Extra-Dimensional Gateways

[bigbywolfe]

This may be a dumb question but I’m blanking and don’t have my books with me. Is the “Gate” Limitation for Teleportation generally allowed for Extra-Dimensional Movement or would it just be a GM call? Also, if using the Gate Lim on X-Dim Movement and you want others to be able to pass through it would you have to buy Usable By Others for the total number of people able to go through or just Usable by one other if they only go through the portal one at a time?

I'm working in 5E currently, if that matters, but I think the answer would be the same either way...

[BobGreenwade]

Re: Extra-Dimensional Gateways

 

To build a gate, you need the Advantages Usable On Others, Area Of Effect (Radius) (in 6E; in 5E it's Area Of Effect [One Hex]), and Constant, along with the -1/2 Gate Limitation.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Extra-Dimensional Gateways

 

What he said.

 

Also, take a look at this old thread:

Gates in EDM and Teleport

[bigbywolfe]

Re: Extra-Dimensional Gateways

 

I new I needed the other stuff for gate, I just didn't remember if it applied to EDM at all. Thanks for the quick responses and link. I probably should have been able to find that thread, but it was late, thanks.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Extra-Dimensional Gateways

 

I think the number of people who can go through are better covered by the Area of Effect than by Usable On Others in this case. Certainly AoE is a legitimate way to apply a power to more than one target at once. But YMMV.

[dmjalund]

Re: Extra-Dimensional Gateways

 

I think the number of people who can go through are better covered by the Area of Effect than by Usable On Others in this case. Certainly AoE is a legitimate way to apply a power to more than one target at once. But YMMV.

using the RAW, you also have to buy up the Mass Affected, to have a bigger throughput (of kg/phase)

[prestidigitator]

Re: Extra-Dimensional Gateways

 

using the RAW' date=' you also have to buy up the Mass Affected, to have a bigger throughput (of kg/phase)[/quote']

Maybe if you want to affect huge inanimate objects. Otherwise, I think Area of Effect and Constant cover it even in the RAW (if you'll recall a Constant AoE affects anything that moves into the area immediately, and then on each of the attacker's Phases--the latter being pretty irrelevant in this case).

[bigbywolfe]

Re: Extra-Dimensional Gateways

 

I think you still need at least one level of Usable by Other/Usable as Attack to make it work RAW. In my case it will be a small portal that only one or two people can go through at a time and it will be mostly a flavor power for a super that comes from the fairy dimension (don't remember what it's called in the CU) wit a lot of limitations, so I'm not too worried about it.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Extra-Dimensional Gateways

 

Oh yeah, certainly. You need UOO. I just don't think you normally need increased mass.

[BobGreenwade]

Re: Extra-Dimensional Gateways

 

Per 5ER 234, the amount of weight a Teleport Gate can handle is limited by the amount of weight on the Teleportation Power. Thus, to increase the amount of weight requires Increased Mass. Since this is written specifically to apply to Gates, it would logically overrule what's written about AOE and Constant.

 

6E1 301 retains the same wording.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Extra-Dimensional Gateways

 

Per 5ER 234' date=' the amount of weight a Teleport Gate can handle is limited by the amount of weight on the [i']Teleportation[/i] Power. Thus, to increase the amount of weight requires Increased Mass. Since this is written specifically to apply to Gates, it would logically overrule what's written about AOE and Constant.

 

6E1 301 retains the same wording.

I disagree. That wording strongly implies it's talking about objects (e.g. "To carry truly large objects, it needs lots of extra mass and a larger Area Of Effect (to make the Gate wide enough for large objects to go through)."). The basic rules for Teleportation allow a character to teleport himself and his personal gear without buying any Increased Mass, and UOO allows the non-owning character to use the Teleportation on himself as if he owned the power. Certainly if another character were to walk through the gate carrying a pickup truck the gate would need Increased Mass, but not if three people walk through one after the other or one of them happens to have some Growth and Density Increase active. The mechanism for increasing mass under UOO also states that it is specifically for inanimate objects, not characters to whom you are "lending" the power (6E1 p. 355).

[BobGreenwade]

Re: Extra-Dimensional Gateways

 

In practice, Steve uses Increased Mass.

 

This might be a good question to ask him in the Rules Questions Forum, though.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Extra-Dimensional Gateways

 

I think these two questions from the 6e FAQ already cover it:

 

Q: How many people can use a Gate at once?

 

A: A Gate has to be bought with some form of Usable On Others -- either Usable By Other or Usable Simultaneously (most often the latter). The value of the Advantage defines how many people can use the Gate at once; it’s certainly possible (though rare) for someone to make a Gate that thousands of people could go through at a time (though that would require the Gate to be pretty large and to be able to handle a lot of Increased Mass).

 

Q: Does the mass restriction on a Gate apply per person/object going through the Gate, or overall per Segment?

 

A: The mass for a Gate defines the mass of any given person or object that can move through the Gate. It’s not a per-Segment restriction, it’s a per-person (or object) restriction.

[BobGreenwade]

Re: Extra-Dimensional Gateways

 

And so Hyper-Man achieves The Correct Answer.

[prestidigitator]

Re: Extra-Dimensional Gateways

 

Ah. Okay. Defined by the UOO Advantage. That's going to be a definite house rule for me, though; Area of Effect is directly intended to change a Power so it affects multiple targets, so it trumps the number of users in UOO in my mind. (Also that answer talks about the number of people who can use the Gate "at once" without really clarifying what that means: per Segment, per Phase of the character who owns the Teleport, number of people who can Coordinate a Move Through into the Gate at once, or what?) Furthermore, in my opinion the second answer:

 

Q: Does the mass restriction on a Gate apply per person/object going through the Gate, or overall per Segment?

 

A: The mass for a Gate defines the mass of any given person or object that can move through the Gate. It’s not a per-Segment restriction, it’s a per-person (or object) restriction.

 

still does not mean that larger people can't use the Gate unless Increased Mass has been added in; it means they can't carry a large amount of mass in addition to their ordinary body weight and normal equipment. IMO that's what, "mass of any given person," means relative to the Teleport Power, just as if they had purchased the Teleport themselves. If a giant still can't crawl through the Gate despite easily fitting in the Area of Effect, I'd say that's worth a Limitation (probably -0 to -1/4).

[BobGreenwade]

Re: Extra-Dimensional Gateways

 

Hopefully Steve is monitoring this thread, and will address the issue in APG2.

[archermoo]

Re: Extra-Dimensional Gateways

 

Ah. Okay. Defined by the UOO Advantage. That's going to be a definite house rule for me' date=' though; [i']Area of Effect[/i] is directly intended to change a Power so it affects multiple targets, so it trumps the number of users in UOO in my mind.

 

Further clarification of intent from the FAQ:

 

How does the Area Of Effect Advantage interact with Usable On Others? If a UOO power also has an Area Of Effect, can if affect everyone in the area regardless of whether the number of people/weight limit is exceeded?

 

A: Area Of Effect does not overcome the number of people/weight limit imposed on UOO powers. However, it does have some effects. First, it makes it easier to target the power, since it only has to hit DCV 3 to affect the target area. Second, up to the number of people/weight limit, it allows the user to affect anyone in the area, regardless of whether he has Line Of Sight to them, as long as the effect is maintained (in other words, Area Of Effect sort of takes the place of Persistent in this respect).

 

That is from the 5th edition FAQ, but I'm pretty sure that Steve hasn't changed his stance on the issue. So basically the UoO advantage limits the maximum number of people that can be granted the Power, and Area Effect determines who can be targeted for having the power granted to them.

 

Not trying to tell you how you have to run it, I just wanted to point out the intent of the rules.

[dmjalund]

Re: Extra-Dimensional Gateways

 

Further clarification of intent from the FAQ:

 

 

 

That is from the 5th edition FAQ, but I'm pretty sure that Steve hasn't changed his stance on the issue. So basically the UoO advantage limits the maximum number of people that can be granted the Power, and Area Effect determines who can be targeted for having the power granted to them.

 

Not trying to tell you how you have to run it, I just wanted to point out the intent of the rules.

sounds like for gateway, Area Affect is less valuable than the advantage cost would indicate

[archermoo]

Re: Extra-Dimensional Gateways

 

sounds like for gateway' date=' Area Affect is less valuable than the advantage cost would indicate[/quote']

 

If you as a Ref feel that the suggested values for an Advantage or Limitation aren't appropriate in a particular situation you should of course modify them. Seems appropriate to me.