Jump to content

Post "gotchas" here


Chris Goodwin

Recommended Posts

Re: Post "gotchas" here

 

I don't mind the Hit Location chart remaining unchanged.

 

In games that don't use 'em, KA's will kill because they do not knock you out so well.

 

In games that do use 'em, KA's will mess you up bad in the right spots.

 

 

Superheroes can successfully resist KA's and Heroes can fear them.

 

Makes sense to me.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 359
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Re: Post "gotchas" here

 

You demonstrate how the two powers are relatively differnt' date=' and then state that they remain relatively the same.[/quote']

 

Re-read what I wrote with the added emphasis:

 

...The real question when House Ruling' date=' in my mind, is [b']how do KAs stack up against same DC normal attacks[/b]? If you're not using Hit Locs, then KAs do (a lot) less Stun on average but more Body. If you are using Hit Locs then KAs do less Stun on average but more Body. The roles of the two powers remains the same (you want to do Stun use a NA; you want to do Body use a KA)...

 

In both cases, KAs do less Stun but more Body. Therefore their roles do not change.

 

Aside from that, I'm not sure you and I are interpreting the 'Cannot Use Targeting' modifier the same. My reading of it is that your modifiers become x1 for both Body and Stun no matter what Hit Location you roll (or target). Now, I could see the argument being made that you should apply a flat x3 Stun multiplier for Killing Attacks regardless of location but it's not explicit either way.

 

You seem to be reading that to mean that the attack uses the Stun Lotto die (1d6-1 or 1d3) to determine the Stun Multiplier and I just don't see that in either 6E or 5E because you still need to roll on the Hit Locs chart to see if you've struck Armor. So, you'd either be ignoring the armor issue or adding an extra die roll after the Hit Locs roll (this is also why I personally don't like the Lotto for AE attacks in Hit Locs games). I doubt that's what Steve Long intended.

 

If you read it as being a flat x1 multiplier, then you can make the argument that this limitation affects KAs far more than it does NAs and I'd agree with you. This is the strongest argument for interpreting it as a x3.

 

If you read it as being a flat x3 multiplier, then the KAs average damage does not change for attacks with this Limitation.

 

If you read it as having to use the Stun Lotto die for such attacks, then yes, 1d3 is less average damage than the Hit Locs chart. My advice in this case is the same as my advice for using the optional rule to roll the Stun Lotto rather than Hit Locs for AE and similar attacks:

 

If you do use a Stun Lotto for Area Effects and the like' date=' I'd recommend using the 1d6-1 Lotto rather than the 1d3 Lotto in order to keep pairity....[/quote']

 

Considering your arguments keep coming back to the Cannot Use Targetting Limitation and using an optional rule for AE-type powers, I would suggest that it's easier to house-rule those two things to using a 1d6-1 Stun Lotto than it is to try to re-write the Hit Locs chart, which will be both harder to balance and have a larger impact on the game due to affecting more attacks more of the time.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: Post "gotchas" here

 

Considering your arguments keep coming back to the Cannot Use Targetting Limitation and using an optional rule for AE-type powers' date=' I would suggest that it's [b']easier[/b] to house-rule those two things to using a 1d6-1 Stun Lotto than it is to try to re-write the Hit Locs chart, which will be both harder to balance and have a larger impact on the game due to affecting more attacks more of the time.

 

I'd probably do something (nd6/n)-1, or maybe 3d6, take the median die, then subtract one. There will be players who buy AOE Killing Attacks just because of the Stun Lotto.

 

(Absolute value of 4 Fudge dice, plus one?)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: Post "gotchas" here

 

...I'm not sure you and I are interpreting the 'Cannot Use Targeting' modifier the same. My reading of it is that your modifiers become x1 for both Body and Stun no matter what Hit Location you roll (or target). Now' date=' I could see the argument being made that you should apply a flat x3 Stun multiplier for Killing Attacks regardless of location but it's not explicit either way...[/quote']

 

The debate at hand aside...I'm guessing that there aren't many here that share your interpretation on this particular point.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: Post "gotchas" here

 

A problem with hit locations is that they lock the ratio of stun to body. Get hit in the head, it does double Body but it also ALWAYS does 5x stun. The strongest argument I've seen for the stun lottery is that sometimes small wounds hurt a lot and sometimes deadly wounds hardly hurt at all.

 

The new way of doing KAs had me (a little) worried - because whilst I was no fan of the excesses of the stun lotto, this seemed like a step too far in the other direction - KAs in superheroic games would often be ignored...although that does depend on what average resistant defences are for your game.

 

What I quite liked about it though was that in heroic games it means that killing attacks really are deadly: the fight does not stop because the opponent is in a swoon - it stops because their head is no longer attached to their body.

 

Unfortunately Heroic games are where you are most likely to use hit locations - thereby neutralising the benefit of the new mechanic.

 

I know there is no easy answer and no pleasing all of the people all of the time, but I think what surprised me most about the new KA was how unexpected that move was - I may well have missed it but I don't recall changing the stun modifier to 1-3 as ever being suggested - let alone having any support as a solution.

 

However, we have what we have: it has been decided that the maximum stun you can get out of XDC is the same for normal and killing attacks...but that principle does not carry through to hit locations: the maximum you can get out of a KA is 5xDC, the maximum you can get out of a normal attack is 4xDC (and that is incredibly rare for all but the very smallest attacks).

 

What upsets me is therefore not the execution - I can live with it either way - but the fact that the opportunity to apply a principle has been lost, or avoided.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: Post "gotchas" here

 

Try this on for size: instead of a flat multiplier, Hit Locations grant a bonus or penalty to rolled Stun Multiplier. A head shot is 2x BODY but +2 to Stun Multiple (thus 3-5 on 1/2d6). A foot shot is 1/2x BODY and +0. The more muscular, "meaty" parts of the body (arms, thighs) might even have a -1 to Stun Multiple (minimum 1).

 

And why, oh why, didn't I think of this six months ago? :P

 

Edit: Or... or... or... Stun Multiplier Class. 1 pip, 1/2d6, 1d6-1, 1d6, etc. Head shot at +2 runs Stun Multiple from 1/2d6 to a full 1d6.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: Post "gotchas" here

 

...What I quite liked about it though was that in heroic games it means that killing attacks really are deadly: the fight does not stop because the opponent is in a swoon - it stops because their head is no longer attached to their body.

 

Unfortunately Heroic games are where you are most likely to use hit locations - thereby neutralising the benefit of the new mechanic...

 

Exactly my point.

 

...What upsets me is therefore not the execution - I can live with it either way - but the fact that the opportunity to apply a principle has been lost' date=' or avoided.[/quote']

 

Ditto. I can house-rule things to my satisfaction, as can we all. I was just surprised by what appeared to be a 'fix' being ignored entirely for hit locations. It puzzled me, considering the thought that must have gone into the 1d3 change...so I thought it may have been an oversight.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: Post "gotchas" here

 

Try this on for size: instead of a flat multiplier' date=' Hit Locations grant a bonus or penalty to rolled Stun Multiplier...[/quote']

 

This looks like it might beautifully combine solutions to both the problem that Sean mentioned regarding the uniformity of STUN results and my issues. Chris, I think you have just inspired a new house rule for me. Gonna draft an idea and pitch it to my gang.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Unfortunately, your content contains terms that we do not allow. Please edit your content to remove the highlighted words below.
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...