Earth x DC Comics like setting

[Ian Mackinder]

Re: Earth x DC Comics like setting

 

If Germany had put greater emphasis in the Northern Africa theater of war' date=' they might have captured enough oil fields to supply not only themselves but their Japanese allies as well. A Nazi foothold in the Middle-East might also have afforded the Germans greater access to Iranian and Iraqi resources and manpower (the Nazis cultivated many contacts in that part of the world before and during WW II.)[/quote']

 

Only problem there is that Nazi Germany wasn't big on sharing, or sticking to deals (especially those involving "lesser races", in which category Asiatics definitely fell).

 

They successfully set up an alliance with Imperial Japan because both had a definite paranoia about the Soviet Union. Then Germany turned around and started ww2 with the Soviets as an ally (really just a continuation of their covert partnership during Germany's rearmament in the 1930s). That surprise really threw the Japanese, and led to their relatively low profile (other than in China) early on in the war.

 

Besides, it isn't just controlling the oilfields, it is having the means to use them, and to ship their products where they are needed.

 

... And, to ship oil from the Middle East would have necessitated a route that went through Indonesia anyhow. Why go so far, when there were oilfields MUCH closer that you could control yourself?

[Ian Mackinder]

Re: Earth x DC Comics like setting

 

Or possibly use an alternate world concept that I have yet to throw into my Team Norfolk campaign:

 

 

The generals of both the Soviet Union and Nazi Germany choose to eliminate the figureheads of Hitler and Stalin and combine their efforts to create "The Greater State" (as the areas under their control become named).

 

 

 

Just my slightly greater than $.02US.

 

-Carl-

 

Perhaps not as far-fetched as some would think.

 

When Germany began covert rearmament in the early 1930s, it did so via a secret partnership deal with the Soviet Union. It involved a number of factories, research establishments and "flying schools" in quiet parts of Russia, mostly manned by Germans, with some Soviet "observers". The basics of Blitzkrieg were developed there, and it is not so hard to believe that a 'dialogue' might have opened up between certain factions on either side.

[LWhitehead]

Re: Earth x DC Comics like setting

 

Well in this setting Churchill got killed in 1931 by auto in New York, which ment that England didn't have very strong leadership during WW2,

 

 

LW

[Ian Mackinder]

Re: Earth x DC Comics like setting

 

Well in this setting Churchill got killed in 1931 by auto in New York' date=' which ment that England didn't have very strong leadership during WW2,[/quote']

 

... Which notion I have trouble with.

 

Who is to say what relative unknown may have taken up the leadership of the Commonwealth if he didn't? Churchill certainly played a pivotal role and I do not denigrate his significance, but there are also a number of major military blunders that can be laid at his door. P;lus a number of things he WANTED to do, which thankfully he didn't.

 

In that very general respect, he could be rather like Hitler - both men tended to actively interfere with how their generals and admirals wanted to run things, and not always for the better either. Main differance being that Churchill eventually learned to stand back and let his people handle the detail work, and Hitler didn't.

 

The fundamental point is that Churchill was not an irreplaceable super-genius. He made some very good decisions AND some incredibly bad ones.

[Yansuf]

Re: Earth x DC Comics like setting

 

The fundamental point is that Churchill was not an irreplaceable super-genius. He made some very good decisions AND some incredibly bad ones.

 

Sir Winston was probably about as good a general as Saddam (I assume most people here have seen or read General Swartzkoph's description) but he didn't need to be. His greatest contribution to the war effort was his ability inspire the British people to fight on, no matter how bad things looked.

If you have never heard his speech ending "..we will never surrender!" I suggest that you do so. (It comes over much stronger listening to it than merely reading it.)

Of course it is possible another leader might have arisen to carry Britain through "its darkest hour", but it is also possible that Chamberlain might have replaced by someone like him. For the purpose of "what if" either is reasonable.

[Ian Mackinder]

Re: Earth x DC Comics like setting

 

Sir Winston was probably about as good a general as Saddam (I assume most people here have seen or read General Swartzkoph's description) but he didn't need to be. His greatest contribution to the war effort was his ability inspire the British people to fight on, no matter how bad things looked.

If you have never heard his speech ending "..we will never surrender!" I suggest that you do so. (It comes over much stronger listening to it than merely reading it.)

Of course it is possible another leader might have arisen to carry Britain through "its darkest hour", but it is also possible that Chamberlain might have replaced by someone like him. For the purpose of "what if" either is reasonable.

 

Yes, I know the speech quite well, it is very inspirational.

 

Note that when Churchill made that particular speech, he knew (courtesy of Ultra) that the Germans had cancelled Operation Sea Lion. The fix was already in, and Churchill knew it.

 

If aiming for a 'Nazis Win ww2" AH, probably one of the most significant changes is the British success with cracking Enigma. They had some very lucky breaks, and a lot of help from Polish Intelligence and several other groups. If something had gone wrong there, or if the Germans' total confidence in Enigma had been shaken early on, it may not have lost the war for the Allies but it certainly would have made winning a LOT more difficult.

[Clonus]

Re: Earth x DC Comics like setting

 

I have a long list of ways that superhumans and supertech could shift the balance of World War II. The coup d'etat by a cabal opposed to FDR's attempts to get the United States into the war Ninja assassinating Mao, the flying aircraft carrier that won the Battle of Britain, the submarine deployed giant robot that attacks the fuel tankage at Pearl Harbor, the successful abduction of King Edward VIII, the superspy who steals Britain's radar technology and Bletchly Park's cryptography, the orbital bomber that drops a dirty bomb on New York City, the tunneling machine that creates an invasion route underneath the channel, the invocation of Scylla and Charybdis to block the strait of Gibraltar, the alliance with the Atlanteans that gets them to attack Allied shipping, the artificial tsunami that wipes out Los Angeles, the Wendigo that interferes with the construction of the Alaska Highway, the destruction of Hoover Dam and so on.

[SSgt Baloo]

Re: Earth x DC Comics like setting

 

Maybe Nazi Germany had more giant green Nazi gorillas in that timeline?

 

[Jasmin]

Re: Earth x DC Comics like setting

 

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[Lawnmower Boy]

Re: Earth x DC Comics like setting

 

Yes, I know the speech quite well, it is very inspirational.

 

Note that when Churchill made that particular speech, he knew (courtesy of Ultra) that the Germans had cancelled Operation Sea Lion. The fix was already in, and Churchill knew it.

 

If aiming for a 'Nazis Win ww2" AH, probably one of the most significant changes is the British success with cracking Enigma. They had some very lucky breaks, and a lot of help from Polish Intelligence and several other groups. If something had gone wrong there, or if the Germans' total confidence in Enigma had been shaken early on, it may not have lost the war for the Allies but it certainly would have made winning a LOT more difficult.

 

All three of the great Churchillian speeches ("Blood, toil, tears and sweat"; "We shall never surrender"; and "This was their finest hour" were given over a ten day period in June, well before the postponement of Sealion in late September.

 

And giant green gorillas. What other explanation do you need?

[Ian Mackinder]

Re: Earth x DC Comics like setting

 

All three of the great Churchillian speeches ("Blood, toil, tears and sweat"; "We shall never surrender"; and "This was their finest hour" were given over a ten day period in June, well before the postponement of Sealion in late September.

 

My understanding us different.

 

Sea Lion's OFFICIAL postponement may have been in September, but it had been at a dead end for quite a while before then. The Germans simply could not muster anywhere near enough watercraft for the venture, even if they requisitioned every single riverine barge and tug in Occupied Europe (which would have severely impacted their transport infrastructure if they had).

[SSgt Baloo]

Re: Earth x DC Comics like setting

 

My understanding us different.

 

Sea Lion's OFFICIAL postponement may have been in September, but it had been at a dead end for quite a while before then. The Germans simply could not muster anywhere near enough watercraft for the venture, even if they requisitioned every single riverine barge and tug in Occupied Europe (which would have severely impacted their transport infrastructure if they had).

 

In a world with Supers, it's not inconceivable that among Der Führer's minions might be an Überschiffserbauer (Super-Shipwright) with a dedicated corps of skilled laborers to rapidly build the necessary vessels. With giant green Nazi Gorillas to do the heavy lifting, Operation Seelöwe might have gotten off on schedule.

[Clonus]

Re: Earth x DC Comics like setting

 

In a world with Supers' date=' it's not inconceivable that among Der Führer's minions might be an Überschiffserbauer (Super-Shipwright) with a dedicated corps of skilled laborers to rapidly build the necessary vessels. With giant green Nazi Gorillas to do the heavy lifting, Operation Seelöwe might have gotten off on schedule.[/quote']

 

Assuming they win the Battle of Britain thanks to the flying aircraft carrier loaded with female pilots called "Valkyries", it becomes likely that Sea Lion will be tried. Although even with air superiority it is unlikely to succeed (without the giant green gorillas) even a failed Sealion would actually be a big win for Hitler because it keeps him from attacking Russia for at least a year. As I recall, I had the invasion of Britain bog down due to logistical problems, until the boring machine opened up a way into Britain that wasn't vulnerable to the British Navy.

[assault]

Re: Earth x DC Comics like setting

 

Although it doesn't involve gorillas, it might be possible to take out the Royal Navy by faking an invasion to draw them out of harbour, and then trashing them from the air. Once they're gone, the real invasion can go ahead.

 

But I like Clonus' approach. Repped.

[Lawnmower Boy]

Re: Earth x DC Comics like setting

 

Although it doesn't involve gorillas, it might be possible to take out the Royal Navy by faking an invasion to draw them out of harbour, and then trashing them from the air. Once they're gone, the real invasion can go ahead.

 

But I like Clonus' approach. Repped.

 

Improbable in the real world where the RN kept 40 destroyers and rapidly-growing fleet of fast attack craft in the Channel in the hope of drowning the entire Wehrmacht. But with their fleet of super-hydrogen filled, broadcast-powered dirigibles, complete with Fifth Rayguns and made entirely of transparent aluminium? Not a problem.

[Ian Mackinder]

Re: Earth x DC Comics like setting

 

... With frickin' lasers in their heads!!!

[LWhitehead]

Re: Earth x DC Comics like setting

 

Yes this is a setting were WW2 was won by Axis powers, and yes they had there own Supers. Now currently in occupied America since the 1950's there is a a Nazis version of the JLA,

 

I also pointed out that Canada is free and the head of the true British Empire,

 

 

LW

[Clonus]

Re: Earth x DC Comics like setting

 

Yes this is a setting were WW2 was won by Axis powers, and yes they had there own Supers. Now currently in occupied America since the 1950's there is a a Nazis version of the JLA,

 

I also pointed out that Canada is free and the head of the true British Empire,

 

 

LW

 

You really need to figure out how that happened. Maybe the British atomic weapons program (which was in fact located in Canada at first until it was subsumed by the American one), produced a Superman-level superhuman who blew up a German city and threatened to keep going unless they agreed to a truce?

[Lawnmower Boy]

Re: Earth x DC Comics like setting

 

You really need to figure out how that happened. Maybe the British atomic weapons program (which was in fact located in Canada at first until it was subsumed by the American one)' date=' produced a Superman-level superhuman who blew up a German city and threatened to keep going unless they agreed to a truce?[/quote']

 

I'd make a Red Green/duct tape joke if Parliament hadn't made them illegal.

 

(And if it hasn't, what the heck is it waiting for?)