovative But Impractical Handguns

 

The MBA 13mm Gyrojet Pistol

[ATTACH]32141[/ATTACH]

Gyrojet technology was supposed to be the next best thing, according to a lot of the 80's scifi RPGs (Battletech, Spacemaster, etc.).

 

 

The technology imo ran aground on a simple factor: It is very difficult to manufacture anything to the level of precision that was needed to get any accuracy, while still making the ammunition affordable.

 

MBA even demonstrated a gyroget 40mm grenade launcher, iirc, and there was a weapon that fired massive quantities of tiny rockets for certain roles.

 

I suspect that the 30 years of technological development might allow a more practical version, but it would still have difficulty with controlling costs.

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Re: Five Innovative But Impractical Handguns

 

As I recall the Gyrojet also had an issue with poor power at close range, it needed some distance for the round to get up to speed.

 

The gun itself wasn't the most combat friendly either as I believe it had a fixed magazine that loaded individual rounds from the top. Being basically a prototype I'm sure the gun would have been modified if the round had proven more practical.

 

On a personal note my grandfather owned a machineshop and he made a few gyrojet rounds as part of a bid to be a subcontractor. He didn't get a contract but had a few of the unfilled rounds as souviners.

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Re: Five Innovative But Impractical Handguns

 

As I recall the Gyrojet also had an issue with poor power at close range, it needed some distance for the round to get up to speed.

 

The gun itself wasn't the most combat friendly either as I believe it had a fixed magazine that loaded individual rounds from the top. Being basically a prototype I'm sure the gun would have been modified if the round had proven more practical.

 

On a personal note my grandfather owned a machineshop and he made a few gyrojet rounds as part of a bid to be a subcontractor. He didn't get a contract but had a few of the unfilled rounds as souviners.

 

 

 

there was an article on the company several years ago in "Small Arms Review." If I ever find my copy...

 

I always thought that the obvious solution to the short range/low velocity problem was to have an impact fuse that would detonate/deflagrate the leftover propellant. A version with a small explosive payload and fuse could counteract a lot of that also, obviously.

 

SOmething between the size of the carbine round and the 40mm grenade version, perhaps a 20mm x 60 mm or so? If it were set up (yes like the gyrocs or whatever Gurps called them!) that was fired at low velocity from the barrel, then accelerated further by the rocket motor, and detonated on impact after say 10meters...

 

I have seen reference to an integral rocket pack fitted to one of the relatively early jet fighters, the rear of the tubes were actually closed, so the initial firing of the rocket acted like a gun barrel, and the rocket picked up a "useful" amount of extra velocity. I have NEVER been able to find any specific numbers.

 

the Gyrojet weapons did have one useful feature besides "no recoil". They could be fired under water as well. :eg:

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