Post "gotchas" here

[archermoo]

Re: Post "gotchas" here

 

Oh. That's not the way it worked in 5ER? I could swear dropping Sweep/Rapid Fire to a Half-Phase action was all it ever did. Hmm.

 

That is indeed the case. Though you had to buy it separately for HTH and Ranged.

 

Edit: In fact the only real difference between the 5e version and the 6e version is that in 6e it costs 10 and applies to both HtH and Ranged, while noting that you can take a -1 Limitation on it to have it apply to only one or the other.

[nexus]

Re: Post "gotchas" here

 

Oh. That's not the way it worked in 5ER? I could swear dropping Sweep/Rapid Fire to a Half-Phase action was all it ever did. Hmm.

 

Whoops!

 

You're right, I'd conflated some of the text in my mind over the years.

[rjcurrie]

Re: Post "gotchas" here

 

Whoops!

 

You're right, I'd conflated some of the text in my mind over the years.

 

It happens to all of us. See my comments in your thread on CSLs.

[Peregrine]

Re: Post "gotchas" here

 

The Hardened Advantage no longer protects against all of Armor Piercing' date=' [i']Penetrating[/i], and Indirect. This now requires the separate Advantages Hardened (for AP), Impenetrable, and Counteracts Indirect (for Barriers "and other obstacles"). Shoring up your defenses against uncommon attacks just became a whole lot more expensive (oh, and Armor Piercing is now less expensive)!

 

IIRC, it never did. Rather, each level of Hardened protected against one of those and had to be so designated as to which one when purchased.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Post "gotchas" here

 

IIRC' date=' it never did. Rather, each level of [i']Hardened[/i] protected against one of those and had to be so designated as to which one when purchased.

 

No, you had to give a priority. So if an attack that had both Armor Piercing and Penetrating came at you, the Hardened would cancel one of them but not both. If the attack had either but not both of those Advantages, the Hardened would cancel it.

[archermoo]

Re: Post "gotchas" here

 

Whoops!

 

You're right, I'd conflated some of the text in my mind over the years.

 

I didn't notice that the -1 OCV for a 1/2 move rule was out until 5e.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Post "gotchas" here

 

No' date=' you had to give a [i']priority[/i]. So if an attack that had both Armor Piercing and Penetrating came at you, the Hardened would cancel one of them but not both. If the attack had either but not both of those Advantages, the Hardened would cancel it.

 

 

Exactly.

 

Otherwise, why would the FAQ have the following?

 

from: http://www.herogames.com/rulesFAQ.htm?ruleset=&section=&keywords=hardened&dateString=

 

If a character has a single level of Hardened on his defenses, and he’s attacked by two enemies, each using an attack with one Advantage that Hardened can counteract, does it counteract both attacks’ Advantages, or only one of the attacks?

 

Both attacks’ Advantages.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Post "gotchas" here

 

I'm still of half a mind that the wording really just needed to be changed to 'Choose the order in which Hardened stops these Advantages' and shouldn't have been split out into 3 different Advantages.

 

But, I also concede that a mere +1/4 to stop a series of +1/2 Advantages was a bit powerful.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Post "gotchas" here

 

I'm still of half a mind that the wording really just needed to be changed to 'Choose the order in which Hardened stops these Advantages' and shouldn't have been split out into 3 different Advantages.

 

But, I also concede that a mere +1/4 to stop a series of +1/2 Advantages was a bit powerful.

 

I think it should never have stopped Indirect, but I had no concern with it stopping AP and Penetrating attacks, and I think it's overkill to have three different advantages.

 

I'll stick with 35 PD, rather than 20 PD that blocks Penetrating, Indirect and AP attacks. I take an extra 2 STUN from an AP attack, and the Penetrating gets through. Given I take 15 less from unadvantaged attacks, I think I'm better off.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Post "gotchas" here

 

That's probably the middle ground that is the best place to land in.

 

Hardened stops Penetrating and Armor Piercing, you choose the priority when purchased (and it can't be changed there after). If attacked with an Attack that has both Penetrating and Armor Piercing the priority determines which it stops and which applies; otherwise Hardened will stop both if only one at a time per Attack is used.

 

That means a +1/4 Advantage stop +3/4 worth of Advantages in some fashion - a fair trade in my opinion.

 

Prevents Indirect stops Indirect.

 

Both Hardened and Prevents Indirect are +1/4.

[Chris Goodwin]

Re: Post "gotchas" here

 

See, I thought the whole 'level of Hardened stops one level AP and/or one level of Penetrating' thing was bogus.

 

The way that would have made more sense, and would have resulted in less confusion over the years, would have been if one point of Hardened defense stopped one point of Penetrating STUN, and if all points of Hardened defense were not halved by Armor Piercing (while non-Hardened defenses still were). Double Penetrating STUN is only stopped by double Hardened defense, while double Hardened defense is not halved by up to double AP.

 

 

Why I didn't think of this six months ago I'll never know.

[The Main Man]

Re: Post "gotchas" here

 

That's probably the middle ground that is the best place to land in.

 

Hardened stops Penetrating and Armor Piercing, you choose the priority when purchased (and it can't be changed there after). If attacked with an Attack that has both Penetrating and Armor Piercing the priority determines which it stops and which applies; otherwise Hardened will stop both if only one at a time per Attack is used.

 

That means a +1/4 Advantage stop +3/4 worth of Advantages in some fashion - a fair trade in my opinion.

 

Prevents Indirect stops Indirect.

 

Both Hardened and Prevents Indirect are +1/4.

 

Here's a house rule that I use, so take it for what you will:

 

I make Hardened capable of stopping up to +1/2 value of any combination of the things it can defend against, but only up to that value.

Example: Besides the obvious (AP, Pen), Hardened (in my games) could stop a Semi-Armor Piercing (+1/4), Level-1 Indirect attack (+1/4).

Once it is attacked by +3/4 it requires 2 levels.

 

Example 1: If the above attack was, say, Armor Piercing (+1/2) and Level-1 Indirect (+1/4) (or Semi-Armor Piercing (+1/4) and Level 2 Indirect (+1/2)), it would require 2 Levels to defend against both of them, otherwise the defender must choose.

 

Example 2: Level 3 Indirect (+3/4) is unique in this aspect in that it follows this logic and would indeed, under this house rule, require two levels of Hardened to defend against.

So, as said before, it's a house rule, take it or leave it.

[Lightning91]

Re: Post "gotchas" here

 

10 pt CSLs (previously 8 pts in 5er), can not be used for Mental attacks. I know this was discussed elsewhere and may not come up often, but it's a bit subtle.

[Lightning91]

Re: Post "gotchas" here

 

Apparently, Defender's reconstructive chin surgery, scheduled between 5er and 6e, was a complete success!

[Vondy]

Re: Post "gotchas" here

 

The Hardened Advantage no longer protects against all of Armor Piercing' date=' [i']Penetrating[/i], and Indirect. This now requires the separate Advantages Hardened (for AP), Impenetrable, and Counteracts Indirect (for Barriers "and other obstacles"). Shoring up your defenses against uncommon attacks just became a whole lot more expensive (oh, and Armor Piercing is now less expensive)!

 

Which logical in of itself, it rises to the level of notation vexation.

 

I do not like notation vexation.

[Beast]

Re: Post "gotchas" here

 

Having Fringe Benefit: Improved Equipment Availability in HD6

But it and Resource points are not in the players book

 

someone else asked about resource points and Steve Long said it would be in the APG

I would guess that Improved Equipment availability will be there also?

[archermoo]

Re: Post "gotchas" here

 

Having Fringe Benefit: Improved Equipment Availability in HD6

But it and Resource points are not in the players book

 

someone else asked about resource points and Steve Long said it would be in the APG

I would guess that Improved Equipment availability will be there also?

 

You do realize that the point of this thread is to point out changes in the rules from 5e to 6e that aren't necessarily immediately obvious, right?

[ghost-angel]

Re: Post "gotchas" here

 

more to the point - Hero Deisgner isn't the rules.

[archermoo]

Re: Post "gotchas" here

 

more to the point - Hero Deisgner isn't the rules.

 

One of Steve's favorite mantras.

[Beast]

Re: Post "gotchas" here

 

yep

 

what was in the core rules is now in the APG

but another ghost has been left over in HG6 which might confuse people

I have a character that uses resource points and equipment availability

when I went to update her I found that the resource points where gone

I spotted a question on it and read it

 

not everybody is going to read the book cover to cover and remember what has been pulled and has not

and seeing something left over from HD for 5th, be seen as a source of confusion

 

and yes as has been pointed out Dan is not as perfect as we or he would like to be

 

So I post it here for those that might be confused

I'm sure word will get to Dan and he will do another update to make HD6 a more perfect and bug free program as he has been doing since being hired for this job

 

I see this thread as a list of what has changed in 6th ed

and that includes HD6 when shown in the mirror to 6th

granted some of these are going to be short lived

but are gotcha's in any case

 

 

You do realize that the point of this thread is to point out changes in the rules from 5e to 6e that aren't necessarily immediately obvious' date=' right?[/quote']

[ghost-angel]

Re: Post "gotchas" here

 

Resource Points and Improved Equipment Availability were NEVER in the core rules.

Both are from Dark Champions.

So there is no change from 5E to 6E here, I suggest you take that as a possible bug to Dan.

[Beast]

Re: Post "gotchas" here

 

true

the question is

then is it to be a pale or perfect refection of them

I always saw HD to be the implemtation of those rules

that HD should have what the rules have(to what has been released to date)

 

 

more to the point - Hero Deisgner isn't the rules.

[Chris Goodwin]

Re: Post "gotchas" here

 

true

the question is

then is it to be a pale or perfect refection of them

I always saw HD to be the implemtation of those rules

that HD should have what the rules have(to what has been released to date)

 

The question is.... not for this thread.

 

As others have mentioned, this thread is for "changes in the rules from 5e to 6e that are not immediately obvious." This thread is for discussing the rules that are in the books, not HD.

 

If there's a thing that HD does that the rules don't do, take it up on the HD forums. Dan doesn't read the non-HD forums looking for HD issues.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Post "gotchas" here

 

Persistent (now a +1/4) powers can now cost End, and keep drawing End if you are Stunned. They turn off when you run out of End (which happens when you're Knocked Out unless you're using an End Reserve).

 

That's not too much of a gotcha because it simply makes a build that was illegal now legal and specifies how it behaves, but it's an easy one to miss still if you breeze over the Modifiers that aren't new and you didn't expect to change.

[ghost-angel]

Re: Post "gotchas" here

 

Yeah, that's pretty cool IMO.