Who is sticking to 4th or 5th Ed HERO

[Matt Holck]

Re: Who is sticking to 4th or 5th Ed HERO

 

Now if you can find an active Tesseract thingie, that would earn more cool points then the cubed.

 

~Rex

 

I'll defer to Mad Magazine

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2008/03/28/arts/20080330_FOLD_IN_FEATURE.html

 

That's because the majority of us that are continuing in the thread are actually capable of understanding inflection for the most part, up to and including sarcasm and humor, and more. For the most part though, we seem to be able to actually debate a topic, without having to resort to knives to the nads, or wrapping the world in bubble wrap and dandelion fluff.....

 

As for fight.....Heh, I can do that to. It's more fun though to debate. You don't have to be smart to fight, just overly aggressive or overly sensitive.

 

OH......Finally got my hands on the HSMA....Nice work. One of the things I've really liked about 6e so far is that the refined new material, is more or less collected in single volumes as opposed to multiple ones. More Bang for your buck, more ease of use and open formatting explanations for newer folks, smoother and easier to zip through for the experienced folks.

 

~Rex

 

look at the colors man

[Chris Goodwin]

Re: Who is sticking to 4th or 5th Ed HERO

 

They (6e folks) seem to be along the line of the "Try the Brussel Sprouts' date=' you'll Like them!",[/quote']

 

Once again, it's not "Try the Brussel Sprouts, you'll Like them!". It's "Try the Brussel Sprouts. Whether you like them or not, you'll be able to talk about them with an informed perspective."

[Beast]

Re: Who is sticking to 4th or 5th Ed HERO

 

you call this a good thing??????

having to repurchase a book that has very little changed in it(iirc Steve said about 10%)

this is a 35$ book

I would be happy if Steve put out an almanac that covered all these changes for those of us that want to keep up ,but cannot keep up with repurchasing every book

and while a new version is a good thing for all those who are new to 6th ed and do not have the the old 5th ed stuff

 

The collection of both optional rules and official rules was why I purchased both the 5e Hero System Combat Handbook and the 5e Character Creation Handbook. Ultimate Skill was also a good place for the collection of optional rules and new official rules. I am also Glad that Ultimate Skill will be basically unchanged for 6e (exception being Skill Levels new cost) so the book is still usable as it sits.

[Beast]

Re: Who is sticking to 4th or 5th Ed HERO

 

looked at HSMA

I see no need to get it since none of the maneuvers changed or the way to build them

there is just not enough new stuff to call getting that book

 

when there is a book done on a subject that was not covered in any of the 5th ed or is a total revamp(at least 50% change in how things are done)

then I'll give it a look

10% change for me means it is just getting repackaged

 

HSMA is solid and well worth the coin. Digital or otherwise. I'll stick with the hardbacks though at least until they come up with a reader that's EXACTLY the size of a book, reading pane wise, and flips pages as fast as what I can read.

 

~Rex

[Beast]

Re: Who is sticking to 4th or 5th Ed HERO

 

and some of us have tried it

and see that there is some good stuff, but it also added stuff that drags it down

IMO 6th ed would have worked fine if an almanac style book had come out along with 6th ed

 

so yes I have tried them

I did not find the taste that much different from the old and maybe not worth the extra price and slick packaging

 

Once again' date=' it's not "Try the Brussel Sprouts, you'll Like them!". It's "Try the Brussel Sprouts. Whether you like them or not, you'll be able to talk about them with an informed perspective."[/quote']

[Greywind]

Re: Who is sticking to 4th or 5th Ed HERO

 

Once again' date=' it's not "Try the Brussel Sprouts, you'll Like them!". It's "Try the Brussel Sprouts. Whether you like them or not, you'll be able to talk about them with an informed perspective."[/quote']

Unless you choke to death on them...

[Guest steamteck]

Re: Who is sticking to 4th or 5th Ed HERO

 

Once again' date=' it's not "Try the Brussel Sprouts, you'll Like them!". It's "Try the Brussel Sprouts. Whether you like them or not, you'll be able to talk about them with an informed perspective."[/quote']

 

Once again it more like ..These brussel sprouts are completely different than any other brussel sprouts in the world do your prior experience is useless.

 

I got 6th and found no surprises. My objections are the same and observations are unchanged. I will use the PD/ED for objects possibly damage negation and may adopt/adapt some aspects of barrier but for the major changes my heart is still in 5th .Many of the things others find less clunky I find counterintuitive and clunky for me. I'm an oddball quite often I know but after decades of gaming I know what I prefer and can assess things pretty well.

 

The best new rules IMO opinion are in the APG. That is one 6th edition series I will get 1st priority as long as they come out and maintain quality. Steve's best rules IMO tend to be the ones he dismisses for mainstream. That's why I love the side bars in 5th with alternate thoughts and the APG.

[Tasha]

Re: Who is sticking to 4th or 5th Ed HERO

 

Once again it more like ..These brussel sprouts are completely different than any other brussel sprouts in the world do your prior experience is useless.

.

 

To contribute to this OLD argument. Most of us 6e people are saying. You liked your brussel sprouts in their 5e form, but you won't even try the slightly larger, slightly darker in color version of the same food you have been eating for years due to the fact that the new version grows on Trees and not on the plants they grew on for years. You say that you know that you will hate the new veggie because other green dark veggies that grow on trees are sour and don't meet with your taste. We say try them, that they are pretty good. They taste a little different from the old Brussel sprouts, but taste almost the same as the old ones, in fact most people wouldn't even know that they were eating the new version.

 

to those who tried it and didn't care for it. I have to say again. Thanks for trying. Though I have to say that in a couple of instances, I don't really think that the person trying 6e really gave it a chance and let their preconceived notions cloud their perspectives. Saying that I DO have to admire the fact that they tried it.

 

I also find it funny people who complain on one hand that the rules changed a little bit and on the other hand won't buy the new rules because they aren't different enough. That's a really tough criteria for updating one's game books. You can't change anything that I like, but if you don't change enough I won't buy it anyways.

[Guest steamteck]

Re: Who is sticking to 4th or 5th Ed HERO

 

 

I also find it funny people who complain on one hand that the rules changed a little bit and on the other hand won't buy the new rules because they aren't different enough. That's a really tough criteria for updating one's game books. You can't change anything that I like, but if you don't change enough I won't buy it anyways.

 

 

I'm not one of those people but when there is something you really like it is a tough criteria to update. that being said I was set to buy when it was announced but the direction turned me away. Personally if they had left things I really really liked alone and just streamlined and cleaned up I would have been good. They could have changed quite a few things I liked just they picked enough that its not worth it for me. A few things I could homerule back in but its just not worth it. I'm happy where I am and don't see enough reason to change.

[Guest steamteck]

Re: Who is sticking to 4th or 5th Ed HERO

 

To contribute to this OLD argument. Most of us 6e people are saying. You liked your brussel sprouts in their 5e form, but you won't even try the slightly larger, slightly darker in color version of the same food you have been eating for years due to the fact that the new version grows on Trees and not on the plants they grew on for years. You say that you know that you will hate the new veggie because other green dark veggies that grow on trees are sour and don't meet with your taste. We say try them, that they are pretty good. They taste a little different from the old Brussel sprouts, but taste almost the same as the old ones, in fact most people wouldn't even know that they were eating the new version.

.

 

 

More like you put blasted red peppers in it and I know they make me sick but we've gone round and round on this one. Some people feel you can figure out things from your experience and others don't.

[Rapier]

Re: Who is sticking to 4th or 5th Ed HERO

 

YOU ARE ALL WRONG, WRONG, WRONG AND I AM RIGHT, RIGHT RIGHT!

 

 

 

SO THERE! And now that my eminently logical and well-reasoned argument has you on the ropes, I shall accept your apology for doubting me.

[Tasha]

Re: Who is sticking to 4th or 5th Ed HERO

 

More like you put blasted red peppers in it and I know they make me sick but we've gone round and round on this one. Some people feel you can figure out things from your experience and others don't.

 

The disconnect is that while I DO have confidence that people can make judgements based on experience. I don't see how any other game system is put together in the same way as Hero, so there's a part of me that doesn't see how the experiences of different game systems have anything to do with Hero System, except in the most general of terms (ie liking Point based vs Random rolled systems). So to me it's an apples and oranges kind of thing.

 

Having said that and really not wanting to rehash the whole argument. If you don't want to try the new system, that's ok. I still hope that someday that those who are holding out will try it as a player.

 

As far as I am concerned you are welcome to play any version of Hero you like. Just don't bash the current edition (it seems rude to try and steer players toward editions that the company that gives us the discussion boards can't make money on anymore). Also, expect that support for that earlier edition will be less than for the current edition.

[casualplayer]

Re: Who is sticking to 4th or 5th Ed HERO

 

Actually if 6th ed had red peppers in it, I would be staying with earlier editions too. Suckers give me wicked gas, and nobody needs to be increasing the amount of gamer gas.

[RexMundi]

Re: Who is sticking to 4th or 5th Ed HERO

 

Wait....wait wait wait....How dare you all say bad things about the Red Pepper, the king and Ultimate of All that is Food! I am Highly Forum Offended now!

 

That aside. If there had been about as much 5th Edition stuff sitting on shelves or available to order, as there was 4th Ed material when 5th came out, the arguement would be highly different methinks. Plus, I keep seeing folks say thing like "If they had left what I liked alone...." But I don't see many examples of what they liked. Often it appears that what they liked, was one of the incredibly chunky thinigs that intimidated a lot of players into running over to Mutants and Masterminds and the like.... *shrug*....

 

So if there was an old thing that you are incensed about that got ripped up and changed or tossed out, feel free to give me an example.

 

~Rex

[FreeDice]

Re: Who is sticking to 4th or 5th Ed HERO

 

I think both sides have valid arguments, especially when looked at from an economics perspective. Rather than food, look at it from a car perspective:

 

Some people go out and buy a car, mostly through a loan. They make their payments every month, and when they pay off their car, they go get another one. It's not really something they own, but a "driving utility" (utility as in electric, gas, water, trash) that they pay for.

 

Other people go out and buy a car. They own it. When it breaks, they fix it. When it dies, they fix it for a lot of money. It's their car, it's an object that they own. They don't want to spend money every month.

 

RPGs are the same way. Some people see the value (especially HEROphiles) in buying one book, and owning all the rules they'll ever need. A new edition, no matter how useful, thwarts that value. Others see RPGing as a hobby, wherein you buy a new book every other month to keep up.

 

The former is a valid methodology, and I respect and support it. The latter (how I operate) is the foundation of a successful role-playing company. I guarantee that we'll see HERO 7th in ~10 years, assuming we're fortunate enough to still have DOJ. That's how these companies work - they have to keep selling products. And new genre books don't help as much as new editions - no Cyber HERO or Galaxy of Intrigue or book about Faerun is going to be anywhere near as successful as a new edition.

 

4th Edition, 5th Edition and FrankenHERO Players - I salute you. Your custom tailoring and house-ruling and rules-waving represents the pinnacle of what the HERO System represents - a toolkit, not just a system. I support your decision, and wish you and your campaigns the best of luck. But the HERO System marches on, as it inexorably must, and those of us who can afford to do so will update with the times.

[RexMundi]

Re: Who is sticking to 4th or 5th Ed HERO

 

Woot! Car analogy, I'm NOT the only one that uses it.

 

~Rex

[FreeDice]

Re: Who is sticking to 4th or 5th Ed HERO

 

Woot! Car analogy, I'm NOT the only one that uses it.

 

~Rex

 

Oh, sorry. Did I miss a post where you say the same thing? My bad.

[Guest steamteck]

Re: Who is sticking to 4th or 5th Ed HERO

 

 

I keep seeing folks say thing like "If they had left what I liked alone...." But I don't see many examples of what they liked. Often it appears that what they liked, was one of the incredibly chunky thinigs that intimidated a lot of players into running over to Mutants and Masterminds and the like.... *shrug*....

~Rex

 

If you don't know or have seen examples from me you haven't been looking. I still submit clunky is very very subjective. I find no figurers and the characteristic comparisons chart clunkier than figures were.

 

if you want my list I can supply I suppose but there seems little point in going over it again to me.

[Guest steamteck]

Re: Who is sticking to 4th or 5th Ed HERO

 

 

Having said that and really not wanting to rehash the whole argument. If you don't want to try the new system, that's ok. I still hope that someday that those who are holding out will try it as a player.

 

As far as I am concerned you are welcome to play any version of Hero you like. Just don't bash the current edition (it seems rude to try and steer players toward editions that the company that gives us the discussion boards can't make money on anymore). Also, expect that support for that earlier edition will be less than for the current edition.

 

Fair enough but don't expect us late adapters so to speak be silent when some one chimes in that NOW they can do this and that and couldn't before when by the rules I read they could all along. Now feel free to tell me it is done better now but the other way just makes me think people never really read things and devalues the credibilty of any future comments.

 

Seriously, honest to God , I really can tell when a new rule or change will be detrimental to our play style especially when the way it worked was part of the reason we chose HERO. very especially when it shifts to the way we left another system to get away from. If I could get this point through to people I respect like yourself . I would happily just leave it forever and leave the fanatics fell superior.

 

 

I don't expect support and am planning to continue to get HERO products, just not the retreads.

[Tasha]

Re: Who is sticking to 4th or 5th Ed HERO

 

Fair enough but don't expect us late adapters so to speak be silent when some one chimes in that NOW they can do this and that and couldn't before when by the rules I read they could all along. Now feel free to tell me it is done better now but the other way just makes me think people never really read things and devalues the credibilty of any future comments.

 

Seriously, honest to God , I really can tell when a new rule or change will be detrimental to our play style especially when the way it worked was part of the reason we chose HERO. very especially when it shifts to the way we left another system to get away from. If I could get this point through to people I respect like yourself . I would happily just leave it forever and leave the fanatics fell superior.

 

I don't expect support and am planning to continue to get HERO products, just not the retreads.

 

Heck, I'll be one of the first to chime in when people misrepresent what is and isn't possible with any version of the rules. I'll also backup what I say with Page numbers and what book it is in. Mostly because I have learned to look stuff up when I say stuff.

[Greywind]

Re: Who is sticking to 4th or 5th Ed HERO

 

What page is stuff on?

 

[Ternaugh]

Re: Who is sticking to 4th or 5th Ed HERO

 

What page is stuff on?

 

 

6e1 2, 8, 30 and 6e2 2, 233, 262, 270.

 

JoeG

[Beast]

Re: Who is sticking to 4th or 5th Ed HERO

 

Sing it Brother

 

I don't expect support and am planning to continue to get HERO products, just not the retreads.

[Vulcan]

Re: Who is sticking to 4th or 5th Ed HERO

 

My god, this argument is still going on. And people on both sides continue to say the exact same things after 50 pages. Tsk, tsk.

 

Not to pick on you, Tasha, but I see you are still coming here picking a fight. Perhaps by now the best thing to do is just let it be? It should be obvious by now that you're not going to change anyones mind. You didn't change mine, for example; what changed my mind was actually reading 6E. And I might have done it sooner had it not been for people pushing 6E at me like it was the greatest thing since sliced bread even though I had seen several changes I didn't like...

[Tasha]

Re: Who is sticking to 4th or 5th Ed HERO

 

My god' date=' this argument is [i']still [/i]going on. And people on both sides continue to say the exact same things after 50 pages. Tsk, tsk.

 

Not to pick on you, Tasha, but I see you are still coming here picking a fight. Perhaps by now the best thing to do is just let it be? It should be obvious by now that you're not going to change anyones mind. You didn't change mine, for example; what changed my mind was actually reading 6E. And I might have done it sooner had it not been for people pushing 6E at me like it was the greatest thing since sliced bread even though I had seen several changes I didn't like...

 

Not at all. Did you see me fighting? I was just trying to explain my viewpoint and NOT pick a fight. I think that Steamtech and myself finally understand one another. I think that he understands that I respect his experiences and knowledge of his gaming group. Also I think that he understands what I tried very hard to get across and obviously failed to communicate. It is very disappointing that you singled me out, I have been very fact oriented in my discusssion of the subject. I TRY very hard to not let my feelings cloud what I write. I guess that doesn't come across to everyone.

 

BTW the last few pages were filled with us talking about 5e vs 6e in a very nice way. Sorry you missed it.

 

Tasha