Earth x DC Comics like setting

[LWhitehead]

Hi first off a little waring (this is before the sysop does it) The following posting might offend some people pleast do not take the poster as a race baiter for that person isn't, the poster is trying to find an interesting setting for superhero with the fact that I want them to question somethings

 

 

This setting is inpired by Earth X by DC Comics one were the Axis powers won WW2, the POD is that Churchill was killed in 1931 by an auto in New York. Which lead to the battle of Dunkirk in our world they got away in great evack in anything that floats, this was Churchill's idea in this world it would have bin a mass surender and capture.

 

Now Canada would be the only free nation in North America, and Quebec would home to Free France. It's current timeframe and Canada is still in it's Golden Age that why the heroes are modern version of Golden Age heroes like in Infinty Inc, the Nazis have there own version JLA.

 

I need help with the setting not characters,

 

LW

[Clonus]

Re: Earth x DC Comics like setting

 

Um...if the United States isn't "free", there's no way Canada would be.

[Certified]

Re: Earth x DC Comics like setting

 

Sure they could. Here's an example the Axis invades the continental US. After a series of defeats US forces are forced to evacuate inland. This modern Canada includes several northern states after having aiding in fortified the US position.

 

For the record I doubt it's feasible as well I would expect a strong narrative to explain how Canada remained unoccupied when the US fell.

[Agent 13]

Re: Earth x DC Comics like setting

 

Which lead to the battle of Dunkirk in our world they got away in great evack in anything that floats' date=' this was Churchill's idea in this world it would have bin a mass surender and capture.[/quote']

 

As opposed to the real world, where Admiral Sir Bertram Ramsay organized the evacuation?

[LWhitehead]

Re: Earth x DC Comics like setting

 

Well maybe I goofed on the Dunkirk evca, but I'm right about Canada basicly becoming the head of what's left of the British Empire, they plan not leave anything for the Nazis if Operation Sea Lion was succussful. In our world British Defence conractors, the royal family and the european royals that were there at the time, Naval and Airforce would evac to Canada.

 

 

Now back to the setting, in the USA under Axis control since the 50's Alaska is a White Russian nation give the fact during the 1950's invasion that the White Russian population living there drove the Nazis back,

 

Cold Spring Harbor is were the painful medical experments are done in this world,

 

LW

[wcw43921]

Re: Earth x DC Comics like setting

 

What happened between Germany and Russia in this setting? If Germany didn't invade Russia, I think Russia would have eventually invaded Germany, no matter what the outcome of the war in Western Europe. America is over 3000 miles of ocean away--Russia is all but at Germany's doorstep. Any German campaign against the Americas should wait until things are settled with Russia first, one way or the other.

 

Sorry this isn't much help, but I believe it's a legitimate question.

[Ian Mackinder]

Re: Earth x DC Comics like setting

 

Really need a detailed timeline here. From the premature death of Churchill to the failure of the Dunkirk Retreat to a successful Operation Sea Lion covers an awful lot of ground, with HUGE gaps in between. One event does not inevitably lead to or include the others, after all.

[lemming]

Re: Earth x DC Comics like setting

 

Quite a few alternate histories were developed from the premise in Churchill had been killed. I'll have to see if I can dig them up, I have at least one of them here.

[bubba smith]

Re: Earth x DC Comics like setting

 

Um...if the United States isn't "free"' date=' there's no way Canada would be.[/quote']

you may have a point any evacuating alies wouould head for anada from new york so the nazis would raid there too

[Ian Mackinder]

Re: Earth x DC Comics like setting

 

Quite a few alternate histories were developed from the premise in Churchill had been killed. I'll have to see if I can dig them up' date=' I have at least one of them here.[/quote']

 

'Patton's Spaceship' by John Barnes is, I think, a pretty good 'Nazi Germany Conquers The World' type AH.

The notion is that a group of ultra-nasties with cross-timeline travel assist the Nazis in various ways. such as helping them START the war with Me 262s. Type XXI U-boats and TV-guided V-1s. They don't assassinate Churchill, but they do "get" Roosevelt (in the 1930s) and Stalin (early in Barbarossa).

[Lawnmower Boy]

Re: Earth x DC Comics like setting

 

In the great tradition of the Silver Age, I'd say just do it. There's nothing tremendously implausible about Germany winning World War II. Just say that Churchill died, Britain capitulated, Russia fell, and America was invaded. If you decide that you need some kind of monkeyshines to explain it all,spackle that plot hole later. Let the PCs borrow a time machine or whatnot and discover the Nazis' secret time travelling/spacefaring/lost land/immortal ancient allies.

As for Canada being indepedent, we're clearly defended by a superpowered Gordie Howe, and those European Nazis are too afraid to go into the corner with him.

 

Or Canada is holding the world's supply of unobtainium hostage. Whatever.

[Ian Mackinder]

Re: Earth x DC Comics like setting

 

In the great tradition of the Silver Age' date=' I'd say just do it. There's nothing tremendously implausible about Germany winning World War II..[/quote']

 

Depends on what you mean by "winning". As things stood, Nazxi doctrines notwithstanding, and barring any Deus Ex Machinas, the absolute best Nazi Germany could have achieved was to retain control of a big chunk of Europe and Russia, with a resulting 'Cold War' situation with the US and/or the Commonwealth and/or whatever remained of Russia.

 

They COULD have taken Britain, but just getting their troops onto shore would have required a huge allocation of military power - the absence of which would have been dearly felt VERY soon thereafter in the Mediterranean and on the Eastern Front.

Plus, winning the Battle of Britian was only the first necessary step - they would have had to establish AND maintain air superiority over the English Channel and the invasion zones, and then neutralize the entire Royal Navy. Then get their troops across the Channel, most of whom would be making the trip in towed barges - and the quantity of shipping this would take was itself more than a little worrying to Sea Lion's planners.

 

*****

 

Of course, much also depends on the group all this is being set up for. If the Players aren't big on in-depth enquiry (or simply look forward to busting some Nazi heads), you could probably get away with "This is a timeline where Nazi Germany won ww2 amd conquered the world". Thus, no problem.

 

However, if the Players have any real interest in militaria and history, then they will ask awkward questions, such as when / how / why the divergances took place. The really cluey ones might then start picking holes in whatever answers are given.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Earth x DC Comics like setting

 

Depends on what you mean by "winning". As things stood, Nazxi doctrines notwithstanding, and barring any Deus Ex Machinas, the absolute best Nazi Germany could have achieved was to retain control of a big chunk of Europe and Russia, with a resulting 'Cold War' situation with the US and/or the Commonwealth and/or whatever remained of Russia.

 

They COULD have taken Britain, but just getting their troops onto shore would have required a huge allocation of military power - the absence of which would have been dearly felt VERY soon thereafter in the Mediterranean and on the Eastern Front.

 

You can "what if" a lot of issues away, especially given that you have 65 years to work with since the end of WWII in the real world. Maybe Hitler took better advice and minimized the fronts open at one time. Maybe Hitler died in WW I, and the Nazi figurehead replacing him was less volatile and more conservative in his strategy. Maybe FDR died of polio, and the US was lead by an isolationist who didn't undertake the lend-lease program.

 

Perhaps it still took until 1945 to take Europe and Britain, and consolidate power there. After this, maybe Germany turns his attention to Russia or Africa, one step at a time. After consolidating its hold on Europe, Asia and Africa (and signing numerous treaties with North and South America) in the 1960's, they turn their sights on the Americas. [The invasion could begin the same day the Beatles landed in the US in our timeline.]

 

After this, there's many years of fighting in the Americas - perhaps victory over the US occured only a few years ago, say 1999, and Canada has ben able to hold out so far as Germany solidified its hold over the US. The bondaries may well have been redrawn, as someone else has pointed out.

 

As to the PC's asking awkward questions, how accurate and detailed is the history information available after 70 years of war in various capacities? Often, a good in-game answer for "that doesn't make any sense" is that it is the situation in which the PC's find themselves - perhaps they don't know all the facts, but they can see the results.

[Clonus]

Re: Earth x DC Comics like setting

 

However, if the Players have any real interest in militaria and history, then they will ask awkward questions, such as when / how / why the divergances took place. The really cluey ones might then start picking holes in whatever answers are given.

 

Bah. Once you explain about how Doctor Pretorius built a tunneling machine and Ubermann spearheaded the invasion into Britain and then Gravitar was on board the orbital bomber that dropped the zombie bomb on New York city, people will stop nitpicking. Well except for how Canada remained independent when it was actually a belligerent in the war and the most likely first place for the invading forces to land.

[Ian Mackinder]

Re: Earth x DC Comics like setting

 

Yeah, sure, you can fudge away anything that way. No problem.

 

It is just that, being a student of history and fairly picky about backgrounds in general, I prefer genuine detail on those matters. As for dismissing the PCs' arguments as to whether something could or could happen, I would not be quite so cavalier.

 

Watch someone TRY to run an AH campaign where one of the group is a History teacher (with a special interest in ww2) and a couple of the others are ex-military. Trust me, it ain't pretty.

[bubba smith]

Re: Earth x DC Comics like setting

 

the GM may have to ask the history buffs to set aside their knowledge of real world history while gaming inorder not to disrupt procedings

[assault]

Re: Earth x DC Comics like setting

 

Meh. Enough Nazi super-gorillas and all your problems go away...

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: Earth x DC Comics like setting

 

Yeah, sure, you can fudge away anything that way. No problem.

 

It is just that, being a student of history and fairly picky about backgrounds in general, I prefer genuine detail on those matters. As for dismissing the PCs' arguments as to whether something could or could happen, I would not be quite so cavalier.

 

Watch someone TRY to run an AH campaign where one of the group is a History teacher (with a special interest in ww2) and a couple of the others are ex-military. Trust me, it ain't pretty.

 

the GM may have to ask the history buffs to set aside their knowledge of real world history while gaming inorder not to disrupt procedings

 

I go with bubba smith on this one. I know enough about economics and business to be able to tell you how pathetically flawed the price lists in most fantasy games are, but that's not why I play them. Most of us are well aware the cube/square law precludes Giants and Dragons, but we don't bring it up since it detracts from, rather than adding to, the game.

[Ian Mackinder]

Re: Earth x DC Comics like setting

 

Well, if trying to run a game with some attention to historical detail, it is something to keep in mind.

 

Anyhow, given this is a superhero AH background, one simple idea is to say that the Nazis had an early and very substantial lead in locating. fielding and (very likely) CREATING super-types. There is the Deus Ex Machina that enables the Nazis to win.

 

The very nature of Nazi R&D favoured this sort of thing. There was a strong emphasis on "fringe" sciences and superweapons, various groups working in isolation at cross purposes or in parallel, shuffling and reshuffling of projects depending on the whims of the leadership (not just Hitler, mind you), and an assortment of scientists (some "with issues") pursuing particular obsessions. Plus, of course, the willingnsss of certain groups to experiment on humans ....

 

All it takes is a couple of very lucky breaks, and the Nazis could have been pretty much mass-producing Ubermensch. Or Powered Armour. Or lasers. Or Ubermensch in Powered Armour, with friickin' lasers in their heads.

[Kenn]

Re: Earth x DC Comics like setting

 

Also, remember Germany wasn't alone. Going with the "Hitler's replacement was more conservative" idea, and then letting Italy and Germany be more effective for whatever reason ("Soon after Pearl Harbor, Japan attacked southern California. Much of Hollywood was destroyed and several movie stars were killed in the raid. America, its film industry crippled, was dealt a morale crushing blow") could help explain why the U.S. was defeated.

[SSgt Baloo]

Re: Earth x DC Comics like setting

 

Just say that Churchill died' date=' Britain capitulated, Russia fell, and America was invaded. If you decide that you need some kind of monkeyshines to explain it all,spackle that plot hole later.[/quote']

 

Let's hear it for plothole spackulation!

[clsage]

Re: Earth x DC Comics like setting

 

Meh. Enough Nazi super-gorillas and all your problems go away...

 

Would that I could rep you at the moment sir...

 

-Carl-

[clsage]

Re: Earth x DC Comics like setting

 

What happened between Germany and Russia in this setting? If Germany didn't invade Russia' date=' I think Russia would have eventually invaded Germany, no matter what the outcome of the war in Western Europe. America is over 3000 miles of ocean away--Russia is all but at Germany's doorstep. Any German campaign against the Americas should wait until things are settled with Russia first, one way or the other. [/quote']

 

You could potentially solve (or at least temper) this by taking the route that was used in the "Storm Front" episode(s) of "Star Trek: Enterprise" where Lenin is described as dying in 1916, prior to his return to Russia. His failure to become a central figure amongst revolutionary forces in Russia leads to the failure of such efforts. Thus there was no "strong Russia" to combat the forces of National Socialism in the 1940's which allowed German forces to concentrate their efforts elsewhere.....

 

Or possibly use an alternate world concept that I have yet to throw into my Team Norfolk campaign:

 

 

The generals of both the Soviet Union and Nazi Germany choose to eliminate the figureheads of Hitler and Stalin and combine their efforts to create "The Greater State" (as the areas under their control become named).

 

 

 

Just my slightly greater than $.02US.

 

-Carl-

[Ian Mackinder]

Re: Earth x DC Comics like setting

 

Also' date=' remember Germany wasn't alone. Going with the "Hitler's replacement was more conservative" idea, and then letting Italy and Germany be more effective for whatever reason ("Soon after Pearl Harbor, Japan attacked southern California. Much of Hollywood was destroyed and several movie stars were killed in the raid. America, its film industry crippled, was dealt a morale crushing blow") could help explain why the U.S. was defeated.[/quote']

 

Which totally ignores the fact that Japan needed oil more than anything else. With the US's oil embargo (put in place because of Japanese atrocities in China), they HAD to grab a guaranteed oil supply, and the Dutch East Indies (now Indonesia) was their single best option. Anything else was optional.

[SSgt Baloo]

Re: Earth x DC Comics like setting

 

Which totally ignores the fact that Japan needed oil more than anything else. With the US's oil embargo (put in place because of Japanese atrocities in China)' date=' they HAD to grab a guaranteed oil supply, and the Dutch East Indies (now Indonesia) was their single best option. Anything else was optional.[/quote']

 

If Germany had put greater emphasis in the Northern Africa theater of war, they might have captured enough oil fields to supply not only themselves but their Japanese allies as well. A Nazi foothold in the Middle-East might also have afforded the Germans greater access to Iranian and Iraqi resources and manpower (the Nazis cultivated many contacts in that part of the world before and during WW II.)