RexMundi Posted March 8, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 8, 2010 Re: A Robert E. Howard moment..... Maybe REH can explain it quicker in his own words. "I'll say one thing about a oil boom; it will teach a kid that Life's a pretty rotten thing as quick as anything I can think of." ~Robert E. Howard, 1931 ~Rex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister E Posted March 9, 2010 Report Share Posted March 9, 2010 Re: A Robert E. Howard moment..... Ah, the Twenties. Amd just for a twist, there's some elements of Howard's biography that are best explained by his being of mixed race, much like his boxing hero, Jack Dempsey. It's even more interesting that he explicitly did not identify Conan the Cimmerian as an "Aryan." What changed between the beginning of his writing career and the appearance of Conan? I think the biggest change in REH was his shift from romanticized historical fiction to out-right lost-world fantasy-scapes, which are more-or-less timeless and unproblematic. All races are inherently artificial wherever encountered. REH runs w/ this notion using the Hyborian Age (& Thurian) to free himself from modern descriptive fictions of people & develop his own imaginative vocabulary. All (or most) of the characters in these stories are pseudo-anthropological analogues from Howard's idealized visions liberally liberated from history. [from REH's letter to Clark Ashtom Smith, dated July 23, 1935]: "It may sound fantastic to link the term "realism" with Conan; but as a matter of fact--his supernatural adventures aside--he is the most realistic character I ever evolved. He is simply a combination of a number of men I have known, and I think that's why he seemed to step full-grown into my consciousness when I wrote the first yarn of the series. Some mechanism in my sub-consciousness took the dominant characteristics of various prizefighters, gunmen, bootleggers, oil field bullies, gamblers, and honest workmen I had come in contact with, and combining them all, produced the amalgamation I call Conan the Cimmerian." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister E Posted March 9, 2010 Report Share Posted March 9, 2010 Re: A Robert E. Howard moment..... Ah but neither Tarzan, Doc, or Cap are in this bar (though such may show up in another thread Idea I have). Just the Core REH folks.......which Sailor Steve is mopping the floor with. ~Rex Sure... I'll play. So: Kull is a tiger... Conan is a lion... Solomon Kane is a wolf... Bran Mak Morn is a panther... El Borak is a hawk... and Sailor Steve Costigan is a walrus... (and) Breckenridge Elkins is a grizzly. I say Red Sonya whips them all into a circus act until they die of broken hearts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vondy Posted March 9, 2010 Report Share Posted March 9, 2010 Re: A Robert E. Howard moment..... Sure... I'll play. So: Kull is a tiger... Conan is a lion... Solomon Kane is a wolf... Bran Mak Morn is a panther... El Borak is a hawk... and Sailor Steve Costigan is a walrus... (and) Breckenridge Elkins is a grizzly. I say Red Sonya whips them all into a circus act until they die of broken hearts. Until she admits she actually has the hots for Gottfried von Kalmbach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister E Posted March 9, 2010 Report Share Posted March 9, 2010 Re: A Robert E. Howard moment..... Until she admits she actually has the hots for Gottfried von Kalmbach. Oh, no! There goes the sexual tension. Now "Redfried" is a just a lack-luster romantic-comedy about dodging cannonballs... & Marvel has to adapt Gottfryed into a pikeman from the Bossonian Marches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RexMundi Posted March 9, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2010 Re: A Robert E. Howard moment..... Well don't forget not to mix up Red Sonya of Rogatino (The Shadow of the Vulture), (REH) with Red Sonja (Roy Thomas and Barry Windsor-Smith...Conan the Barbarian #23, which is basically a re-write of Shadow of the Vulture and combining elements of REH's other character Dark Agnes de Chastillon (also known as Agnes de Chastillon, Dark Agnes, Agnes de la Fere and The Sword Woman))...... As much as Roy Thomas and Barry Windsor-Smith are heroes of mine from and I still snag every REH based comic out there, there's some differences in their work, heh. ~Rex.......keeps a print of the cover of Red Sonja # 15 from Dynamite at 36x48 Hanging on the wall next to the Desk... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susano Posted March 9, 2010 Report Share Posted March 9, 2010 Re: A Robert E. Howard moment..... Well don't forget not to mix up Red Sonya of Rogatino (The Shadow of the Vulture), (REH) with Red Sonja (Roy Thomas and Barry Windsor-Smith...Conan the Barbarian #23, which is basically a re-write of Shadow of the Vulture and combining elements of REH's other character Dark Agnes de Chastillon (also known as Agnes de Chastillon, Dark Agnes, Agnes de la Fere and The Sword Woman))...... As much as Roy Thomas and Barry Windsor-Smith are heroes of mine from and I still snag every REH based comic out there, there's some differences in their work, heh. ~Rex.......keeps a print of the cover of Red Sonja # 15 from Dynamite at 36x48 Hanging on the wall next to the Desk... Speaking of which... I have character sheets for several REH heroes here: http://surbrook.devermore.net/adaptationsbook/bookchar.html#REH Agnes is on my list, as I have an ancient paperback of The Sword Woman and intend to get to it after El Borak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister E Posted March 9, 2010 Report Share Posted March 9, 2010 Re: A Robert E. Howard moment..... Speaking of which... I have character sheets for several REH heroes here: http://surbrook.devermore.net/adaptationsbook/bookchar.html#REH Agnes is on my list, as I have an ancient paperback of The Sword Woman and intend to get to it after El Borak. "You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Susano again." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susano Posted March 9, 2010 Report Share Posted March 9, 2010 Re: A Robert E. Howard moment..... "You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Susano again." Thanks. I know the Conan character sheet pretty much floored everyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister E Posted March 9, 2010 Report Share Posted March 9, 2010 Re: A Robert E. Howard moment..... Thanks. I know the Conan character sheet pretty much floored everyone. Thank you! The Conan quote you used on his character sheet is one of my favorites. Last year I used it in a paper to help illustrate the literary turn in Richard Rorty's ironic post-philosophical decadent utopia. Really, I just think it's a flash piece of prose & I'm monstrously fascinated by REH. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RexMundi Posted March 9, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2010 Re: A Robert E. Howard moment..... That is one of the best quotes for sure. ~Rex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninja-Bear Posted March 9, 2010 Report Share Posted March 9, 2010 Re: A Robert E. Howard moment..... At least one sorcerer in a REH Conan story was able to pull what I'd call wuxia stunts. He punched down doors and guards with minimal effort. So yes' date=' certain sorcerers should be able to whip up on normals.[/quote'] Were you referring to Khemsa of The People of the Black Circle? And I qoute "Conan was rising slowly, shaken and dazed by the cruel craft of that blow which, delivered with an art forgotten of men before Atlantis sank, would have broken like a twig the neck of a lesser man." I'm thinking that that must be about 10d6 normal damage! And if that technique is so powerful, why would anybody forget it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RexMundi Posted March 9, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2010 Re: A Robert E. Howard moment..... HA!.....Probably more. Gaze upon the Sorcerer Surbrook's crafted Parchment that details the Cimmerian powerhouse, and figure; what it would take to Con Stun such a man, or kill a normal one in one blow. ~Rex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susano Posted March 9, 2010 Report Share Posted March 9, 2010 Re: A Robert E. Howard moment..... Were you referring to Khemsa of The People of the Black Circle? And I qoute "Conan was rising slowly, shaken and dazed by the cruel craft of that blow which, delivered with an art forgotten of men before Atlantis sank, would have broken like a twig the neck of a lesser man." I'm thinking that that must be about 10d6 normal damage! And if that technique is so powerful, why would anybody forget it? Yeah, that's him. He also smashed down doors, killed a guard (IIRC), and pulled some other stunts when he escaped with his love interest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burrito Boy Posted March 13, 2010 Report Share Posted March 13, 2010 Re: A Robert E. Howard moment..... So: Kull is a tiger... Conan is a lion... Solomon Kane is a wolf... Bran Mak Morn is a panther... El Borak is a hawk... and Sailor Steve Costigan is a walrus... (and) Breckenridge Elkins is a grizzly. Walrus? No way. Sailor Steve Costigan is a bulldog. The Bull Dog Breed Until she admits she actually has the hots for Gottfried von Kalmbach. I knew he'd show up. Edit: More quotes http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Robert_E._Howard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister E Posted March 14, 2010 Report Share Posted March 14, 2010 Re: A Robert E. Howard moment..... Walrus? No way. Sailor Steve Costigan is a bulldog. The Bull Dog Breed How about, "Sailor Steve Costigan: A bull dog of a walrus of a man"...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RexMundi Posted March 15, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 15, 2010 Re: A Robert E. Howard moment..... How about' date=' "Sailor Steve Costigan: A bull dog of a walrus of a man"...?[/quote'] HA! I could see that actually...... ~Rex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gewing Posted March 20, 2010 Report Share Posted March 20, 2010 Re: A Robert E. Howard moment..... I think Conan would kill Tarzan... but I also think both would kill Captain America &/or Doc Savage. damn, don't say that amongst fantasy fans over a few beers. The bloodshed would be worse than any Conan Novel! though that crappy what if with COnan and WOlverine... I will stop at calling it crappy. And I am not sure I agree with you. Tarzan was iirc superhumanly strong, by most standards(look, he grew up wrestling more intelligent, and aggressive, GORILLAS!). and fast. and a super genius( He was his own reading teacher... with his only language previously being that of the Great Apes. ) Captain America, well... Who is the writer? I would have a hard time betting AGAINST Cap. Sure, Superman would flatten him. FLash would too. Unless the writer liked Cap better... Doc Savage? not quite as strong, fast, etc as Tarzan, imo. Probably better trained, definately better educated. in a fight? I'd bet on Tarzan. Or Conan. Despite the fact that I reallly liked Doc Savage books as a kid. He was just not as savage of a fighter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister E Posted March 21, 2010 Report Share Posted March 21, 2010 Re: A Robert E. Howard moment..... And I am not sure I agree with you. And w/ good reason! First... I'll just say that, imho, Conan's timelessness is an edge, conceptually. The other three are all essentially modern specimens of humanity. Conan isn't. This gives him an x-factor which turns to advantage when you consider the effects of civilization/domestication on animals. Conan's ancestors were giant hairy apes which devolved from barbaric Thurian-age Atlantians. What would be peak or perfection for a modern human may be merely average or competitive to a Cimmerian (especially if Conan is in any way typical or normative... though I suspect he pwnz other Cimmerians like roxors pwn noobs). Second... vs. Tarzan, the question is a matter of comparing pristineness & savageness of natural origin. Conan descends from barbaric mountain giants. Tarzan... from British nobility. There is a strong nurture argument for Tarzan having been raised by apes... but that's his only real lead, and I think it shrinks to nothing as soon as harshness of adult life factors. IMHO, Conan's wanderings throughout the world were more stressful and demanding... which forced him to be ever wary and constantly in go-mode... [will think] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister E Posted March 21, 2010 Report Share Posted March 21, 2010 Re: A Robert E. Howard moment..... Cap vs. Conan: Cap has being a superhero over Conan. Cap can survive in conditions Conan can't (iceburg). Cap leads from the front in conflicts against superhumans in a way that defies logic. He's a virtual phenom. He can lift trucks... pull insane indirect attacks w/ his shield... he throws his body into danger like nobody else. He's awesome! IMHO, in a straight fight w/ Conan he's still going to lose. Why? Because, compared to Conan, Cap is a monster... a supernatural being that should not exist. To me, superheroes are not heroes. Heroes are heroes... and Conan is a hero (not a superhero) that specializes in killing monsters. It's like Ash vs. Ghost Rider... Ash wins because Ghost Rider is undead and Ash wins vs. undead (it is fate). Though Cap is stronger, faster, better geared, better trained, more universally supported... he's not really human anymore, either. He's an iconic weaponized superhuman... a unique creature born of trans-cosmic super-science. Conan's way is to attract such beings (by being in their way) and then frustrate them (to death). If Cap were time-machined to the Hyborian Age... he would inevitably (it is fate) run afoul of Conan... and something about Cap (call it 'taint') would ensure his death. If Conan were time-machined to the Marvel Age... he'd be worse than the Punisher. It's not like he'd be looking to kill superheroes... he just would. Fully magical entities like Thor and Ghost Rider would go first... followed by the less obviously 'magical' supernatural entities like Spider-Man and Hulk... and finishing w/ the most subtly superpowered entities like Iron-Man and Hawkeye. Doc Savage vs. Conan: w/o going into much detail... Doc is what he is... cultivated. He's been groomed. He's motivated to extremes of regimentation. In fact, I think he's too finely tuned. As a conceptual origin for Superman, he attempts to be the best of all things... but he isn't Superman... just a fanatical/insane kind of person whose never really been anything other than a slave of predeterminations. Conan is more flexible. Conan is more natural. Conan is more comfortable. Nature rules... artifice drools. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest steamteck Posted March 21, 2010 Report Share Posted March 21, 2010 Re: A Robert E. Howard moment..... A Conan fan here I see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spence Posted March 21, 2010 Report Share Posted March 21, 2010 Re: A Robert E. Howard moment..... So, Kull, Conan, Solomon Kane, Bran Mak Morn, El Borak, and Sailor Steve Costigan all walk into a Bar. Who's the last one standing at the end of the inevitable Brawl? ~Rex What fight? The sailor buys the first round and everyone gets drunk and then beats up on the wimps while having their way with the wenches Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spence Posted March 21, 2010 Report Share Posted March 21, 2010 Re: A Robert E. Howard moment..... Necroporn and Canned Fantaspam is all you get nowadays....... This is just wrong but I don't know what is worse. The fact that the concepts exist or that you are right..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranxerox Posted March 22, 2010 Report Share Posted March 22, 2010 Re: A Robert E. Howard moment..... Cap vs. Conan: Cap has being a superhero over Conan. Cap can survive in conditions Conan can't (iceburg). Cap leads from the front in conflicts against superhumans in a way that defies logic. He's a virtual phenom. He can lift trucks... pull insane indirect attacks w/ his shield... he throws his body into danger like nobody else. He's awesome! IMHO, in a straight fight w/ Conan he's still going to lose. Why? Because, compared to Conan, Cap is a monster... a supernatural being that should not exist. To me, superheroes are not heroes. Heroes are heroes... and Conan is a hero (not a superhero) that specializes in killing monsters. It's like Ash vs. Ghost Rider... Ash wins because Ghost Rider is undead and Ash wins vs. undead (it is fate). Though Cap is stronger, faster, better geared, better trained, more universally supported... he's not really human anymore, either. He's an iconic weaponized superhuman... a unique creature born of trans-cosmic super-science. Conan's way is to attract such beings (by being in their way) and then frustrate them (to death). If Cap were time-machined to the Hyborian Age... he would inevitably (it is fate) run afoul of Conan... and something about Cap (call it 'taint') would ensure his death. If Conan were time-machined to the Marvel Age... he'd be worse than the Punisher. It's not like he'd be looking to kill superheroes... he just would. Fully magical entities like Thor and Ghost Rider would go first... followed by the less obviously 'magical' supernatural entities like Spider-Man and Hulk... and finishing w/ the most subtly superpowered entities like Iron-Man and Hawkeye. Conan vs. Captain America Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spence Posted March 22, 2010 Report Share Posted March 22, 2010 Re: A Robert E. Howard moment..... Conan vs. Captain America Which version of Cap? The version we are all familiar with or the new movie version where he is a quasi entertainer with no conviction and ashamed of his own uniform........... Spence nods as he gauges the exact amount of primer to use and then steps back to watch the explosion, will Ranxerox snap? Will he??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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