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6e Discussion: Combat Values


Sean Waters
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Re: 6e Discussion: Combat Values

 

[RANT]And it's not "DEX Creep" - it was this way from the very first edition. The typical Super had 23 DEX then and has 23 DEX now.[/RANT]

 

You are absolutely correct. I once posted an analysis of characters from Enemies II and Enemies III. DEX values were around the 20-30 range, with some oddballs, like the martial artist with 42 DEX, or the real oddball brick type with DEX 7 and SPD 6!

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Re: 6e Discussion: Combat Values

 

To give an example of 5E silliness:

Ballerina: Row of 10s, 20 DEX.

Weight Lifter: Row of 10s, 20 STR.

Who will win? Speed 3 Ballerina with CV 7 and 2d6 Normal Damage, or Speed 2 Lifter with CV 4 and 4d6 Normal Damage? I would not say it's in his favour, but in reality, I'd rather brawl against a Ballerina than a Weightlifter. Because in reality, both have CV 3, like in 6E.

 

I wouldn't want to get kicked by a ballerina! :eek:

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Re: 6e Discussion: Combat Values

 

I guess' date=' being the perrenial GM and toolkit freakazoid, I have a different viewpoint on the costing issue vis-a-vis DEX. If its something I can houserule with a regnant wave of my hand and minimal if any effort its not a problem. I hereby declare its cost to be 1. Problem solved. For me, at least. The same goes for banning sellbacks or just dropping all combat values to 0. I feel my kingly might deep in my loins. I know I will probably be flamed with the "it shouldn't have to be house ruled" argument. I guess in a world where Steve was invested with some sort of dubious hero pontiff infallibility that would be true. As it is, he's flesh and blood and entitled to feel differently about the importance of initiative value than I do. Its not right or wrong, per se. Its just a different style and emphasis due to the kinds of games he likes to run.[/quote']

 

Vondy, as always you are wise. Repped, if I can (and I could, so I did!).

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Re: 6e Discussion: Combat Values

 

Maybe' date=' personally I usually invested in Intellect Skill Levels more often than any others anyways.[/quote']

What can I say, thinking/talking one's way through things can be just as interesting as just going through with all guns blazing (many times it is even more interesting as it serves as a breath of fresh air in a lot of groups).

 

For the moment, I will cite Beverly Hills Cop as a good example of playing through scenarios without a "combat" mentality everywhere one goes.

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Re: 6e Discussion: Combat Values

 

What can I say, thinking/talking one's way through things can be just as interesting as just going through with all guns blazing (many times it is even more interesting as it serves as a breath of fresh air in a lot of groups).

 

For the moment, I will cite Beverly Hills Cop as a good example of playing through scenarios without a "combat" mentality everywhere one goes.

 

 

I agree, but it doesn't seem like that's where the bulk of the rules are.

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Re: 6e Discussion: Combat Values

 

I agree' date=' but it doesn't seem like that's where the bulk of the rules are.[/quote']

 

One of the big revelations for me during the 6e discussions is that Combat is simply a massively detailed skill.But this being a RPG, most of which focus on adventure and action, it's natural for the system to focus on combat.To me, the repricing of Intellect and Interaction Skills makes playing a non-combatant cheaper and more viable, but YMMV.

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Re: 6e Discussion: Combat Values

 

One of the big revelations for me during the 6e discussions is that Combat is simply a massively detailed skill.But this being a RPG' date=' most of which focus on adventure and action, it's natural for the system to focus on combat.To me, the repricing of Intellect and Interaction Skills makes playing a non-combatant cheaper and more viable, but YMMV.[/quote']

 

You mean like a noncombatant Rogue who is skilled in picking locks, removal of traps, climbing walls, picking pockets, tumbling and other such feats? :rolleyes:

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Re: 6e Discussion: Combat Values

 

Personally I'd have liked to see PER split off from INT, Combat Order split off from DEX and PRE attacks quietly taken round the back and kicked to death.

 

Then all DEX, INT and PRE would really do is control skill rolls, and act as a reservoir for targeting by adjustment powers.

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Re: 6e Discussion: Combat Values

 

Personally I'd have liked to see PER split off from INT, Combat Order split off from DEX and PRE attacks quietly taken round the back and kicked to death.

 

Then all DEX, INT and PRE would really do is control skill rolls, and act as a reservoir for targeting by adjustment powers.

 

But then again, with that, why target them at all if they don't mean that much... adjust Characteristics is not really that attractive now anymore... except maybe STR and Body.

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Re: 6e Discussion: Combat Values

 

But then again' date=' with that, why target them at all if they don't mean that much... adjust Characteristics is not really that attractive now anymore... except maybe STR and Body.[/quote']

 

That's a good point: it would cost as much to change a skill roll by -1 as it does OCV or DCV...but the difference is if you get them down to 0 INT/PRE/DEX there are pretty serious consequences.

 

(I'm not convinced ditching negative characteristics was necessary or a great idea, but it was rarely a major issue anyway).

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Re: 6e Discussion: Combat Values

 

Actually, that has me thinking. You want a 'Freeze Opponent' power: drain v DEX, SPD, OCV and DCV. That's 4 abilities, which is +1 1/2. Say 2d6 ranged drain (60 points).

 

You roll 10 points: that is -5 DEX (equivalent of -1 on agility skills), -1 SPD, -1 DCV (value halved as it is defensive) and -2 OCV.

 

under 5e you'd have lost 3 DEX (and a point toward another) and 1 SPD, which MIGHT mean -1 on agility skills and would mean -1 OCV and -1 DCV.

 

OCV and Agility skills drop off proportionally quicker than they would have in 5e. Of course the drain would have cost less in 5e: 50 instead of 60, but that's only a point or two more in effect: hmm...

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Re: 6e Discussion: Combat Values

 

considering that Int remained pretty much untouched

it could have been replaced by becoming a talent at 5pts per +1 for Int and Percpetion

 

 

One of the big revelations for me during the 6e discussions is that Combat is simply a massively detailed skill.But this being a RPG' date=' most of which focus on adventure and action, it's natural for the system to focus on combat.To me, the repricing of Intellect and Interaction Skills makes playing a non-combatant cheaper and more viable, but YMMV.[/quote']
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Re: 6e Discussion: Combat Values

 

it has been brought up that who goes first is more on who is mentally ready but having a quick reaction time does not hurt

sounding like a figured stat is needed using say

 

Int=assess the situation

Dex=body movement

Ego=force of will to not be overwhelmed by the situation that might cause hesitation

 

Int+Dex+Ego/3=Reaction time

Reaction time/5+9 for a skill roll to break ties

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