Pattern Ghost Posted March 27, 2010 Report Share Posted March 27, 2010 Ok, I've not found anything definitive with Search, so sorry if this has been gone over before and I've missed it. What I'm looking for are some specific examples of things left out of the Basic Rulebook. The list doesn't have to be exhaustive, but I'd appreciate a few highlights of the more important things. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
torchwolf Posted March 27, 2010 Report Share Posted March 27, 2010 Re: So, what's NOT included in the 6th Ed. Basic Rulebook? Some subtle differences arising from the simplified versions of some rules have caused some discussion here recently. As I have both the full set, the APG and the BR, I can see it can cause some misunderstandings between GMs with the full 6E rules and players with the BR, I thought it might be useful to post these differences. As this is just a list, and no additional info on the rules, I hope posting this will just make it easier for GMs and players, and not doing anything contrary to the interests of Hero Games or DOJ. For starters, BR lists only Standard Heroic and Standard Superheroic Guidelines. BR lists what it does not contain, as follows: Skills: Analyze, Autofire, Cramming, Defense Maneuver, Penalty Skill Levels, Rapid Attack, Teamwork, Two-Weapon Fighting. [bR 24 sidebar] Perks: Access, Anonymity, Computer Link, Deep Cover, Favor, Positive Reputation, Vehicles & Bases. [bR 32 sidebar] Talents: Absolute Range Sense, Animal Friendship, Combat Luck, Deadly Blow, Lightning Reflexes, Off-Hand Defense, Simulate Death, Weaponmaster. [bR 32 sidebar] Powers: Absorption, Damage Negation, Damage Reduction, Deflection, Duplication, Endurance Reserve, Reflection, Shape Shift, Summon; all Automaton Powers. [bR 40 sidebar] Healing uses Simplified Healing rules only. Advantages: Cumulative, Damage Over Time, Delayed Effect, Difficult To Dispel, Does BODY, Does Knockback, Double Knockback, Hole In The Middle, Invisible Power Effects, MegaScale, Penetrating, Sticky, Time Limit, Transdimensional, Trigger, Usable On Others, Variable Advantage, Variable Special Effects. [bR 63 sidebar] Limitations: Inaccurate, Lockout, No Conscious Control, Physical Manifestation, Reduced Penetration, Requires Multiple Users, Restrainable, Variable Limitations. [bR 68 sidebar] Standard Combat Maneuvers: Grab By, Multiple Attack, Shove, Throw, Trip. [bR 98 sidebar] Optional Combat Maneuvers: Club Weapon, Choke, Cover, Dive For Cover, Hipshot, Pulling A Punch, Roll With A Punch, Snap Shot, Strafe, Suppression Fire. [bR 98 sidebar] Equipment: Automatons, Computers, Bases. [bR 116 sidebar] In the BR, Variable Power Pools are excluded, and Flexible Slots in a Multipower have a Stop Sign. All Complications are present in the BR. Of the sample Characters, Defender is built differently in BR than he is in Champions 6E. These are the major differences I can find, going by what is listed, but there are slight differences throughout (like the MP rule on Variable slots). Hope that helps you and anyone else who wants to know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susano Posted March 27, 2010 Report Share Posted March 27, 2010 Re: So, what's NOT included in the 6th Ed. Basic Rulebook? Steve left the rules for making pie out of the basic book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pattern Ghost Posted March 28, 2010 Author Report Share Posted March 28, 2010 Re: So, what's NOT included in the 6th Ed. Basic Rulebook? Thanks torchwolf, exactly what I was looking for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted January 8, 2012 Report Share Posted January 8, 2012 Re: So, what's NOT included in the 6th Ed. Basic Rulebook? Just got directed here. A very good listing, but one mayor error regarding the Multipowers: In the BR' date=' Variable Power Pools are excluded, and Flexible Slots in a Multipower have a Stop Sign.[/quote'] There are nox flexible or fixed slots at all. There are Fixed and Flexible Multipowers. The default, fixed Multipower allows you to use exaclty one slot at a time, regardless of how small that slot is compared to the Multipower Reserve (all slots are priced as Fixed Slots are in 6E1). The GM optional flexible Multipower work just like normal (6E1) Multipowers with flexible Slots. (all slots are priced as Flexible Slots are in 6E1) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Hiemforth Posted January 8, 2012 Report Share Posted January 8, 2012 Re: So, what's NOT included in the 6th Ed. Basic Rulebook? Also, many items that are in the Hero System Basic Rulebook have fewer options than they do in the full rules (in addition to virtually all game elements having less discussion about their use, about how they interact with other game elements, and so on). For example, Aid as presented in the BR has no "Boost" version, and no Only Aid Others or Only Aid Self options. Also, Adjustment Powers in general have fewer options in BR, with only Expanded Effect, Variable Effect, and Delayed Return Rate mentioned (leaving out things like Can Apply/Remove Adders, Limited Special Effect, One Use At A Time, and Only Restores To Starting Values). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninja-Bear Posted January 8, 2012 Report Share Posted January 8, 2012 Re: So, what's NOT included in the 6th Ed. Basic Rulebook? Thanks torchwolf' date=' exactly what I was looking for.[/quote'] Thanks too, I was curious also. And Pattern Ghost for asking what I wouldn't ; ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assault Posted January 8, 2012 Report Share Posted January 8, 2012 Re: So, what's NOT included in the 6th Ed. Basic Rulebook? Thanks torchwolf! Rep to you! Talents: ... Combat Luck, ... Lightning Reflexes, ... Powers: ... Damage Reduction, ... Advantages: ... MegaScale, ... These are the only things that I would use enough to really care about, I can live without Damage Reduction. Megascale is nice for movement powers. In fact, it was pretty much the main reason why I bothered to change from 4e to 5e. I can live without it though. Combat Luck is a major loss. Sticking on that little bit of resistant defence can make a difference between a playable character and a dud. I'll have to find a workaround. Building it from scratch is obvious, of course. Then again, the fact that normal defences now always apply against the Stun from KAs might mean it could be ignored. I might end up buying extra Body for my non-bulletproof characters from now instead of always giving them Combat Luck. Lightning Reflexes is really handy in 6e. Of course, it can be built from scratch as limited DEX. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndianaJoe3 Posted January 9, 2012 Report Share Posted January 9, 2012 Re: So, what's NOT included in the 6th Ed. Basic Rulebook? Lightning Reflexes are really handy in 6e. Of course' date=' it can be built from scratch as limited DEX.[/quote'] Yeah, that's how it's built officially. (6e1 477) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assault Posted January 9, 2012 Report Share Posted January 9, 2012 Re: So, what's NOT included in the 6th Ed. Basic Rulebook? Yeah' date=' that's how it's built officially. (6e1 477) [/quote'] I know. I'm just a little reluctant to start building characters that are supposed to be compatible with 6e Basic, but sneak in stuff from the full rules. I'll get over it, I'm sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brionl Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 Re: So, what's NOT included in the 6th Ed. Basic Rulebook? Thanks torchwolf! Rep to you! These are the only things that I would use enough to really care about, I can live without Damage Reduction. Megascale is nice for movement powers. In fact, it was pretty much the main reason why I bothered to change from 4e to 5e. I can live without it though. Combat Luck is a major loss. Sticking on that little bit of resistant defence can make a difference between a playable character and a dud. I'll have to find a workaround. Building it from scratch is obvious, of course. Then again, the fact that normal defences now always apply against the Stun from KAs might mean it could be ignored. I might end up buying extra Body for my non-bulletproof characters from now instead of always giving them Combat Luck. Lightning Reflexes is really handy in 6e. Of course, it can be built from scratch as limited DEX. It's not like they are verboten, they just aren't mentioned. If you have the full rule books, and want to use them or they would work good for a character that one of your players is creating, there is nothing preventing you from just adding them in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninja-Bear Posted January 21, 2012 Report Share Posted January 21, 2012 Re: So, what's NOT included in the 6th Ed. Basic Rulebook? I'm bummed that Damage Negation isn't in the Basic Rulebook. But this thread has me wondering, how much of the rules do I really use? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Holck Posted March 29, 2012 Report Share Posted March 29, 2012 Re: So, what's NOT included in the 6th Ed. Basic Rulebook? Damage negation isn't significantly different from normal defense and complicates deffense Damage negation offers a solution to being bullet proof as high defense had always been subject to the kill attack stun lottery. Particular in low end game where a 2d6 RKA gun may do 60 stun (12 body x5 stun multiplier) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted March 29, 2012 Report Share Posted March 29, 2012 Re: So, what's NOT included in the 6th Ed. Basic Rulebook? Damage negation isn't significantly different from normal defense and complicates deffense Damage negation offers a solution to being bullet proof as high defense had always been subject to the kill attack stun lottery. Particular in low end game where a 2d6 RKA gun may do 60 stun (12 body x5 stun multiplier) Waht you talkt about is 5E. There is no Stun Lottery in 6E. The Multipliers is 1d3, not 1d6-1 (min 1). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L. Marcus Posted March 29, 2012 Report Share Posted March 29, 2012 Re: So, what's NOT included in the 6th Ed. Basic Rulebook? Remember -- in 6Ed, the STUN Die is a ½d6. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Holck Posted March 29, 2012 Report Share Posted March 29, 2012 Re: So, what's NOT included in the 6th Ed. Basic Rulebook? then impairment rules should be enforced otherwise KA less effective than regular attacks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L. Marcus Posted March 29, 2012 Report Share Posted March 29, 2012 Re: So, what's NOT included in the 6th Ed. Basic Rulebook? Less effective at Stunning and Knocking Out, yes. Better at killing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted March 29, 2012 Report Share Posted March 29, 2012 Re: So, what's NOT included in the 6th Ed. Basic Rulebook? Less effective at Stunning and Knocking Out' date=' yes. Better at killing.[/quote'] Exaclty. It's called Killing attack, not "Stun Lottery Attack" after all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susano Posted March 29, 2012 Report Share Posted March 29, 2012 Re: So, what's NOT included in the 6th Ed. Basic Rulebook? then impairment rules should be enforced otherwise KA less effective than regular attacks KA effectiveness depends on if the target has Resistant Defenses or not. Besides, Impairment requires the target to take BODY damage anyway, so enforcing them doesn't make KAs any more effective it just makes combat a lot more dangerous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Holck Posted March 30, 2012 Report Share Posted March 30, 2012 Re: So, what's NOT included in the 6th Ed. Basic Rulebook? kill attack does more body than a regular attack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L. Marcus Posted March 30, 2012 Report Share Posted March 30, 2012 Re: So, what's NOT included in the 6th Ed. Basic Rulebook? Yep, and Normal Attacks do more STUN. Just as it should be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pattern Ghost Posted March 30, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2012 Re: So, what's NOT included in the 6th Ed. Basic Rulebook? Killing could have been an Advantage to an attack that multiplies or otherwise increases the Body done. Then it'd be on par with a normal attack for Stun and do more Body. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted March 30, 2012 Report Share Posted March 30, 2012 Re: So, what's NOT included in the 6th Ed. Basic Rulebook? Killing could have been an Advantage to an attack that multiplies or otherwise increases the Body done. Then it'd be on par with a normal attack for Stun and do more Body. It would not be on par. Any advantage means your roll less dice*, so you also get less Stun. Also the current model allows to balance the characters defenses towards lethal or nonlethal combat. *You have to keep inside the AP Limits, DC limits and what the Multipower Reserve allows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted April 20, 2012 Report Share Posted April 20, 2012 Re: So, what's NOT included in the 6th Ed. Basic Rulebook? I have not been able to buy 6th Edition Rules yet due to a tough economy' date=' and around the hobby shops AD&D and Warhammer are king. I would advise making available for $150 an Online Bundle of downloads that would include as many 6th Edition Rulebooks as possible plus a month subscription in Champions Online. I have seen AD&D game masters take their lap tops to the gaming sessions rather than a bundle of books, and a $150 Online Bundle would be designed exactly to minimize encumbrance that the game master must apply strength and long term END against to host a game to new players. For $250 I would include campaign settings that would include those not updated yet to 6th Edition.[/quote'] You should propably post that in the Company Questions (http://www.herogames.com/forums/forumdisplay.php/12-Company-Questions) or Games Product Line (http://www.herogames.com/forums/forumdisplay.php/53-HERO-Games-Product-Line) Forums. Here we only discuss the Basic Rulebook Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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