HERO SYSTEM MARTIAL ARTS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

[The Main Man]

Re: HERO SYSTEM MARTIAL ARTS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Speaking of "Disco Do," I once made a metalhead who basically had "Mosh Fu."I'll post the maneuvers later.

[The Main Man]

Re: HERO SYSTEM MARTIAL ARTS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

In the tradition of Jackie Chan, what if there was an elaboration on the kinds of improvised weapons one can use as well as which Weapon Familiarity would apply to each one?

[Steve Long]

Re: HERO SYSTEM MARTIAL ARTS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

I'd rather have a coupon for Pecan Pie.

 

I'm sorry, but the PCI (Pie Coupon Initiative) does not allow for substitutions at this time. Thank you for contacting the Pie Coupon Initiative.

[Panpiper]

Re: HERO SYSTEM MARTIAL ARTS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

In fact UMA contains both Hsing-I and Tai Ch'i Chuan' date=' including a mention of the Chen substyle of the latter.[/quote']

Ok. I do want to point out however that technically, Tai Chi Chuan as most people know it is actually a substyle of Chen, not the other way around.

[The Main Man]

Re: HERO SYSTEM MARTIAL ARTS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

I have the feeling that Chi could be explored as an overall concept and be a rather specific section of the martial arts powers

 

I wonder how the Throw element would work in light of the Basic Maneuver's 6e applications (Range and Melee).

 

Another thing to consider: padded wearing, like boxing gloves.

 

I'm picturing Resistant Protection that works for the opponent - it reduces the attacker's strikes for the safety of the opponent.

 

It would be interesting to write up for professional fighting sports in a campaign and it helps explain why professional fights last longer than normal - a boxer punches harder without the gloves after all.

 

Speaking of professional fighting sports, I think that some mention or writeup of fighting rings and cages could do with some elaboration.

[Southern Cross]

Re: HERO SYSTEM MARTIAL ARTS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Here are a few suggestions:

Include Ecky Thump from the Goodies episode Kung Fu Capers as an example of Slapstick Martial Arts.I'd build the main manuever (walloping people's heads with a black pudding) as follows +2 OCV,+2d6 damage and Target Falls.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: HERO SYSTEM MARTIAL ARTS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

I'm sorry' date=' but the PCI (Pie Coupon Initiative) does not allow for substitutions at this time. Thank you for contacting the Pie Coupon Initiative.[/quote']

 

Thinking on it, I have deep seated concerns about Hero adopting a "one flavour"policy in this regard. Hero has always been about building whatever you can imagine and, much though I favour Key Lime of Pecan, I think the options need to be incorporated into the rules. Otherwise, the toolkit is incomplete.

 

I have the feeling that Chi could be explored as an overall concept and be a rather specific section of the martial arts powers

 

Another thing to consider: padded wearing, like boxing gloves.

 

I'm picturing Resistant Protection that works for the opponent - it reduces the attacker's strikes for the safety of the opponent.

 

I like both of these ideas. Perhaps Boxing Gloves might somehow link to removal of penalties for pulling a punch, with the result that the punch is always pullled.

[Psistrike]

Re: HERO SYSTEM MARTIAL ARTS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

I'll think of more to reply with later [been reading a ton on martial arts in roleplaying lately, with the Metahuman Martial Arts book for Mutants and Masterminds 2nd edition.]. Just one thing, it is bartitsu.

[Killer Shrike]

Re: HERO SYSTEM MARTIAL ARTS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

...boxing gloves....

 

I'm picturing Resistant Protection that works for the opponent - it reduces the attacker's strikes for the safety of the opponent.

 

Seems like a simple -1 or -2 DC modifier would do the trick.

 

In fact...that brings up an idea...circumstantial Damage Class modifiers (bonuses and penalties).

 

There could also be a semi-random DC element, with an associated roll or a die face based effect, to represent strange maneuvers that don't always work so well in practice, but when they _do_ work, kung-pow!

 

Currently OCV penalties alone model this (-2 OCV, +4d6), but an alternative could be 1d6 damage per 1 level the to-hit roll is made by with no base STR but also no cap. If you hit by 0 you connect but do no damage at all, if you hit by 2 you do 2d6, if you hit by 10 you do 10d6. Bonus DC's can only match; so if you have +2DC and hit by 1 you do 2d6, hit by 2 you do 4d6, hit by 3 you do 5d6, etc...

[The Main Man]

Re: HERO SYSTEM MARTIAL ARTS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

I like both of these ideas. Perhaps Boxing Gloves might somehow link to removal of penalties for pulling a punch, with the result that the punch is always pulled.

 

That's an interesting approach - perhaps a compound power?

And padded ware also comes in different levels.

 

Mixed Martial Artists typically use less padded gloves than Boxing, whichwould mean less protection (more padding = longer bouts and less padding = shorter bouts - a correlation for sure)

[IndianaJoe3]

Re: HERO SYSTEM MARTIAL ARTS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

One thing I didn't like about UMA was that the maneuver lists for each art didn't give the standardized name for each maneuver. That made creating a martial artist in Hero Designer a bit of a chore, because you had to figure out which maneuvers you needed to buy. There were also maneuvers that were not on the master list. (I'd like to see the maneuver construction rules implemented in HD, but that goes in another forum.)

 

Historical information on medieval China and Japan would make setting campaigns there much easier. (I know other regions also had martial arts, but I suspect most historical MA campaigns will be in one of those two.)

[Ninja-Bear]

Re: HERO SYSTEM MARTIAL ARTS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Actually, I would really be happier than a dog eating....pie if you would design a villian group which used various martial arts. I seem to get in a rut with, oh this asian group uses this martrial art. If he uses ninjitsu then he must be from Japan. Hopefully this makes sense.

[JmOz]

Re: HERO SYSTEM MARTIAL ARTS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

I know this is a longshot, but in the genre section I would like to see a bit on Pirate/Swashbuckling Hero, maybe going as far as including a 2-3 page mini campeign. Espesialy the european intrigue/muskateer type

[BobGreenwade]

Re: HERO SYSTEM MARTIAL ARTS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

It does' date=' on p. 72. You could probably also do what was described with some Limited form of Clinging, though I'd really have to see the stunt in question being performed to make sure I understand it correctly.[/quote']Clinging with appropriate Modifiers (such as Linked to Running, Only Applies During Movement, Cannot Resist Knockback, and so forth) is my own inclination.

 

In case it makes a difference, I noticed that the characters usually use this stunt not only to make themselves more difficult targets in hand-to-hand combat but also to use the ceiling position as a brief vantage for firing their ranged weapons, albeit necessarily on the run.

 

I couldn't find any clips of C2525 on YouTube showing the entire stunt (just a brief shot of its beginning in a Victoria Pratt montage). I'll try to broaden my search this weekend or early next week, unless someone beats me to it.

[The Main Man]

Re: HERO SYSTEM MARTIAL ARTS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Seems like a simple -1 or -2 DC modifier would do the trick.

 

In fact...that brings up an idea...circumstantial Damage Class modifiers (bonuses and penalties).

 

There could also be a semi-random DC element, with an associated roll or a die face based effect, to represent strange maneuvers that don't always work so well in practice, but when they _do_ work, kung-pow!

 

Currently OCV penalties alone model this (-2 OCV, +4d6), but an alternative could be 1d6 damage per 1 level the to-hit roll is made by with no base STR but also no cap. If you hit by 0 you connect but do no damage at all, if you hit by 2 you do 2d6, if you hit by 10 you do 10d6. Bonus DC's can only match; so if you have +2DC and hit by 1 you do 2d6, hit by 2 you do 4d6, hit by 3 you do 5d6, etc...

 

1. Are you suggesting DN for padded gloves?

 

That could work.

 

2. I find your second idea rather intriguing - it sounds like APG (2? ) material in fact.

[The Main Man]

Re: HERO SYSTEM MARTIAL ARTS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

I know this is a longshot' date=' but in the genre section I would like to see a bit on Pirate/Swashbuckling Hero, maybe going as far as including a 2-3 page mini campeign. Espesialy the european intrigue/muskateer type[/quote']

 

I agree.

 

Western martial arts material ought to balance out the Eastern martial arts amterial so as to broaden players' creative horizons.

 

Better yet (YMMV): a Ninjas versus Pirates mini-campaign.

 

Except that I don't recall any mention of there being mini-campaigns for this book.

[ghost-angel]

Re: HERO SYSTEM MARTIAL ARTS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

There isn't a lot I can add that others haven't mentioned..

 

There is one thing I would like to throw some coppers down on:

 

I don't really want 4 Champions suggestions on Characters like those that have appeared in pretty much every Ultimate Book - especially as they're all built on the same points/campaign parameters - and then get a lousy 1 for 3-4 other genres.

 

We only need One Champions example martial artist. Unless you plan on making a Teen Champions, Standard Champions and Galactic Champions example of each one it is wasted space IM(N)HO. More genres instead of more examples of the same genre.

 

And I'm looking forward to my Key Lime Pie.

[casualplayer]

Re: HERO SYSTEM MARTIAL ARTS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

While I don't necessarily agree with everything you've written' date=' I've had some similar thoughts and definitely plan to cover this sort of thing in the book. However, I can guarantee you one thing -- there's not going to be any sort of "buy some, get more for a cheaper rate" system. HERO used to have several rules like that, and they've all been ruthlessly weeded out over the years because they're a big fat PITA. OTOH, I use a ranking system for Maneuvers in my STORMlords campaign and might very well talk about something along those lines, even if just briefly. [/quote']

 

What about something like the Language Chart but for martial arts manuevers?

 

I would like to see some characters illustrating that now that CV and DEX are severed that martial artists don't really have to have legendary DEXs to be forces to be reckoned with. Some white eyebrowed and mustached beggar with a 8 DEX, 4m Running with the assistance of a cane but a 12 OCV!

 

I would like to see a combat synopsis, similar to the old Ogre-Crusader-Starburst one, but with martial artists sparring and shifting levels and attempting a variety of manuevers. I think this would both demonstrate the pacing of a HERO MA fight, the potential and the power. Show that HERO MA is more than just big damage without big STR and really is about grace and timing.

 

I would like to see a ridiculous amount of Storn Cook art, especially triptych pieces where the flow of battle is shown.

[The Main Man]

Re: HERO SYSTEM MARTIAL ARTS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

What about something like the Language Chart but for martial arts manuevers?

Whoah... that's kinda neat of an idea.

 

Or, alternatively, what of there was a modifier a la Jack of All Trades, Linguist, etc?

 

That being said, Steve did say that he plans for nothing of the sort.

 

I would like to see some characters illustrating that now that CV and DEX are severed that martial artists don't really have to have legendary DEXs to be forces to be reckoned with. Some white eyebrowed and mustached beggar with a 8 DEX, 4m Running with the assistance of a cane but a 12 OCV!

Hell yeah! I think that the idea is imperative to help sell 6e on its merits.

 

I would like to see a combat synopsis, similar to the old Ogre-Crusader-Starburst one, but with martial artists sparring and shifting levels and attempting a variety of manuevers. I think this would both demonstrate the pacing of a HERO MA fight, the potential and the power. Show that HERO MA is more than just big damage without big STR and really is about grace and timing.

I almost wonder if there could be a sort of running combat in the sidebars that gradually introduces new and/or alternate rules as they come along in the book.

 

[IndianaJoe3]

Re: HERO SYSTEM MARTIAL ARTS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

What about something like the Language Chart but for martial arts manuevers?

 

I don't think this would work, because each maneuver can represent different things in different arts.

 

Or, alternatively, what of there was a modifier a la Jack of All Trades, Linguist, etc?

 

New Skill Enhancer: Skilled Combatant - Costs 5 points, reduces the cost of all martial maneuvers by one point.

 

The cost is a bit arbitrary. Three points is definitely too cheap, and ten points would probably be too expensive. I remember someone figuring out where diminishing returns kicked in, but I don't remember what that point was.

 

(Yes, I know Steve said he wasn't planning on putting anything like this into HSMA, but that's just a challenge to some of us.)

[Sean Waters]

Re: HERO SYSTEM MARTIAL ARTS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Apart from the actual rule books, UMA is my most used book.

 

I'd like to echo what Panpiper says about building a full set of MA maneouvres being point inefficient - the breadth of knowledge counts for little in Hero, over a certain point, and it would be nice to see something addressing that, although I'm not sure what we can use. For very specific MA Genres you could develop a fighting style based heavily on using the Analyse skill - to predict what your opponent will do and gain bonuses as a result. There could then be a penalty to the roll based on a fraction fo the total points your opponent ahs spent on MA maneouvres. Obviously that is not a general solution but it is one way to make more maneouvres mean what it should - that you are more versatile and harder to fight.

 

Thinking about Nerve Strikes too - generally they only work against opponents who do not ahve resistant defences. I generally play superhero games so resistant defences are almost ubiquitous. It would be nice to have some other basis for affecting a target: someone who is strong might be able to affect someone through resistant defences, or you might use a different basis altogether, perhaps STR v STR, or somesuch.

 

Other than that, what Killer Shrike said - more of the same, more options. UMA is a very good book already.

 

Something I would like to see, and you might be covering this in chapter 3 or 6 is alternative rules, for example, you might present alternative options to the Speed chart for MA campaigns - in fact, combining that with the 'utility for more maneouvres' thing, one alternative approach might be to base speed on a fraction of the total points in maneouvres ont he basis that someone who knows a lot of different atatcks for a given situation is more likely to be able to react quickly to that situation and get a counter in. That's obviously off the top of my head, but such 'flavour rules' could change the whole tone of a campaign.

[Vondy]

Re: HERO SYSTEM MARTIAL ARTS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

I would like to see some characters illustrating that now that CV and DEX are severed that martial artists don't really have to have legendary DEXs to be forces to be reckoned with. Some white eyebrowed and mustached beggar with a 8 DEX, 4m Running with the assistance of a cane but a 12 OCV!

 

 

I very strongly second this request. I have always run more skill centric adventurous games than cinematic games. As a result the average DEX tends to run lower. Even protagonists tend to have DEX scores in the 13-17 range. 18+ is pretty rare. The focus has always been more on maneuvers, skill levels, penalty skill levels, and leveraging the combat system.

[Vondy]

Re: HERO SYSTEM MARTIAL ARTS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Apart from the actual rule books' date=' UMA is my most used book.[/quote']

 

Strange... we agree on something.

 

My games heavily leverage the core rules, the ultimate skill, and the ultimate martial artist. Other than those, I plucked some things out of dark champions and pulp hero. Most of my other hero books are present for completeness and to support the company. They get used, but not very often. I need a copy of the ultimate vehicle and the beastiary. The absence of that last one is killing me right now (I need stats for a jaguar!).

[Steve Long]

Re: HERO SYSTEM MARTIAL ARTS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Just one thing, it is bartitsu.

 

Academically this is undoubtedly correct, but most people know the art from the Sherlock Holmes stories, where the name "baritsu" is used. Given that, and the fact that "bartitsu" is an incredibly silly-sounding word, I'm sticking with Baritsu.

[JmOz]

Re: HERO SYSTEM MARTIAL ARTS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Strange... we agree on something.

 

My games heavily leverage the core rules, the ultimate skill, and the ultimate martial artist. Other than those, I plucked some things out of dark champions and pulp hero. Most of my other hero books are present for completeness and to support the company. They get used, but not very often. I need a copy of the ultimate vehicle and the beastiary. The absence of that last one is killing me right now (I need stats for a jaguar!).

 

sorry for the tangent, so which one is hurting you not having the Ultimate Vehicle, or the beastiary