The Hero System is bland and over complicated

[Greywind]

Re: The Hero System is bland and over complicated

 

Cap'n Jack

[Lucius]

Re: The Hero System is bland and over complicated

 

HERO system is a game. You're over-thinking.

 

While I don't necessarily endorse Ghost Angel's metaphor, I'm afraid he's right to say Hero is not a game.

 

Hero is a build-your-own-game kit

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Building my own palindromedary

[Badger]

Re: The Hero System is bland and over complicated

 

Which is now all gone

 

Why is the rum gone?

 

 

What?.......Why is everyone looking at me?

[RexMundi]

Re: The Hero System is bland and over complicated

 

While I don't necessarily endorse Ghost Angel's metaphor, I'm afraid he's right to say Hero is not a game.

 

Hero is a build-your-own-game kit

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Building my own palindromedary

 

I've always looked at ALL RPG's, as a Game kit used by GM's, DM's, Storytellers, Referee's, etc etc etc .....as a Kit, to build your own Game.

 

HERO is just a much more versatile Game Builder then most of the stuff on the market.

 

~Rex

[Guest steamteck]

Re: The Hero System is bland and over complicated

 

I've always looked at ALL RPG's, as a Game kit used by GM's, DM's, Storytellers, Referee's, etc etc etc .....as a Kit, to build your own Game.

 

HERO is just a much more versatile Game Builder then most of the stuff on the market.

 

~Rex

 

And as far as I can tell from other threads much more versatile than even most of its users understand. I agree. old school games encouraged you to make it your own until relatively recently only a few products discouraged this.

[RexMundi]

Re: The Hero System is bland and over complicated

 

And as far as I can tell from other threads much more versatile than even most of its users understand. I agree. old school games encouraged you to make it your own until relatively recently only a few products discouraged this.

 

Other systems are all for "You making your Game your own...." Just keep your mitts off their System and their Logo, heh......

 

HERO at any edition is really difficult to beat as the "One Ring to Rule Them All...." It scores Highly for making the d20 Fanboys I know snivel cry and start looking for things like "Enzite" for their current d20 Project.....

 

~Rex

[Opal]

Re: The Hero System is bland and over complicated

 

Hero is a universal effects-based system. It's 'bland' in the sense of having minimal, hmm, I guess you could say 'flavor bias,' so you can use it for anything. But you can make it as detailed and flavorfull as you like, if you make the effort. To extend the flavor analogy to actual food, a typical setting-specific RPG is like a line of TV dinners, you have a complete meal that's easy to heat and serve and tastes kinda like you'd expect that specific kind of meal to taste. Hero is like a fully stocked kitchen - you can make something awesome with it, if you know what you're doing.

 

Over complicated - well, complex, yes, but not particularly more complex than it needs to be to do what it does (which is basically anything, so that's a lot of complexity).

[JmOz]

Re: The Hero System is bland and over complicated

 

Wow, this is amazing, this thread is still going on...

[The Main Man]

Re: The Hero System is bland and over complicated

 

And as far as I can tell from other threads much more versatile than even most of its users understand. I agree. old school games encouraged you to make it your own until relatively recently only a few products discouraged this.

I think that I am already longing for this time that I never knew.

[RexMundi]

Re: The Hero System is bland and over complicated

 

Heh.....Ah the young folk.....they amuse us old farts so. I suppose it would be a different mindset to have, but then when I first got into the hobby as a little kid the big arguement was this transistion from REAL wargaming over to this Role Playing Game stuff.......

 

~Rex Is not amazed the thread is still going when folks still have something to say about it. The Ebb and Flow of new people resurrect more things then a 4th Ed DnD Cleric in an average RPGA session.

[TSandman]

Re: The Hero System is bland and over complicated

 

~Rex Is not amazed the thread is still going when folks still have something to say about it. The Ebb and Flow of new people resurrect more things then a 4th Ed DnD Cleric in an average RPGA session.

 

And that's a *Good Thing*..... it means that there *IS* new people

[Wolf]

Re: The Hero System is bland and over complicated

 

*snip* resurrect more things then a 4th Ed DnD Cleric in an average RPGA session.

 

How bad is it that I not only get that... but I mean I get that... lol.

[Bodkins Odds]

Re: The Hero System is bland and over complicated

 

I don't, I don't play 4e DND. And in 3e, unless you're hurt, the Cleric shouldn't be casting or even have prepared (thanks to the spontaneous healing spell ability) healing spells in combat.

[Opal]

Re: The Hero System is bland and over complicated

 

Originally Posted by steamteck

And as far as I can tell from other threads much more versatile than even most of its users understand. I agree. old school games encouraged you to make it your own until relatively recently only a few products discouraged this.

 

 

I think that I am already longing for this time that I never knew.

Heh. It's true. In the olden days when only yuppies had cell phones (the size of bricks), a megabyte was a lot of memory (heck, a lot of disk space), and the Cold War was still hot, games were really pretty basic, and suplements weren't released every month (or even every year).

 

It was socially acceptable to create variants for a system you liked. It didn't make you a traitor or a 'hater.'

[torchwolf]

Re: The Hero System is bland and over complicated

 

Old Skool vs Modern Systems:

 

I submit to you for consideration, in comparison to the Hero System's accusation for being "bland and overcomplicated", the following excerpt from the free sample of this recently re-released system:

 

"D. Carrying Capacity

The maximum amount of weight in pounds that a character can lift and remain standing is computed using the following formula:

[(S/10)^3+(E/10)] x W/2 = Carrying Capacity

Where S = Strength, E = Endurance, and W = Weight in Pounds (in common English, ‘One-tenth of the character’s Strength score, cubed, plus one-tenth of the character’s Endurance score, and that total multiplied times one-half of the character’s bodily weight)."

 

(to determine "E. Basic Hand to Hand Damage", the calculated Carrying Capacity is then referenced on a chart to find the type and number of dice you roll)

 

I leave it up to you to ponder if you consider this approach a more modern and smooth game mechanic than the Hero System equivalent.

[Netzilla]

Re: The Hero System is bland and over complicated

 

Old Skool vs Modern Systems:

 

I submit to you for consideration, in comparison to the Hero System's accusation for being "bland and overcomplicated", the following excerpt from the free sample of this recently re-released system:

 

"D. Carrying Capacity

The maximum amount of weight in pounds that a character can lift and remain standing is computed using the following formula:

[(S/10)^3+(E/10)] x W/2 = Carrying Capacity

Where S = Strength, E = Endurance, and W = Weight in Pounds (in common English, ‘One-tenth of the character’s Strength score, cubed, plus one-tenth of the character’s Endurance score, and that total multiplied times one-half of the character’s bodily weight)."

 

(to determine "E. Basic Hand to Hand Damage", the calculated Carrying Capacity is then referenced on a chart to find the type and number of dice you roll)

 

I leave it up to you to ponder if you consider this approach a more modern and smooth game mechanic than the Hero System equivalent.

 

Well, you're not comparing Old to Modern. You're comparing Old to Old. Neither V&V nor the Hero System have changed their carrying capacity formula since the early 80s at least (I don't have V&V 1e, which was released in 78 or 79).

 

Also, the V&V lift formula isn't much worse (and requires no higher math) than Hero's

"Lift = 25 * 2^(STR/5)". Hero just includes a table that rounds in a few areas.

 

If you want to compare Old vs Modern, you might want to pick a system that isn't older than Hero.

[prestidigitator]

Re: The Hero System is bland and over complicated

 

Also, the V&V lift formula isn't much worse (and requires no higher math) than Hero's

"Lift = 25 * 2^(STR/5)". Hero just includes a table that rounds in a few areas.

Oh yes, it's worse. Makes very little physical sense too. Yuck! From a physics standpoint I have to correct your formula very slightly though:

 

Lift = (25

kg

) * 2^(STR/5)

 

Of course, using kilograms for the amount of force you can apply is slightly off, but it's okay as long as we state that its against an acceleration of one gravity (i.e. at the Earth's surface). Encumbrance rules should work fine in lower gravities, though, because we can still assume the inertia of the mass you're carrying makes it difficult to maneuver.

[Netzilla]

Re: The Hero System is bland and over complicated

 

Oh yes, it's worse. Makes very little physical sense too. Yuck! From a physics standpoint I have to correct your formula very slightly though:

 

Lift = (25

kg

) * 2^(STR/5)

 

Of course, using kilograms for the amount of force you can apply is slightly off, but it's okay as long as we state that its against an acceleration of one gravity (i.e. at the Earth's surface). Encumbrance rules should work fine in lower gravities, though, because we can still assume the inertia of the mass you're carrying makes it difficult to maneuver.

 

Well, I was speaking from a complexity standpoint, not a "models reality" standpoint.

[prestidigitator]

Re: The Hero System is bland and over complicated

 

Well' date=' I was speaking from a complexity standpoint, not a "models reality" standpoint.[/quote']

And I was talking both. (Though admittedly I did get a little caught up in the latter.)

[megaplayboy]

Re: The Hero System is bland and over complicated

 

Damage in Hero has always been a little bit "hinky", precisely because STR-based damage is so obviously logarithmic(IOW, x2 lift (+5 STR) = +1 DC; every doubling of potential/kinetic energy adds 1 damage class), and guns start out fairly logarithmic--doubling the caliber will usually octuple the mass (and kinetic energy, if velocities are equal), adding +3 DC of damage. But there's a substantial "fudge factor" as you go up further. If 1000 joules of kinetic energy = 6 DC against a single target (not too far off the mark), then 1 million joules of kinetic energy should equal roughly 16 DC(5d+1 KA), and 8 megajoules(ballpark for a strong kinetic penetrator anti-tank round) should be in the ballpark of 19 DC(6d+1 KA). A 100 megaton nuke should generate total energy output of about 4-5 x 10^17 joules, or about 55 DC(18d+1 KA), which would probably equate to slightly fewer DCs since the damage diffuses outward.

Instead, though, a tank gun is rated at about 24-30 DC(depending on whether you add the AP advantage or not), and nukes are rated at 60 DC(plus the megascaled AoE).

[casualplayer]

Re: The Hero System is bland and over complicated

 

The DCs assigned to weapons in Hero are bland and overcomplicated.

[mkultra]

Re: The Hero System is bland and over complicated

 

The DCs assigned to weapons in Hero are bland and overcomplicated.

LOL. Now go make a video review so we can start a new thread.

[megaplayboy]

Re: The Hero System is bland and over complicated

 

I really miss that old 2nd ed. Champs chart, that listed "Very Heavy Tank Gun" as a 5d6 KA.

[prestidigitator]

Re: The Hero System is bland and over complicated

 

LOL. Now go make a video review so we can start a new thread.

Yeah. This thread is getting bland and overcomplicated.

[RPMiller]

Re: The Hero System is bland and over complicated

 

Yeah. This thread is getting bland and overcomplicated.

 

I'm quite surprised that it snowballed into the size it has become. However, I learned a few things, got some ideas, and generally enjoyed the roller-coaster ride.