HERO SYSTEM MARTIAL ARTS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

[Utech]

Re: HERO SYSTEM MARTIAL ARTS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

I noticed a few people asking about parkour and Steve's note that he would not include it as a martial art. I think that's fine, but I also think it might make a good example for writing up a martial art not included in the book.

 

Something along the lines of:

David Belle has seen a lot of parkour videos on YouTube and loves parkour sequences in movies. He asks his GM if he can take parkour as a martial art. David's GM says that it seems to him that parkour can be modeled with extra Running and Acrobatics. David whips out his notebook PC and plays the trailer for District 13: Ultimatum - a movie in which the traceurs engage in plenty of martial arts. David's GM says he's willing to create a new parkour martial art with David so the two put their heads together and come up with a list of moves. Kicking and punching seem really important. Fighting groups of people is also key -- as is the use of things in the environment to strike and/or disrupt opponents...

[Susano]

Re: HERO SYSTEM MARTIAL ARTS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

I noticed a few people asking about parkour and Steve's note that he would not include it as a martial art. I think that's fine, but I also think it might make a good example for writing up a martial art not included in the book.

 

Something along the lines of:

David Belle has seen a lot of parkour videos on YouTube and loves parkour sequences in movies. He asks his GM if he can take parkour as a martial art. David's GM says that it seems to him that parkour can be modeled with extra Running and Acrobatics. David whips out his notebook PC and plays the trailer for District 13: Ultimatum - a movie in which the traceurs engage in plenty of martial arts. David's GM says he's willing to create a new parkour martial art with David so the two put their heads together and come up with a list of moves. Kicking and punching seem really important. Fighting groups of people is also key -- as is the use of things in the environment to strike and/or disrupt opponents...

 

Personally, I don't think parkour is a martial art, much like certain forms of wu shu aren't a martial art (they're more ritualized gymnastics). Parkour strikes me as a movement system (a.k.a. free running), not a fighting style. In both B13 movies, the character of Leïto tends to disable his enemies by moving into environments they can't handle. By making jumps or climbs they can't duplicate, or by knocking things down as he runs which causes them to trip and/or fall. It is a valid skill set for an urban martial artist to have (you see Jackie Chan use proto-parkour moves in his Police Story films, among others) but I don't see it is a distinct form of hand-to-hand combat.

[Susano]

Re: HERO SYSTEM MARTIAL ARTS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

When it comes to write-ups for characters, I'd like to see one or more hot martial artist women presented.

 

The character that Storn Cook drew for NH would be a good example. I'd like to see her write-up.

 

It's in Digital Hero.

[Susano]

Re: HERO SYSTEM MARTIAL ARTS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Come to think of it' date=' having even a few Energy DC's added to a regular strike could be devastating in the right campaign.[/quote']

 

Among the powers I sent Steve were "Flaming Kicks And Punches."

 

 

HSMA could finally answer the question: Who's the mastah?

 

SHO'NUFF!

[Susano]

Re: HERO SYSTEM MARTIAL ARTS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Let me cut this line of reasoning off at the pass. I'm going to put Lucha Libre in HSMA -- since we have a whole book on LL, that's easy enough to do -- but that's it. I'm not expanding the information about professional wrestling any more. I don't think it's necessary, and of the long list of things I have to do for this book, "learn more about professional wrestling" ranks pretty much at rock bottom.

 

Actually, on just about any of my to-do lists, "learn more about professional wrestling" comes in pretty much last.

 

Which is why I got the powers job. Steve gets to read over all of your comments and puzzle out your meanings while writing all of this stuff on the martial arts and building martial arts packages, while i get to kick back and watch films with Jackie Chan, Jet Li, Ekin Cheng, Andy Lau, Sammo Hung, Michelle Yeoh, and Zhang Ziyi, and titles like Ip Man, The Duel, The Storm Riders, Fist of Legend, Musa, The Restless, Final Fantasy VII: Advent Children, and Ninja Scroll while taking lots of notes. It was a dirty job, but hey, I'm willing to take one for the team!

[Susano]

Re: HERO SYSTEM MARTIAL ARTS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

BTW -- for those who run Western fantasy and the like, I did exchange emails with Steve on the subject of Weapons Combat. Basically, I talked about my SCA experiences with researching and learning about late period fighting forms. Much like fencing, which is a fairly elaborate fighting art in its own right, Europe had comprehensive fighting styles for use with the great sword, pollaxe, and the like. The books exist, showing different strikes and maneuvers, meaning one could create packages for European fighters.

 

PS: I will readily admit that SCA fighting experience has no bearing on period fighting. However, much like kendo of Olympic fencing, SCA "stick-fighting" is a valid martial art, it's just a form of "sport-fighting." On the other hand, given a period wooden mace, you can dish out some serious hurt using SCA stances and techniques.

[bigbywolfe]

Re: HERO SYSTEM MARTIAL ARTS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

I have to agree on the issue of parkour not being a martial art. Punching someone while running (even really cool free running with jumps and flips and climbing) doesn’t make the running a martial art any more than punching someone while sprinting on level ground makes high school track a martial art.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: HERO SYSTEM MARTIAL ARTS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

I'm not overly familiar with Parkour, but it sounds like, perhaps, it is a MA made up of numerous maneuvers with the FMove element.

[Susano]

Re: HERO SYSTEM MARTIAL ARTS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

I'm not overly familiar with Parkour' date=' but it sounds like, perhaps, it is a MA made up of numerous maneuvers with the FMove element.[/quote']

 

Maybe Flying Dodge, but that's really it.

[bigbywolfe]

Re: HERO SYSTEM MARTIAL ARTS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

No. Parkour has been used in action movies lately in combination with other Martial Arts. Perhaps knowing Parkour would justify buying a maneuvers with the FMove element, even if the style of MA that is being used generally wouldn't have them. But it isn't a Martial Art in and of itself any more than Gymnastics/Acrobatics or Running/Jogging.

[Ninja-Bear]

Re: HERO SYSTEM MARTIAL ARTS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

I noticed a few people asking about parkour and Steve's note that he would not include it as a martial art. I think that's fine, but I also think it might make a good example for writing up a martial art not included in the book.

 

Something along the lines of:

David Belle has seen a lot of parkour videos on YouTube and loves parkour sequences in movies. He asks his GM if he can take parkour as a martial art. David's GM says that it seems to him that parkour can be modeled with extra Running and Acrobatics. David whips out his notebook PC and plays the trailer for District 13: Ultimatum - a movie in which the traceurs engage in plenty of martial arts. David's GM says he's willing to create a new parkour martial art with David so the two put their heads together and come up with a list of moves. Kicking and punching seem really important. Fighting groups of people is also key -- as is the use of things in the environment to strike and/or disrupt opponents...

 

You know though this is reasonable. Has any ever seen the movie The Master of the Fyling Gullitine ? (I should have suggested this movie to Susano. ) It is an interesting movie which has all sorts of powers. In the movie, there are masters from around the world trying to kill the hero. One villian is a yogi master, his ability is that he can stretch his arms about ten feet. They weren't flexible, but that has to do with the low budget on the effects. My point, just because it isn't a martial art per se, doesn't mean that you can't design it to be one in your world.

 

FWIW, when I was younger, I would rail against this idea, but now that I'm older, I accept this notion. Funny how time changes perspective.

[ghost-angel]

Re: HERO SYSTEM MARTIAL ARTS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Parkour - Is a philosophy of Movement to get from Point A to Point B in the most direct route possible; It was actually developed SPECIFICALLY to do this And Only this. A solid grounding in gymnastics helps, but is not gymnastics. It is not - in any way - a Martial Art. There isn't even Kata present in it as you have to be way more flexible in movement than even the most basic of Kata allows for.

 

Free Running - Uses more gymnastics, more flips, it is less concerned with Point A To Point B than it is with using your environment in new and interesting ways.

 

As an example, a Free Runner may approach a low wall with a bus stop shelter and decide to use the wall to get atop the shelter and then do a flip off the shelter. A Parkour Practitioner would likely bypass the shelter completely as going over it expends more energy than going past it. Neither is even in the most remote sense a Martial Art. Not even if you stretch Martial Arts to include Gymnastics (your teacher may or may not be Mr. T) - and Gymnastics at least has Kata in it.

 

As for little Poser Figures in Martial Stances... wow, if I had the time to research stances and another four weeks - no problem. Alas, I do not have either.

[The Main Man]

Re: HERO SYSTEM MARTIAL ARTS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

What aboutGymkata?

[Susano]

Re: HERO SYSTEM MARTIAL ARTS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

What aboutGymkata?

 

Now you're just talking crazy.

[Ninja-Bear]

Re: HERO SYSTEM MARTIAL ARTS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Parkour - Is a philosophy of Movement to get from Point A to Point B in the most direct route possible; It was actually developed SPECIFICALLY to do this And Only this. A solid grounding in gymnastics helps, but is not gymnastics. It is not - in any way - a Martial Art. There isn't even Kata present in it as you have to be way more flexible in movement than even the most basic of Kata allows for.

 

Free Running - Uses more gymnastics, more flips, it is less concerned with Point A To Point B than it is with using your environment in new and interesting ways.

 

As an example, a Free Runner may approach a low wall with a bus stop shelter and decide to use the wall to get atop the shelter and then do a flip off the shelter. A Parkour Practitioner would likely bypass the shelter completely as going over it expends more energy than going past it. Neither is even in the most remote sense a Martial Art. Not even if you stretch Martial Arts to include Gymnastics (your teacher may or may not be Mr. T) - and Gymnastics at least has Kata in it.

 

As for little Poser Figures in Martial Stances... wow, if I had the time to research stances and another four weeks - no problem. Alas, I do not have either.

 

This is well and good, but my point was missed. As a real world martial art, what you said is true-no argument. But as Utech mentioned, if you wanted to make a "fictional" parkour as a martial art, then I beleive that it is acceptable. Noticed I mention the movie where yoga was a martial art, and you was the guy in Street Fighter II video that used yoga? Again this also depends on what type of game your running. If historical/real, again no arguments that Parkour as is should NOT be included as an art, but as running skill. If though your running a cinematic game, and someone like Utech suggests wants to make it into an art-well why should reality stop you? It never stops some of the source material.

 

And to be extra clear. I'm not advocating for Steve to add Parkour as a Martial Art in this book. I'm just defending the idea that if someone wanted to make it such a thing in their game, then I say go for it. And I'll even help in writting it up.

 

I'm curious though did Steve ever give his working definition of what he considers "Martial Art" ? I'm not saying that it is right or wrong. Just wondering, because the term "martial arts", and what qualifies means different things to different people.

[Susano]

Re: HERO SYSTEM MARTIAL ARTS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

This is well and good' date=' but my point was missed. As a real world martial art, what you said is true-no argument. But as Utech mentioned, if you wanted to make a "fictional" parkour as a martial art, then I beleive that it is acceptable. Noticed I mention the movie where yoga was a martial art, and you was the guy in Street Fighter II video that used yoga?[/quote']

 

Dhalsim

[Ninja-Bear]

Re: HERO SYSTEM MARTIAL ARTS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Dhalsim

 

Thank you

[Utech]

Re: HERO SYSTEM MARTIAL ARTS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Ninja-Bear, thank you. You certainly took my point as it was intended. For those who missed it, I am in no way shape or form suggesting that parkour is a martial art in the real world. What I'm suggesting is it makes a good common reference point in popular culture for how someone might be inspired to create a new martial art.

[BobGreenwade]

Re: HERO SYSTEM MARTIAL ARTS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

I only just now remembered that, right after my best friend was first diagnosed with myotonic muscular dystrophy, she got her first copy of MDA's magazine. The cover story on that issue was self-defense for the disabled, and it was being demonstrated by a quadriplegic in a power wheelchair.

 

I don't think such a thing should be written up in full, but a mention that such a thing exists would be a good thing -- if nothing else it should get someone's creative juices flowing. Probably the best place for it would be under Weapon Elements (this would represent a Wheelchair Weapon Element.)

 

(If requested I can probably hunt down that magazine and find an article reference.)

[Steve Long]

Re: HERO SYSTEM MARTIAL ARTS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

OK, I'm locking this thread for awhile because no one seems to be using it appropriately. Please stop conducting conversations. I don't care what any of you think about what anyone else posted; that's not the purpose of this thread.

[Steve Long]

Re: HERO SYSTEM MARTIAL ARTS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

OK, let's try this again.

[Susano]

Re: HERO SYSTEM MARTIAL ARTS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

One thing that bears mentioning is that in Asia, martial arts films come in many flavors -- there are historical epics, period pieces, biopics, films about real (and fictional) martial arts heroes, and full-blown fantasy films. Some use realistic martial arts (bio pics and Jackie Chan's Police Story films) while many of the others rapidly enter into "wire fu" territory. This latter element is also an important distinction of Asian martial arts movies. Some people dislike (even hate) wire-based martial arts films due to people flying around in the air and the like. I think it's important for people to look at these sorts of films as fantasy (or superhero) films. Western fantasy films have dragons, and orcs, and bare-chested swordsman, and sorceresses in plate and silk bikinis. Eastern fantasy films have super-powered martial artists who can fly, walk on water, cut trees in two with their swords, and fire arrows with the stopping power of a .50 sniper rifle. Many video fighting games verge on fantasy and/or the realm of super-heroes, right down to the colorful costumes and signature attacks.

 

It's also worthwhile to point out that many martial arts films also fill Western genre niches quite nicely. There are war movies (often combined with historical epics), love stories (often a subplot in many films), Westerns (Seven Samurai, Yojimbo, and Seven Swords are basically Westerns), Pulp-era action (Fist of Legend and Ip Man take place in the 30s), detective stories (a lot of the Zatoichi movies seem to involve Zatoichi uncovering some plot or crime), and so on. And these days, with CGI technology, you are getting more adaptations of Chinese comics (and Japanese manga) in live-action form (examples include Dragon Tiger Gate, Shinobi, and The Stormriders).

 

There also seems to be a new class of martial arts movie as well (Oddhat would know better on this), which is the martial arts superhero film. His Asian superheroes game showed me that there are quite a few out there, including Vampire Cop Ricky, Arahan, a new Green Hornet film, and others. I've seen clips (sadly no titles, just the film clips) of fully-costumed individuals slugging it out in what looks like the streets of Hong Kong or Tokyo (or Seoul), showing that Asian cinema is willing to co-op anything (much like Hollywood will gladly steal from Hong Kong).

 

I've also noticed a current trend in adapting video games to the screen. Most have been pretty horrible (Street Fighter, Dead or Alive), although there seem to be a few coming that might be good. Might. So far, the best of these is Street Fighter II: The Animated Movie. In this latter movie, the characters are virtually super heroes, complete with distinctive costumes, powers, techniques, and styles. They even have an evil organization and master villain to fight against (M. Bison and Shadowlaw).

 

To sum up, the martial arts genre, at least cinematically, can encompass just about any gaming genre or sub-genre you could even want to run, from the everyday to as wild as you can possibly imagine.

[kahuna's bro]

Re: HERO SYSTEM MARTIAL ARTS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

well said suano

[Crypt]

Re: HERO SYSTEM MARTIAL ARTS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

The only thing that actually interest me in HMA is the design chapter(s) (combining elements to build maneuvers.)

(IMHO this is a core set of rules which should have been a part of H6E2...)

 

The rest (real world m.a, archetypes, oriental weapons, etc...) is not my cup of tea.

[BobGreenwade]

Re: HERO SYSTEM MARTIAL ARTS -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Mostly what I'm looking forward to is the martial arts "special abilities." Written by Surbrook and enhanced by Long, I expect that section to be a real corker.

 

That said, the aforementioned Cleopatra 2525 TV series (the entirety of which is available on DVD) is an excellent example of Wuxia tricks (albeit relatively low-level ones) in what amounts to a post-apocalyptic Cyberpunk setting, and (IMHO) deserves to be cited as such even if no other reference (direct or indirect) is ever made.