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Tuscarora

Disappointment

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I have been playing Champions since the 80s, I still run a campaign once a month. I wanted to voice my disappointment in Cryptic's supposed rendition of the Champions RPG. I think they failed miserably, the graphics look like poor Silver Age comics and the game system is not truly customizable (which is where Champions the RPG succeeded. HERO had a great product for a great opportunity in the MMO world. And Cryptic destroyed its potential.

 

I am starting to believe Cryptic needed to slap a title on top of their game when Marvel quit them and came to HERO to save the day.

 

I don't know if the developers did not understand the game system or just did not care, but I am truly disappointed.

 

I am sorry, I was so upset with it I wanted to voice my opinion here. Oh well, I still have the RPG and my friends.

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Guest Celt

Re: Disappointment

 

I have been playing Champions since the 80s, I still run a campaign once a month. I wanted to voice my disappointment in Cryptic's supposed rendition of the Champions RPG. I think they failed miserably, the graphics look like poor Silver Age comics and the game system is not truly customizable (which is where Champions the RPG succeeded. HERO had a great product for a great opportunity in the MMO world. And Cryptic destroyed its potential.

 

I am starting to believe Cryptic needed to slap a title on top of their game when Marvel quit them and came to HERO to save the day.

 

I don't know if the developers did not understand the game system or just did not care, but I am truly disappointed.

 

I am sorry, I was so upset with it I wanted to voice my opinion here. Oh well, I still have the RPG and my friends.

 

Cryptic developed the MMOG from the Champions Universe background material. Their intent has never been to replicate the breadth of possibilities available in the rpg Champions, and that's been made clear from the beginning. I'm sorry it didn't meet your expectations but this was not a namedrop by Cryptic to lure us in.

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Cryptic developed the MMOG from the Champions Universe background material. Their intent has never been to replicate the breadth of possibilities available in the rpg Champions' date=' and that's been made clear from the beginning. I'm sorry it didn't meet your expectations but this was not a namedrop by Cryptic to lure us in.[/quote']

 

Well, to be fair, you can't really say that. It's likely that Cryptic chose to obtain the CU IP for the name recognition it would have with superhero RPG fans.

 

Otherwise, why bother? Creating a superhero universe isn't that hard; they'd already done it once.

 

I do agree, though, that Cryptic never made any promise to have the game mechanics resemble Champions in any way.

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That's okay DCUO is going to be free to play anyways. So I will just wait for it.

 

Where did you read this? I've heard stated by several people recently but have seen no evidence that they have announced a pricing scheme yet. And since they're not even in beta I'd be surprised if they had.

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Re: Disappointment

 

Probably this article:

Gamescom 2009: DC Universe Online Impressions[updates]

 

In the original article they said "Wes confirmed that not only will there be no subscription fee for DC Universe Online" but they have since updated that as below:

 

In his response we were given a very strong impression that they are leaning towards the expansion-pack business model, as opposed to the traditional subscription fee although such matters hadn’t been solidified at that point over at Sony Online Entertainment.

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Re: Disappointment

 

Greetings

 

For me, CO still has way more potential to allow someone to play as the superhero of their creation then DCUO will. If I want to play as Batman, why not play a console game? It just seems weird to me... the whole concept.

 

I played the Champions pen & paper way back, and it was great. But then I don't see how and MMO could come close to any Tabletop adventure. It's like comparing a book to a movie. They are totally different.

 

I think, as a RPGMMO, CO is great and fun.

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I agree the open creation system of Champions and the complexity require a GM to balance each character. While its my favortie design system it requires some imagination to get the most from it which is also one of the hardest things for a lot of new players.

 

Many lack the creativity or imagination.

 

 

As far as CO game play I was expecting it to be a little more similar. But understand why a lot of things could not be done. I would have liked to have some real defenses on a ranged character. Or Play a Brick but I find the energy building concept great for simulating ranged Energy projectors to a "T". But not Bricks who need to get to melee to build up energy. In the PnP game I do not have to spam the Block manuever to feel like I have powerful defenses.

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Well, AFAIK, it was never billed as being a HERO system MMO, just one that used the Champions setting. Given the number of changes required to support real-time combat and DM-less gameplay, even the closest conversion would be substantially different from the TTRPG. That said, I personally would be interested in an MMO that actually used the HERO rules to the extent possible, but I'm not sure how wide an appeal it would have to non-PnP gamers.

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Well' date=' AFAIK, it was never billed as being a HERO system MMO, just one that used the Champions setting. Given the number of changes required to support real-time combat and DM-less gameplay, even the closest conversion would be substantially different from the TTRPG. That said, I personally [i']would[/i] be interested in an MMO that actually used the HERO rules to the extent possible, but I'm not sure how wide an appeal it would have to non-PnP gamers.

 

Hell, I would have settled for it being fun. No joy there.

 

Tasha

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Re: Disappointment

 

It's likely that Cryptic chose to obtain the CU IP for the name recognition it would have with superhero RPG fans.

 

Otherwise, why bother?

 

 

My personal guess is that they had just created a world, and had been working with another superhero world, and they wanted to avoid a copyright infringement suit. This seems pretty likely if they even created one character that was vaguely similar to anyone in either CoH or the Marvel universe.

 

 

In the original article they said "Wes confirmed that not only will there be no subscription fee for DC Universe Online" but they have since updated that as below:

 

 

Very interestink. Still, I never cared for Guild Wars, and I don't see how DCUO could be much better. It's just a matter of financials. Without a steady income, it's hard to justify high quality expansions, and expansions always seem to bring in less money than a monthly fee.

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Very interestink. Still, I never cared for Guild Wars, and I don't see how DCUO could be much better. It's just a matter of financials. Without a steady income, it's hard to justify high quality expansions, and expansions always seem to bring in less money than a monthly fee.

 

I don't think that SOE is capable of making a game that is fun. I think that they are all about the subscription fees/box sales and really couldn't give a darn about anything else. I mean honestly, when was the last time that SOE came out with something that wasn't broken at launch and boring as watching paint peel.

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Indeed' date=' putting out an expansion that sells only for what 3 months subscription would pull in, and not everyone will buy it. Subs are where the money is at.[/quote']

 

Actually SOE's model is for selling Station Passes to all of their games. By having the more expensive Station Pass on the account, then they can show their stockholders those people as being players of all SOE's games. It's a scam to prop up their stockvalue and nothing more.

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I used to have a Station pass, right up until it became more expensive that what I was willing to pay to play EQ1 and EQ2. Been nearly Sony free ever since (Spider-Man films being the exception).

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I used to have a Station pass' date=' right up until it became more expensive that what I was willing to pay to play EQ1 and EQ2. Been nearly Sony free ever since (Spider-Man films being the exception).[/quote']

 

?? Isn't Station Pass about a penny more than subscribing to two games for a month? If SWG wasn't such ever-declining drek, I'd take that deal.

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?? Isn't Station Pass about a penny more than subscribing to two games for a month? If SWG wasn't such ever-declining drek' date=' I'd take that deal.[/quote']

 

as long as you like at least 2 of there games it is a good deal,

a month or so a year i will turn mine on and play a few of there games "burning seas, vangaurd, eq2 for the heck of it

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I quit when it hit $25 and was about to go up again for Vanguard. At the time I owned EQ1, EQ2, and SWG. I wasn't willing to pay $25+ as that was around what I paid for year long subs for both EQs. SWG was utter crap in my experience with controls that didn't match the manual for the spacecraft in the tutorial setting. Decided my money would be better spent elsewhere and left.

 

I still get tempted to try EQ1 and EQ2 now and again, but they fail to keep my attention for long.

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Re: Disappointment

 

Wow...

 

"Champions Online is one of Amazon's "Deals of the Day" today! For one day only, Champions is being sold on Amazon for $20 off the MSRP price of $49.99. If you've been on the fence about picking up your copy, now's definitely a good time to grab it, so why are you still reading this? Go!"

 

some will read, good deal. I read, this game is in its death throes... better dump the stocked boxes before we get stuck with them.

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"Champions Online is one of Amazon's "Deals of the Day" today! For one day only, Champions is being sold on Amazon for $20 off the MSRP price of $49.99. If you've been on the fence about picking up your copy, now's definitely a good time to grab it, so why are you still reading this? Go!"

 

some will read good deal, I read... this game is in its death throes, dump the stock before we get stuck with it.

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Re: Disappointment

 

"Champions Online is one of Amazon's "Deals of the Day" today! For one day only, Champions is being sold on Amazon for $20 off the MSRP price of $49.99. If you've been on the fence about picking up your copy, now's definitely a good time to grab it, so why are you still reading this? Go!"

 

some will read good deal, I read... this game is in its death throes, dump the stock before we get stuck with it.

 

I think you are reading way too much into Amazon having a sale...

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Guest Celt

Re: Disappointment

 

"Champions Online is one of Amazon's "Deals of the Day" today! For one day only, Champions is being sold on Amazon for $20 off the MSRP price of $49.99. If you've been on the fence about picking up your copy, now's definitely a good time to grab it, so why are you still reading this? Go!"

 

some will read good deal, I read... this game is in its death throes, dump the stock before we get stuck with it.

 

Daeke already posted about this here

Amazon's Deal of the Days are 24-hour sales. This is not a price drop' date=' it is a one-day promotion. If you use Steam, you're probably very familiar with the "limited-time sales" strategy that retailers have.[/quote']

 

Really, doom crying already? I'd say it's more likely a maneuver to undercut sales of Aion which launched the same day I think.

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Re: Disappointment

 

Daeke already posted about this here

 

 

Really, doom crying already? I'd say it's more likely a maneuver to undercut sales of Aion which launched the same day I think.

 

Eh, people who want to find problems can always find some reason to justify it.

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Re: Disappointment

 

Going back to the original poster, I'm sorta iffy about the game. I have been playing mass multiplayers since 2000. I have played Ultima Online, Everquest (one month only), Star Wars Galaxies, Everquest 2, City of Heroes, World of Warcraft, and Champions Online. I have to say that while I am not disappointed in Champions Online (didn't really have expectations), it just doesn't "sing." I know when I started playing World of Warcraft and City of Heroes, I started and just didn't stop. I played Ultima Online relentlessly. Of course, I have no spouse and kids so I have that luxury.

 

I started playing Champions Online in the late beta stages. I just got bored rather quickly. In all honesty, I'm not really sure if it is just tired of gaming in general or if it is Champions Online itself. I have only gotten to level 20. I just get bored after about half an hour. The game just doesn't seem to have the intangible quality that says "play me versus any of those other games." It is a fine game though I am not a fan of the graphics (prefer City of Heroes graphics). My best friend loves it to death. He calls me almost every night at work yapping about it. However, it just doesn't pull me in the way other games have.

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Re: Disappointment

 

It's been a mixed bag for me. I appreciate the depth of the character designer, which has seldom failed to allow me to get really close to the concept I was going for, but I am utterly dismayed at their take on powers, power-sets, build, balance, and their incessant mantra that "things that work good in pen and paper games seldom translate to MMOs."

 

My major instance of this is that they simply refuse to consider the idea of character disadvantages. It's really odd too considering that PCs are ideally suited for the number-crunching that makes disadvantages a handful for the GM.

Why shouldn't you allow your ice-based character to be weaker (if even by only a measure) to fire? Why shouldn't you be able to take a DNPC (and then, much like the minion missions, have to save them!)? This would surely provide a stop-gap in what is currently very limited content...

 

The pen-and-paper game drew me to the MMO, and suckered me into a lifetime subscription under the promise of recreating a universe and game system I have enjoyed since it's inception. Instead, I feel in many ways that CO is merely another MMO ruleset draped over the Champions skin.

 

I don't regret my investment for the sake of the Champions community, but I certainly regret the impression that the players of the MMO are taking away about what Champions is.

 

I see Champions RPG as the first gaming system that truly encouraged character development and role-play through allowing heroes to be people too. You get to deal with the self-same limitations that add flavor and depth to a character concept.

 

Cryptic has forsaken the roots of the RPG in exchange for an MMO which is prone to min-maxing, pvp vs pve disputes, and a host of other issues that would be remedied if the idea of character concept would have been allowed to take the forefront.

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