Do you play CO as an MMO?

[freshrod]

Re: Do you play CO as an MMO?

 

I absolutely play CO as an MMO. The style of MMO play I prefer is solo. Fortunately at least so far I am not having any problems playing the game with my preferred style. But then again my highest level character is 21st, so there is a lot of the game I haven't seen yet.

 

As to PvP, as long as I don't have to participate in it in any way, shape or form I don't really care about it.

That's great that you are having fun. Unfortunately once you have reached level 40 there doesn't seem to be much more left to do. You might make a few other characters to level, but at some point it will get old.

 

That's what I'm concerned about. If most of the players have the same experience then many of them will quit playing, and that isn't good for the game long term. I hope that CO makes the game more varied and fleshed out for PvP and Teamplay.

[ajackson]

Re: Do you play CO as an MMO?

 

That's great that you are having fun. Unfortunately once you have reached level 40 there doesn't seem to be much more left to do. You might make a few other characters to level' date=' but at some point it will get old.[/quote']

And this differs from other MMOs how, exactly?

[archermoo]

Re: Do you play CO as an MMO?

 

That's great that you are having fun. Unfortunately once you have reached level 40 there doesn't seem to be much more left to do. You might make a few other characters to level, but at some point it will get old.

 

That's what I'm concerned about. If most of the players have the same experience then many of them will quit playing, and that isn't good for the game long term. I hope that CO makes the game more varied and fleshed out for PvP and Teamplay.

 

I have no interest in either PvP or Team play, so my only concern with them is my hope that Cryptic doesn't spend too much time coming up with content for them and instead works on content for those of us who like to solo.

 

Of note, there is nothing inherent about reaching max level that then suddenly requires that all challenges must be either team or PvP. Granted that is unfortunately the route most MMOs have taken. But I'll be pretty happy if Cryptic decides against it.

[SvZurich]

Re: Do you play CO as an MMO?

 

As of 23, I can still solo almost everything and am having a blast. Took a break from leveling to grind snake bucks when I discovered all of the pets I could have, and that they also appear on my alts. Love being in the tutorial with them. I prefer solo play, but I also like to help others. I hate needing help, but don't mind helping.

[Checkmate]

Re: Do you play CO as an MMO?

 

And this differs from other MMOs how' date=' exactly?[/quote']

I know in Vanguard I've leveled 6 character to 30ish and none of them have taken the same quest path to level 20. I've done some of the same quests for a particular item, or sometimes I've forgotten I've done a quest until I'm well into it, but other than that they've rarely done the same quest. Everquest I and 2 have many different starting locations which have different quest lines so replay doesn't get old.

 

As far as Rayoman and I both being happy, I'm afraid that our play styles are mutually exclusive. You see I want everyone to need other people. I want an MMO where you can't advance without help. I don't want it to be an option.

[firesnakearies]

Re: Do you play CO as an MMO?

 

You see I want everyone to need other people. I want an MMO where you can't advance without help. I don't want it to be an option.

 

 

This is the opposite of what I want from a game.

[SvZurich]

Re: Do you play CO as an MMO?

 

This is the opposite of what I want from a game.

 

I agree with FireSnakeAries, that is the point where I drop games. If I can't do my own thing most of the time, the chat and helping others loses meaning and I will go do something else. I play when the servers are low pop due to the hour, if I need help for everything, I will never advance, and if I will never advance, I have no reason to pay or play.

[Checkmate]

Re: Do you play CO as an MMO?

 

This is the opposite of what I want from a game.

It is obviously the opposite of what most people want from a game. The closest I've come to what I want is Vanguard where you can solo but if you want the best items you have to have other people, and it probably won't be around much longer.

[GestaltBennie]

Re: Do you play CO as an MMO?

 

I had some experiences with WoW that color my opinion on this issue somewhat.

 

I tarted playing WoW somewhere between six months and a year into the game. I always tended to be a lone wolf who enjoyed soloing; my few experiences with guilds and instances tended to be less than pleasant (almost as bad as my first PvP experiences). About two years ago, I took the plunge and joined a guild again with my secondary PC (male, Alliance warrior). It was a medium-sized RP guild of about 100 members, most of them mature gamers who'd been with WoW since the early days. I liked to farm and craft and I knew how to play the AH -- in short, I was pretty good at making money and always had a lot of it. As I was promoted in guild, I made it a policy to pay for people's first ground mount and first sky mount. In part, because my PC came from a hospitality and gift-giving based barbarian culture, and in part, because I'm a Christian in RL who thinks of it as his duty to extend grace to others, particularly those who are my friends or who choose to belong to my community. You don't ask people to *earn* grace.

 

I also began helping people out in instances, even though I didn't like them much, especially when repeating them. I'm a funny chap who looks at things through an RP lens, and repeating the same instance over and over again tends to wreck supension of disbelief and the integrity of the story ("wow, the Scarlet Monastery replaced its losses fast!")

 

Quickly, my two worldviews came to painfully clash with each other, as I began helping people (friends of guildies) who didn't understand why repeating instances would be a problem -- after all, the game's set up to *reward* repeat runs by giving them the choicest loot -- and who came to *expect* me to repeat run them every moment they were online. They would log on, immediately IM me, and ask me to run them. When I told them that I was busy and they'd have to wait, they'd regale me with sob stories about how their time was limited and they couldn't wait. Then I would run them through Uldaman or Zul Farrak, and as soon as they finished, they'd immediately demand another run. So much for having limited time.

 

Eventually, I faced a choice between being someone's instance monkey, and denying my principles. However I'm human, and I decided I'd rather help those who appreciated it than someone who was clearly playing me for a chump.

 

After Lich King came out, my guild fell apart --the guild didn't have a good plan to handle the expansion and keep players who wanted to level on the same RP page. I joined a friend in a new guild, and I extended the same offer of help to my new guildmates. When we decided on Imperial Plate as our RP armor, I began crafting Imperial Plate free of charge for guildies.

 

This turned out to be a huge mistake. The new guild was made up of younger players. Whereas the old guild was made up of players who'd worked hard (pre-patch 2.3) to earn their levels, knew how to farm, and appreciated what it took to make a suit of Imperial, the new guildies had been mostly power-leveled. They were playing death knights, and instead of seeing imperial plate as RP armor, it was a suit to gear up fast. One guildie began repeatedly whining on the guild channel for cash within 30 sexonds of joining. When people offered ips on using his profession skills to effectively farm and craft, he insisted he never used those skills and refused to learn them.

 

I ended up making dozens of suits at 300-500 gold per suit, many for fledgling guildies who'd take the armor and leave the guild the next day, quickly spreading the word to friends about free gear. They had a sense of ingratitude and entitlement that saddened me. Eventually, I insisted on a provision -- I'd pay 3/4 of the cost of the armor, and they'd only pay 1/4. Oddly enough, when they did the math, no one took me up on the offer. They were also terrible RPers who played narcissistic cliches and godmoded like crazy (when they RPed at all) but that's another story.

 

As a result, I'm soured on the idea of requiring teaming for advancement. If I believed it encouraged a sense of community and togetherness, I might go for it. Cooperative play, when it works well, is really neat. And I really do like helping people. However, I strongly suspect, based on my experiences, that such a game would end up mostly rewarding the greediest and most manipulative sorts of gamers. Style issues aside -- and I grew up playing single-player RPGs and freely admit that's where my comfort zone lies, with the *freedom* to do my own thing on my schedule and at my own pace -- that's not a game I particularly like to play.

[SvZurich]

Re: Do you play CO as an MMO?

 

You sound like an awesome guildy Scott, so long as people also respect that. I too got burned out. Didn't mind running an instance to help friends, but never could get groups when I needed them. Led to me dropping group quests, missing some lore, and denying requests to run the same dungeons for the 8th or more time. If I run through a dungeon and save the world, why oh why is it imperaled by the same threat a day later? People never learn in these worlds. Suspension of disbelief was shot.

 

I prefer single player games. If there is an option to chat with friends and group, nice, but don't force it. Titanquest did good on that. Fallout 1 and 2 were perfect. Almost anything Bioware/Black Isle is perfect.

 

Force me to group, lose my money.

[Checkmate]

Re: Do you play CO as an MMO?

 

I wouldn't use WoW as a standard of comparison. There are a lot of things about that game that would be different from a game that forced you to need others (and there is more to needing others than grouping. When Star Wars Galaxies first came out, you needed entertainers to take away Fatigue, you needed Doctors to heal wounds, crafters for your gear, etc.) The community is completely different.

 

Things you have to realize is that WoW has pretty much proved the majority of people want to speed level to end game content (I have 2 friends who are in the Navy make it to level 80 in less than 6 weeks.) so when you have a game that forces you to need other people, the community is much smaller. How does this help you ask? It's a lot easier to weed out the jack holes. When someone abuses a guild, word gets around much faster. The impact of getting labled a jerk hole is a lot more serious when you NEED other people too.

 

The co-dependent type of games also, typically, attract a more mature gamer (sort of like HERO gamers tend to be more mature than a less complicated game).

 

The downside is that the community does tend to be more elitist, and it also means that there is no jumpping in the game for 15-20 and accomplishing anything worthwhile.

 

I don't know, I just like the feel of NEEDING someone else on the server.

[SvZurich]

Re: Do you play CO as an MMO?

 

Checkmate, in that case, do look into Eve Online. Most items in the economy are made by players. Player Corporations mine, refine, manufacture Tech 2 and Tech 3 items, and can control space. Due to ruthless PVP, cooperation is a must.

 

And even there, I soloed. Mission running in high security space in my hardened Dominix battleship rocked.

[freshrod]

Re: Do you play CO as an MMO?

 

And this differs from other MMOs how' date=' exactly?[/quote']

 

Well, in Guild Wars, to mention one (if I remember right) the level cap is 20, which you can reach in a day or two, and then the game really starts. Everything is multiple builds and unlocking new powers to tackle new challenges.

 

Not to mention the PvP.

 

I'm not saying CO should go that route, but it's one of many examples they could use for ideas. All I'm really saying is that I hope Cryptic isn't looking at CO in it's current state as finished (given everything I've read it doesn't seem to be), but more like a good platform to start from.

 

I see a lot of untapped potential, especially in the SuperGroup and PvP area, and was wondering what other people thought about what could add some irresistable charm and fun to an already great game.

[archermoo]

Re: Do you play CO as an MMO?

 

As far as Rayoman and I both being happy, I'm afraid that our play styles are mutually exclusive. You see I want everyone to need other people. I want an MMO where you can't advance without help. I don't want it to be an option.

 

Please don't take offense, but I hope you are never happy with CO.

 

I have no problems with there being things that people can group for if they want to. But being a lifetime subscriber I would feel betrayed if they changed the game so drastically as to require people to group to be able to play.

 

I've never really understood why some people cannot abide others having fun doing things that they wouldn't have fun doing. I can understand wanting a game that allows you to group up if you want. I can't understand wanting a game to make sure that everyone else has to as well.

[Steve]

Re: Do you play CO as an MMO?

 

I tend to view my playtime in CO as what it would be like to star in my own comic book, so I'm content to solo with the occasional team-up. I'm happy to help other people in MMO games, but because I have limited playtime available due to wife/child responsibilities, I don't think it's a good idea to get involved in the whole guild thing. I just can't devote 20+ hours a week to a game, any game. My main is in the Hero Games SG, but that is probably the only SG I'll join. It's going to take me a long time to level up, and my main is currently at 12. That's part of the reason I bought a lifetime membership. It was a good value, and I'm going to be at it for a while.

[Jagged]

Re: Do you play CO as an MMO?

 

I can't understand wanting a game to make sure that everyone else has to as well.

 

Ditto.

 

It doesn't seem to fit with the genre either. After all in the comics even the team characters do very well on their own. Super heroes are, by and large, all-rounders. Dare I say "tank-mages" *sniggers*

 

New MMOs need to dynamically tailor the content they throw at a team based upon the make up of the team. You know, much like a human referee would

 

 

[edit] Which kind of reminds me that when I first saw there was a "Champions MMO" thread in the Genres section I instantly thought "MMO is not a genre"

[freshrod]

Re: Do you play CO as an MMO?

 

Ditto.

 

It doesn't seem to fit with the genre either. After all in the comics even the team characters do very well on their own. Super heroes are, by and large, all-rounders. Dare I say "tank-mages" *sniggers*

 

While I agree that most heroes do well on their own (or else would they really be "heroes"?) , BUT you will note that they can fight bigger and badder threats when they do team-up. I can think of a lot of comic book teams (JLA, Avengers, Defenders, Teen Titans, X-Men, etc, etc...) that have taken on all kinds of massive monsters, inter-galactic terrors, villian teams, demons, aliens, giant robots, mad gods.... there is no end.

 

My opinion is that, while I don't think the solo rpg side of the game needs to be changed much and will always be where most CO players spend most of their time, there is a whole lot of potential for Super Groups and on the fly Team-Ups. I think they already have some good ideas with the mini-instances (is that what you call them? the little three headed icons on the map?), I just hope they push to inovate and try new things.

 

I would hate people like checkmate to quite playing because there isn't enough there to interest them. The more the merrier in my opinion.

[archermoo]

Re: Do you play CO as an MMO?

 

I would hate people like checkmate to quite playing because there isn't enough there to interest them. The more the merrier in my opinion.

 

Except that checkmate is looking for a game that forces everyone to play the way that he likes to play. I fervently hope that CO never becomes that game.

[freshrod]

Re: Do you play CO as an MMO?

 

Agreed.

 

Hey, what do you think about these ideas? They already have the whole "Side-Kick" thing. Wouldn't it be cool if there were special powers that you could purchase that would ony work with a sidekick? My be you can throw them at someone, share a healing patch, distract if they are getting beat down, maybe you guys can think of better. I was trying to think of some ways different powers could work in synergy together. Maybe an added boost, or really cool effect or graphic.

 

Just thinking out loud.

[Jagged]

Re: Do you play CO as an MMO?

 

While I agree that most heroes do well on their own (or else would they really be "heroes"?) ' date=' BUT you will note that they can fight bigger and badder threats when they do team-up. I can think of a lot of comic book teams (JLA, Avengers, Defenders, Teen Titans, X-Men, etc, etc...) that have taken on all kinds of massive monsters, inter-galactic terrors, villian teams, demons, aliens, giant robots, mad gods.... there is no end. [/quote']

 

Some team-oriented content is good. CoH had its Task Forces and Trials for instance. But the mission that a hero/heroine picks up should not IMO force a player to have to team.

[firesnakearies]

Re: Do you play CO as an MMO?

 

I like grouping, I like playing with other people. I really do. But I hate feeling forced into it in order to progress. I think that the vast majority of content should be at least technically possible to solo, with additional benefits for grouping.

 

I never want to have to group with random people who, perhaps, I don't like, or whose playstyle is quite different from mine, or who might detract from my enjoyment of the content. I don't like feeling like I'm grouping up because it's "necessary".

 

I want to group with other players for one of three reasons:

 

 

1.) I have an in-character motivation.

 

I love roleplay, and I enjoy MMOs the most when my character is actually working with another character, for reasons that fit the character himself.

 

 

2.) I like the other player(s).

 

I love playing the game with one or more other players whose personality and playstyle agree with me. Playing with people I actually like is much more fun than playing with random folks who irritate me.

 

 

3.) I'm choosing to help someone else out.

 

I am happy to group up with people to assist them, if they need it or just want it. I like helping people. This especially applies to members of my guild, friends of friends, and such.

 

 

Reason 4, "Because I have to" is not a reason which I prefer to be included in my gameplay.

[Checkmate]

Re: Do you play CO as an MMO?

 

Please don't take offense, but I hope you are never happy with CO.

 

I have no problems with there being things that people can group for if they want to. But being a lifetime subscriber I would feel betrayed if they changed the game so drastically as to require people to group to be able to play.

 

I've never really understood why some people cannot abide others having fun doing things that they wouldn't have fun doing. I can understand wanting a game that allows you to group up if you want. I can't understand wanting a game to make sure that everyone else has to as well.

Again you're limiting the definition of "needing others" to mean that you must group up. I gave other examples of "needing others" that have nothing to do with grouping (healing battle fatigue, or wounds PRIOR to going out adventuring, needing equipment from other players).

 

The reason I want it forced on others, is depending on other people is the harder road, it's frustrating at times and takes much more time. If there was an easy road and a hard road, not many would choose the harder of the two. How would it be fair to have one group toil through, while another gets the same thing taking an easier path?

[Zed-F]

Re: Do you play CO as an MMO?

 

Not everyone plays the game for the same reasons. Demanding that others play the game your way is pure selfishness. Sorry, but it's the truth.

[Jagged]

Re: Do you play CO as an MMO?

 

Not everyone plays the game for the same reasons. Demanding that others play the game your way is pure selfishness. Sorry' date=' but it's the truth.[/quote']

 

Its also a path Cryptic have tried to take before. I seriously doubt they will try again.

[freshrod]

Re: Do you play CO as an MMO?

 

Hey, what do you think about these ideas? They already have the whole "Side-Kick" thing. Wouldn't it be cool if there were special powers that you could purchase that would ony work with a sidekick? My be you can throw them at someone, share a healing patch, distract if they are getting beat down, maybe you guys can think of better. I was trying to think of some ways different powers could work in synergy together. Maybe an added boost, or really cool effect or graphic.

 

Just thinking out loud.

 

Not to be rude... but no one commented on my ideas. I was just trying to think of things that could be added. Perhaps if we could come up with several inovative ideas we could forward them to Cryptic.