mwiggins Posted October 18, 2009 Report Share Posted October 18, 2009 you have 4 or more characters all with SPD of 4. can you have most of them hold/stagger thier action so that...? #1 goes on 3,6,9, and 12 #2 goes on 1,4,7, and 10 #3 goes on 2,5,8, and 11 #4 starts over with 3,6,9, and 12 It would keep up an almost constant rate of fire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrosshairCollie Posted October 18, 2009 Report Share Posted October 18, 2009 Re: Staggering SPD- 5th Ed. I'm not certain you can hold your action over Post-12, but other than that, I believe it works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwiggins Posted October 18, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 18, 2009 Re: Staggering SPD- 5th Ed. the book says that you can lower your speed or hold for something specific to happen or a general hold if the GM approves (I'm the GM). I don't recall seeing the post 12 thing , but I could have missed it of course. If all else fails I will use my perogrative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrosshairCollie Posted October 18, 2009 Report Share Posted October 18, 2009 Re: Staggering SPD- 5th Ed. the book says that you can lower your speed or hold for something specific to happen or a general hold if the GM approves (I'm the GM). I don't recall seeing the post 12 thing ' date=' but I could have missed it of course. If all else fails I will use my perogrative. [/quote'] Yeah, I've never seen an issue with holding actions over Post-12. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost-angel Posted October 18, 2009 Report Share Posted October 18, 2009 Re: Staggering SPD- 5th Ed. For simple reasons of flow I have always assumed one could Hold their Phase through Post-12. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Bushido Posted October 18, 2009 Report Share Posted October 18, 2009 Re: Staggering SPD- 5th Ed. Same here: no problems with Holding past Phase 12. Though now I'm curious if there actually is a rule... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trebuchet Posted October 18, 2009 Report Share Posted October 18, 2009 Re: Staggering SPD- 5th Ed. We've Held Actions through Post-12 for decades; so if you can't we've been doing it wrong for years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost-angel Posted October 18, 2009 Report Share Posted October 18, 2009 Re: Staggering SPD- 5th Ed. 5ER p361 - you can Hold past Phase 12. 6E2 p20 - same thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ideasmith Posted October 18, 2009 Report Share Posted October 18, 2009 Re: Staggering SPD- 5th Ed. Per 5ER page 361, Post-Segment 12 Recovery has no effect on Held Actions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Waters Posted October 19, 2009 Report Share Posted October 19, 2009 Re: Staggering SPD- 5th Ed. PS 12 is a notional place-marker: it has no effect at all on combat timings or abilities, like action holding. It takes no time and is only there so that book keeping can take place. In answer to the OP: yes, but only after the first turn. In fact it would look like this: #1: 3,6,9,12 #2: 4,7,10,1 #3: 5,8,11,2 #4 etc Quite why you'd want to I'm not sure. One interesting idea, as a complete aside, would be to get rid of PS 12 completely: you only recover in combat it you use a phase to do so. That concentrates people's minds, let me tell you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Waters Posted October 19, 2009 Report Share Posted October 19, 2009 Re: Staggering SPD- 5th Ed. Actually, as you start on 12, it would be: 12, 3, 6, 9 1, 4, 7, 10 2, 5, 8, 11 etc. OK. Done now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted October 19, 2009 Report Share Posted October 19, 2009 Re: Staggering SPD- 5th Ed. Yes, you can do that if you want. You might need some in-game justification for such precise coordination, or not, depending on how meta the GM is comfortable with players being. If you do need a justification it would be a great use for either or both of the Tactics and Teamwork skills. Some means of communication would also be a good justification, such as commlinks or mindlink. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killer Shrike Posted October 19, 2009 Report Share Posted October 19, 2009 Re: Staggering SPD- 5th Ed. 5ER p361 - you can Hold past Phase 12. 6E2 p20 - same thing. Yep, good page refs. Somewhat related you can also go the other way, pulling a phase forward to Abort with it...I'm not sure if it made it into the rulebook, but: Very Old Question To Steve Segment 12 is nothing more than a bookmarking convention to provide a frame of reference for a unit of time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prestidigitator Posted October 19, 2009 Report Share Posted October 19, 2009 Re: Staggering SPD- 5th Ed. Sure. Why not? Of course, I'd suggest maybe Coordinating attacks for even greater benefit. Piling up your Phases in the same Segment can in many ways have greater benefit than spreading them all out. Another example is that the opponent can't Abort in the same Segment in which he has already acted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted October 20, 2009 Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 Re: Staggering SPD- 5th Ed. Segment 12 is nothing more than a bookmarking convention to provide a frame of reference for a unit of time. Sooooo... can you hold your post-seg 12 recovery until, say, you actually get smacked in the face? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper-Man Posted October 20, 2009 Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 Re: Staggering SPD- 5th Ed. Sooooo... can you hold your post-seg 12 recovery until' date=' say, you actually get smacked in the face? [/quote'] No. It's not an active action taken by a character. The only control a character has over it would be to stop it by purposely holding their breath. From 5er, page 424: POST-SEGMENT 12 RECOVERY After Segment 12 each Turn, all characters (even Stunned ones) get a free Post-Segment 12 Recovery. This Recovery occurs automatically (unless the character is holding his breath [see below] or is deeply unconscious). Characters get a Post-Segment 12 Recovery even if they’re taking damage from a Constant attack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted October 20, 2009 Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 Re: Staggering SPD- 5th Ed. No. It's not an active action taken by a character. The only control a character has over it would be to stop it by purposely holding their breath. Ah, does anything spoil a joke like being taken seriously? Still, following on with the serious note, I think there's some real mileage (especially in heroic games) to scrap the post-seg 12 recovery altogether. That's certainly what I did, last time I ran a Fantasy Hero variant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper-Man Posted October 20, 2009 Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 Re: Staggering SPD- 5th Ed. Ah, does anything spoil a joke like being taken seriously? Still, following on with the serious note, I think there's some real mileage (especially in heroic games) to scrap the post-seg 12 recovery altogether. That's certainly what I did, last time I ran a Fantasy Hero variant. Sorry I missed the joke earlier. In a game that didn't use the post-seg 12 REC I would probably build a character with the following: 12 It's Like Recovery but Different: Healing END & STUN 1d6 (standard effect: 3 points), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Persistent (+1/2), [two powers] simultaneously (+1/2), Decreased Re-use Duration (1 Turn; 5er pg 188: This Advantage allows a character to apply Healing more than once a day.; +1 1/2) (40 Active Points); Extra Time (1 Turn (Post-Segment 12), 5e 186-187; 5er pg 290-291; A Power with this Limitation takes longer than usual to activate and/or use.; -1 1/4), Always On (-1/2), Self Only (-1/2) [Notes: Operates almost exactly like Post Phase 12 REC except that it gives the character 6 END and 3 STUN and works even when they are below -11 STUN.] - END=0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted October 20, 2009 Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 Re: Staggering SPD- 5th Ed. 12 It's Like Recovery but Different: Healing END & STUN 1d6 (standard effect: 3 points)' date=' Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Persistent (+1/2), [two powers'] simultaneously (+1/2), Decreased Re-use Duration (1 Turn; 5er pg 188: This Advantage allows a character to apply Healing more than once a day.; +1 1/2) (40 Active Points); Extra Time (1 Turn (Post-Segment 12), 5e 186-187; 5er pg 290-291; A Power with this Limitation takes longer than usual to activate and/or use.; -1 1/4), Always On (-1/2), Self Only (-1/2) [Notes: Operates almost exactly like Post Phase 12 REC except that it gives the character 6 END and 3 STUN and works even when they are below -11 STUN.] - END=0 That's a wonderful, gorgeous construction! Build me another one that replaces the other purposes of the REC stat, and we're one step nearer my ultimate goal, the supremacy of Effect-Based Facism - no more catch-all characteristics, everything boils down to a single effect. Your honorary membership card is in the post! And remember, the campaign for 7th edition starts now... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naanomi Posted October 20, 2009 Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 Re: Staggering SPD- 5th Ed. in 6e that would be built as 'regeneration' but would still work fine. I had a character with 0 REC before... be careful of 'transformation' powers that you will never heal from! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost-angel Posted October 20, 2009 Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 Re: Staggering SPD- 5th Ed. in 6e that would be built as 'regeneration' but would still work fine. I had a character with 0 REC before... be careful of 'transformation' powers that you will never heal from! No, 6E Regeneration only moves the BODY Recovery up the Time Chart. It has nothing to do with Stun or Endurance. Both of those are still under Healing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prestidigitator Posted October 20, 2009 Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 Re: Staggering SPD- 5th Ed. No, 6E Regeneration only moves the BODY Recovery up the Time Chart. It has nothing to do with Stun or Endurance. Both of those are still under Healing. Which makes this rule rather odd: Persistent: Characters cannot buy this Advantage for Healing; if a character wants a healing power that never stops working' date=' he should buy Regeneration (q.v.).[/quote'] So, should we ignore the bit about not being able to place Persistent on Healing, or should we expand Regeneration in some way to allow it to work on non-Body Characteristics and Powers? I think both, depending on the circumstances, because generally I'd prefer to see a healing-field built with Persistent Healing than with UOO/UAA Regeneration. But YMMV and there's always the cumulativity (what do you think of that word? ) to think about. Heh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwiggins Posted October 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 Re: Staggering SPD- 5th Ed. I've got a Mad Hatter type of villian with a angry mob of mind controlled innocent bystanders. I want to keep up a constant stream of thrown rocks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost-angel Posted October 20, 2009 Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 Re: Staggering SPD- 5th Ed. Which makes this rule rather odd: So, should we ignore the bit about not being able to place Persistent on Healing, or should we expand Regeneration in some way to allow it to work on non-Body Characteristics and Powers? I think both, depending on the circumstances, because generally I'd prefer to see a healing-field built with Persistent Healing than with UOO/UAA Regeneration. But YMMV and there's always the cumulativity (what do you think of that word? ) to think about. Heh. I had to go double check myself... yeah, Regeneration is for BODY, which means there's no logical reason that Healing shouldn't be allowed to have Persistent placed on it. At least in regards to Healing that works with any other Characteristic (or Power). sighs. This is the kind of problem that is encountered when one assumes a Power is used for only one thing. Even if it is the actual most common use for that Power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyper-Man Posted October 20, 2009 Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 Re: Staggering SPD- 5th Ed. I had to go double check myself... yeah, Regeneration is for BODY, which means there's no logical reason that Healing shouldn't be allowed to have Persistent placed on it. At least in regards to Healing that works with any other Characteristic (or Power). sighs. This is the kind of problem that is encountered when one assumes a Power is used for only one thing. Even if it is the actual most common use for that Power. Yeah. This is one of the few instances that 6e appears to be removing viable options that existed in 5er. There also appears to be an explicit requirement for a power to NOT be Instant before Persistent can be applied to it (according to HDv3 using 6e rules at least). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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