Abilities Discussion

[Certified]

Re: Abilities Discussion

 

Well' date=' I would, but unfortunately I'm slavishly restricting myself to my character concept. Gila Monster not understand Hadouken. Gila Monster not understand Elemental shields. Gila Monster slash with Gila hands. Then bad guys no come back. Nice people buy Gila cheesecake with flies on top. Gila happy [/quote']

 

Might has a block called Retaliation maybe this would work.

[Curufea]

Re: Abilities Discussion

 

Has anyone thought about stating up the abilities in 6e?

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Abilities Discussion

 

Has anyone thought about stating up the abilities in 6e?

 

I believe there is a planned book by DoJ to do just that. Nice tie in opportunity.

[Steve Long]

Re: Abilities Discussion

 

First, thanx for the info Netzilla! I hadn't thought at all about looking into low-level abilities for Frameworks other than Munitions for my main. Might be worth a little research to see if I can find an appropriate Power in some other Framework to complement what I've got. I've got plenty of ways to shoot people; some variety might come in handy.

 

Second:

Has anyone thought about stating up the abilities in 6e?

 

When we do the Champions Online Roleplaying Game early next year, my plan is to write up every single available Power, Advantage, etc. from the MMO. Of course, not all are going to fit into the HERO System precisely as-is -- the MMO's mechanics work differently, and can use the computer to track levels of detail that would grind a PnP RPG session to a halt -- but I can come pretty close for most of 'em.

[ajackson]

Re: Abilities Discussion

 

First' date=' thanx for the info Netzilla! I hadn't thought at all about looking into low-level abilities for Frameworks other than Munitions for my main. Might be worth a little research to see if I can find an appropriate Power in some other Framework to complement what I've got. I've got plenty of ways to shoot people; some variety might come in handy.[/quote']

I don't recall munitions having any terribly interesting passives; what do you have in your passive slot? Given favored stats for munitions, lightning reflexes (martial arts) might prove worthwhile.

[Steve Long]

Re: Abilities Discussion

 

I don't recall munitions having any terribly interesting passives; what do you have in your passive slot? Given favored stats for munitions, lightning reflexes (martial arts) might prove worthwhile.

 

The only passive I've got is Killer Instinct, which gives me energy back whenever I get a crit. That lets me sustain fire on Powers like Two-Gun Mojo for a good long time. Loads o' fun.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Abilities Discussion

 

The only passive I've got is Killer Instinct' date=' which gives me energy back whenever I get a crit, which lets me sustain fire on Powers like Two-Gun Mojo for a good long time. Loads o' fun. [/quote']

 

Yeah, I've had that experience too w/ John Wrath...Killer Instinct seems to work especially well with 2GM. I find that I tend to favor 2GM not because its my best power, but because its so sustainable.

 

I have another low-level character, MetaCyber, that also has 2GM and its good, but no where near as sustainable without KI.

[Steve Long]

Re: Abilities Discussion

 

Some commentators on the CO boards seem to favor Assault Rifle over 2GM. I don't have Assault Rifle (yet... and maybe never if I can start picking powers from other sets, as previously discussed ), so I have no data, but I like 2GM so much I probably wouldn't switch to AR even if objectively it's slightly better on DPS. It just fits the character perfectly, and I'm more interested in having fun than min-maxing.

[ajackson]

Re: Abilities Discussion

 

2GM is a good power for power replacers; a 6.5% chance of a special is a lot more useful when you're making attacks every 0.5 seconds than when you're doing it every 2 seconds. Accelerated Metabolism might let you use 2GM pretty much constantly, at least when not blocking.

 

If you don't have one, I'd strongly consider a block replacement slot. Given the character's style, retaliation (might) fits best, though in absolute terms another power might be better. A key feature of retaliation is that it's a damage boost on your next shot, so it's good to have a next shot does a single large hit. Frag Grenade and Rocket look appealing.

 

Killer Instinct appears to be an unslotted power. Strongly consider something for your passive slot -- lightning reflexes isn't generally considered the strongest defensive passive, but it it's based on dexterity and fits your theme. One of the Focus buffs in martial arts, assuming they work with guns (unknown, I've never used them) would also have potential and could fit your theme.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Abilities Discussion

 

After not being able to play for a while, I got in some good quality play the last few days with Wrath and went from 15 to 17.

 

I picked up Lead Tempest, and its pretty sweet. I can chain it twice if at full END, and it helps clear a room, though I draw a lot of hate when I use it.

 

It also looks really really cool. Whoever made the Munitions set was obviously a fan of Equilibrium.

 

However, I now find myself in the unusual situation of having a new power render one of my other powers basically unnecessary and two of my other powers now only get used occasionally. However, I can't respec them away because I need them to meet the minimum count for Lead Tempest.

 

At this point, I really don't need any more powers and in fact don't really need at least one of and perhaps two of the ones I have. What I want are Advantages.

 

I really wish the point system were more open ended.

[Zed-F]

Re: Abilities Discussion

 

You do start to get more advantages once you get to higher character levels. At a certain point you stop getting new talent picks and start getting advantage picks instead.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Abilities Discussion

 

You do start to get more advantages once you get to higher character levels. At a certain point you stop getting new talent picks and start getting advantage picks instead.

 

Good to know. Currently, I've dumped most of my Advantage points in getting Regen to Rank 3 to improve my survivability. I'm happy with that choice, but my attacks are starting to feel anemic and I have to wonder if I might have been smarter to increase my offense instead to knock foes out of the fight sooner and thus be exposed to damage for a shorter timeframe.

 

On the other hand I've found that my regen rate allows me to often survive long enough to take down foes that I probably shouldn't be able to whittle down by myself, so maybe not. Things either kill me quick or I kill them slow. Not sure if thats the motto I'd self elect but there it is.

[firesnakearies]

Re: Abilities Discussion

 

I have a bunch of Force powers, plus Empathic Healing, Ego Hold, Immolation, and Teleport. I am very happy with all of it. Force is a really fun powerset, and the few things I've cherry-picked from Telepathy, Telekinesis, and Fire so far work really well with it and fill out the gaps in the framework nicely.

 

I've never felt the need or desire to retcon anything on my main character Intensity (really the only one I've played much at all past the tutorial). So lucky me, I guess!

 

It's weird too, because I almost ALWAYS play melee-only guys in pretty much every game. But this time, Force just struck me as cool and enjoyable to play, and I went with it.

 

Teleport is AMAZING. Especially since I learned that I can teleport away to relative safety, and immediately start healing myself with Empathic Healing, while in mid-teleport, or while drifting in the air post-teleport.

[Fedifensor]

Re: Abilities Discussion

 

I picked up Lead Tempest, and its pretty sweet. I can chain it twice if at full END, and it helps clear a room, though I draw a lot of hate when I use it.

 

It also looks really really cool. Whoever made the Munitions set was obviously a fan of Equilibrium.

I just saw Equilibrium tonight. Very interesting movie, though I wonder if I'm the only one who thought the fight scenes (particularly the ones with the 'named' foes) were too short.

 

I may pick up Lead Tempest next level, though its a pretty expensive power and a bit random in the destruction.

 

 

However, I picked up Orbital Cannon at level 26, and it's now maxed out at Rank 2 with Anvil of Dawn at level 28. While I have Dexterity and Ego as superstats, almost every item I have raises Recovery. With enough Recovery to fire Orbital Cannon as my opening volley, the power is amazing. Henchmen generally die from the initial blast, and many villains don't have the sense or speed to get away from the continuing blast of Anvil of Dawn before they get pasted.

 

The best part...I can throw this every 30 seconds. If I were to take on the spawn without Orbital Cannon, it would take at least that long to finish off the typical group (3 henchmen or 1 henchman and 1 villain) and get enough health and energy back to go after the next group. I've gone through entire missions where all I do is start Orbital Cannon and then block with Force Shield until the enemies drop.

[Phil]

Re: Abilities Discussion

 

I've found that I can have similar impact with the Ego Storm AoE DoT power. I just fire it off and sit back and block, and it will toast entire mobs of henchmen of at least Level +3 without troubling me, frequently take down villains too, and make significant inroads into Master/Supervillains. I've got it enhanced to Rank 2, with a modifier that means it runs indepedently, which is why I'm able to block or activate another attack while it spits out ego-death!Occasionally I need to fire a few END-generating shots to keep it fuelled up, but otherwise it's truly monstrous.

 

I keep expecting it to be the next power to be rebalanced (god, how I hate the non-word "nerf"!) but it's not happened in the past 2 patches!

[SvZurich]

Re: Abilities Discussion

 

I mainly spend my advantages on maxed defense, maxed heal, and the special abilities for most powers, taking only one attack to rank 2. Works very well so far. On my main, Dr. Kara Lokidottir (Might) only Uppercut will be taken to rank 2.

[Steve Long]

Re: Abilities Discussion

 

I picked up Lead Tempest, and its pretty sweet. I can chain it twice if at full END, and it helps clear a room, though I draw a lot of hate when I use it.

 

It also looks really really cool. Whoever made the Munitions set was obviously a fan of Equilibrium.

 

However, I now find myself in the unusual situation of having a new power render one of my other powers basically unnecessary and two of my other powers now only get used occasionally. However, I can't respec them away because I need them to meet the minimum count for Lead Tempest.

 

At this point, I really don't need any more powers and in fact don't really need at least one of and perhaps two of the ones I have. What I want are Advantages.

 

I really wish the point system were more open ended.

 

 

In general I can agree with all of these statements, KS. However, given all the fussing that players of any MMO (not just this one) get into when things are supposedly not balanced to begin with, are changed/rebalanced/nerfed, etc., etc., I'm not sure any MMO company is going to want to put up with the colossal headache of trying to balance a more "pure" point-based game.

 

Sure, I'd love to be able to redesign my main to just have the 4-5 powers I want with the ranks/Advantages I want... but I would not want to be the game designer trying to balance the game where that's possible for thousands and thousands of players in both PvE and PvP.

 

And as someone pointed out, after the mid-20s or so you get either a new Power or a rank/Advantage every level -- no more stat boosts or what have you. So you get to puff things up a good bit then.

[Steve Long]

Re: Abilities Discussion

 

I wonder if I'm the only one who thought the fight scenes (particularly the ones with the 'named' foes) were too short.

 

You're not. It's not a bad dystopia story at all, all things considered, but there need to be like 10-20 more gun kata fight scenes.

 

I get that they're expensive as hell to do, probably. But generally speaking, IMO creators of action and superhero movies need to get it into their heads that what really makes these movies fun are the fight/action scenes, not the in-between times.

 

However... I am clearly verging off-topic. Apologies.

[Steve Long]

Re: Abilities Discussion

 

I mainly spend my advantages on maxed defense, maxed heal, and the special abilities for most powers, taking only one attack to rank 2. Works very well so far. On my main, Dr. Kara Lokidottir (Might) only Uppercut will be taken to rank 2.

 

My main is very much a "glass cannon," with lots of offensive options and relatively little in the way of defense (just Lightning Reflexes and Retaliation, really).

 

I'm currently experimenting with an alt build that's also mainly Munitions, but with a greater emphasis on defense/survivability. He's only 17 but has Regeneration, which seems to be working well so far. Eventually I'll give him Retaliation too I suppose, but beyond that I'm sorta stumped at present. I prefer for defense abilities to be "passive" (always there, not needing to be activated or used, etc.) for the most part... and in CO you only get one slot for powers like that. I'm not sure what sort of other defensive powers are out there that would suit me; I haven't come across many so far. Anyone have any suggestions?

[Phil]

Re: Abilities Discussion

 

And as someone pointed out, after the mid-20s or so you get either a new Power or a rank/Advantage every level -- no more stat boosts or what have you. So you get to puff things up a good bit then.

 

But you can't please all the people all the time. My L32 mentalist doesn't want any new powers, but she could sure use some more END/REC! :-)

[Phil]

Re: Abilities Discussion

 

I prefer for defense abilities to be "passive" (always there' date=' not needing to be activated or used, etc.) for the most part... and in CO you only get one slot for powers like that. I'm not sure what sort of other defensive powers are out there that would suit me; I haven't come across many so far. Anyone have any suggestions?[/quote']

 

Yes, it's frustrating that it's really hard to build a high DEF character. Guess all you can do is put CON as one of your super-stats and pick up damage resistance enhancements.

 

My main has Lightning Reflexes as the passive, and with Dex as a super-stat I have 50+% Dodge chance and high Avoidance. When I activate Masterful Dodge (15 seconds on, 90 seconds cool down), my Dodge chance leaps up to 250% and my avoidance goes up a big whack as well. If I block with Telekinetic Shield as well, letting my Ego Storm rage around me, I remember on more than one occasion just taking 1 damage per blow, albeit that they might have been minion blows.

 

If I remember correctly at Level 32 I've maxed Lightning Reflexes to Rank 3, but Masterful Dodge is only Rank 1 still.

[SvZurich]

Re: Abilities Discussion

 

Try Unbreakable, Steve. It's a damage ignore that could represent your willpower defying threats, while Resurgence could represent your ability to come back when down but not out.

 

Remember, Regen scales with Recovery, not Presence.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Abilities Discussion

 

Got to lvl 18 last night with John Wrath and was able to finally slot the U-SHL Shelly (McIntyre?) Blaster Pistol power replacement.

 

Wow, big difference in damage.

 

I'm mowing thru things now; I was able to complete a lvl 17 "Fight Club" mission instance which suggests (3) by myself, and I only went down once when I pulled an entire room on accident, and once when I got chain lashed into a room with 2 3-bar villains (the named villain Zinetti or whatever and some nameless thunderbird). It wasn't a cake walk, but I wasn't wasting any time either; just plowed thru.

[ajackson]

Re: Abilities Discussion

 

For a defensive characters, there's four parts: passive defense, block, active defense, and healing. I don't know that much about some of those things, but I know enough about the general mechanics to make comments that aren't totally uninformed.

 

Your passive defense, as of the current build, should be one of regeneration, invulnerability, or lightning reflexes. Overall regeneration is probably the best single defensive power, but is weak vs high rates of incoming damage and has poor synergy with healing powers.

 

There are several good blocking powers in the game; currently, force shield with force sheath is probably the most popular, though ebon void with voracious darkness is tougher against a sustained pounding and ice shield debuffs your opponents. TK shield pre-fix was the best block in the game, but is being fixed as of the next patch and has probably become inferior to force shield.

 

I have little experience with active defenses; I'm not a fan of short-term buffs of whatever type, though I can imagine them being useful. It sounds like masterful dodge is quite good.

 

In terms of healing, a support healer can afford a maintained heal, but a character who's designed to be defensive would rather not -- any time you spend healing is time you aren't spending blocking or attacking. Currently, Mindful Reinforcement has a bug that makes it the best heal; without that bug I'm not sure where it rates (depends on what level the protective field is layered at). Other than that, Resurgence is a very strong click heal but has a 90 second cooldown, Bountiful Chi Resurgence is a fairly weak heal-over-time that you can trivially maintain forever (5 energy and 0.67 seconds every 12 seconds), but comes with a built-in 20% damage reduction that you need an advantage to eliminate, bionic shielding is a somewhat mediocre heal which requires you to take damage (at least five times) to fully activate and has a 60 second cooldown. Beyond that, you have the charged or maintained heals. Empathic Healing is essentially unusable for a defensive character (it breaks off if you take damage), psionic healing and arcane vitality are both solid heals with no cooldown, but are somewhat slow and prone to being disrupted.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: Abilities Discussion

 

Masterful Dodge is good while it lasts, but it doesn't last long enough. I had it on Hype and it got me thru a couple of tough boss fights, but I wouldn't bet the farm on it. I respec'd out of it and haven't regretted it yet.