Fallout Hero (6E)

[NanoEther]

OK, started out with a simple (or not so) HD question and ended up hashing campaign ideas for Fallout. Of primary concern is how to handle radiation so that it models Fallout and is simple to implement.

 

the original thread is here: http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php/81665-Charicteristic-Max-Values-for-Normal-Maxima?p=2065153#post2065153

 

Of interest is mudpyr8's resources (He's been running Fallout at cons): http://www.legendsmiths.com/adventures/fallout

 

EDIT (1-30-2011)

This thread has just gained it's 3rd page, so I've decided to re-post some of the links here so you don't have to search the thread for them. I will update the links from time to time.

 

mudpyr8's Fallout Equipment (including a full HeroDesigner Prefab file): http://sites.google.com/a/legendsmiths.com/legendsmiths/adventures/fallout/equipment

 

A pdf found by Mudpyr8: http://hps.org/hsc/documents/Planning_Guidance_for_Response_to_a_Nuclear_Detonation-2nd_Edition_FINAL.pdf

A Hero Ref Sheet: http://www.legendsmiths.com/downloads/HeroReferenceSheet-Landscape.pdf?attredirects=0&d=1

The Main HERO FO page at Legendsmiths: http://www.legendsmiths.com/adventures/fallout

 

Vault HERO on HERO Central: http://www.herocentral.net/campaignInformation.htm?campaignId=945846

 

The Fallout Wiki, The Vault: http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Fallout_Wiki

 

If I start other threads for converting FO to Hero, I will add them here to make them easily accessible.

 

/EDIT

 

mudpyr8

How about just tracking it as a Custom Complication

Rad Count: 50

 

That seems the easiest, and then you don't have to modify any export formats (which a custom characteristic would require). If you take a look at my Radiation rules for Fallout, maybe we can come to an agreement on how to track it in HD (which I am a heavy user of).

NanoEther

I opted for the 1000 point rad count in the following way:

 

I was adding the modifier "Does RAD"

So I was checking how it would map, using your notes for converting the base points from a Rad type attack from fallout, I found that they mapped really well, so well that I found that there was no need to adjust FOs scale.

 

I've been playing with the idea of just deriving it from CON, maybe making it a power with a zero cost if you take it as 50 x CON, and allow a character to buy or sell points. Basically, you're acknowledging that you have this innate ability.

 

I had Rad Resistance as a Characteristic, but I think I'm going to make it a power, rather then using the method in 6E or PA Hero (which are the same), my main problem with the core rules is that you have to 1) determine the amount, 2) determine how much protection your character has using a table, and raising that value by a power to determine how much protection you have. and 3) multiplying the result to the base damage.

 

I'm trying to figure an easier solution that will allow use of simple multiplication or division at the most, hopefully just addition/subtraction, hopefully without sacrificing too much 'realism' while matching it to FO.

 

Basically, items that give you a resistance either do it as a fixed amount or as a variable amount. To clarify, anything that provides full resistance uses a fixed value while partial cover provide a variable amount.

 

So yea, I am interested in options, but I'm pretty sure that the core rules aren't the way I want to go.

mudpyr8

I actually think the Hero rules work fine, but the rad count is too low (or Fallout is too high). The rate is about 4x (see my notes: http://www.legendsmiths.com/adventur...nversion-notes). I don't want to adjust FO scale either.

 

Power or Talent, I think 1pt for 5% Resistance is about right.

 

Change Environment should allow 50 rads for 1 pt as a power. Maybe that's too much - 10 pts for 1pt might work. Essentially at 1000 you are assured to kill someone (8d6K) so that would be about 120pts. Soften it up a little, and its 1 pt per 10 Rads.

 

Vault Born would start at 0 Rads, Wastelanders at 50-100. Use the chart on 6E2 154 but multiply the thresholds by 4 and I think it works.

NanoEther

Using the FO numbers means that your point value chart does not have to have a special case for radiation, plus it maps to real world values and you can use the Radiation Resistance values as present in FO (i.e., a rad suit that gives you 10 points or Rad resistance still gives you 10 points of rad resistance, and a Glowing one does a base of 8 1/2D6 to 9D6 which could cause around 50 points of rad damage)

 

I was just considering it, try this:

Instead of making Rad Resistance a Power, make it a modifier so that it can be applied to Powers such as Damage Negation (or just use the built in Energy and add Radiation as a descriptor), so you can have DN (Radiation, [levels]), or Barrier. Of course, you could just apply it as a limitation "only works against Radiation Damage".

 

Oops, just realized I dropped a zero, it would be 500 x CON; so a 20 CON would net you the 1000, while a 10 CON would only get 500. This actually isn't too bad a model, 1000 rads is assured to kill someone within a week, but plenty of people will die sooner then that and with a lower rad level.

That's where we finished

 

I forgot about the differences in Killing Attacks and Normal Attacks, but a RAD attack as I'm defining it isn't really BODY and isn't really STUN, it can cause BODY after a while but that's a side effect. It's not a part of the base attack, it's more like bleeding from a wound. So what this means is that the values for RAD attack are bought as a normal attack and applied against the targets RAD. This is one reason I feel that RAD is better defined as a characteristic, it's another attribute that can be targeted by various effects; unfortunately, it breaks HD and requires any exporters to be modified, making it a pain to implement it the way it should.

 

So,

1) figure out how to determine a characters RAD and how to buy it; target value is 1000. At present, 500 x CON, + or - modifiers

2) add the following Powers: Radiation Negation [modeled after Damage Negation or Power Defense, probably should be folded into DN, Power Defense would just need to define it as RAD; I prefer these to other options]

3) add the following modifiers: Does RAD (+1 1/2) [modeled as an AVAD(uncommon), but the damage is applied to the characters RAD]

4) RADs do cause damage and other complications, the effects given below are not cumulative, use healthy CON to determine all break points:

0 RAD

 

• HERO(No Damage)
  
• Fallout(No Damage)
  

RAD/5

 

• HERO(1D6 CON)
  
• Fallout(-3 CON, +1 BODY/day)
  

2x RAD/5

 

• HERO(2D6 CON)
  
• Fallout(-5 CON, -3 DEX, 1/2D6 BODY/day)
  

3x RAD/5

 

• HERO(2D6 CON, 1D6 BODY)
  
• Fallout(-8 CON, -5 DEX, -3 STR, 1D6 BODY/day)
  

4x RAD/5

 

• HERO(3D6 CON, 2D6 BODY)
  
• Fallout(-8 CON, -5 DEX, -5 STR, 1D6+1 BODY/day)
  

RAD

 

• HERO(4D6 CON, 3D6 BODY)
  
• Fallout(-8 CON, -8 DEX, -5 STR, 1 1/2D6 BODY/day)
  

By Hero rules you take the damage at the break point and recover the damage slowly (your REC each month until later stages), this is more realistic, but that isn't really FO. For the converted Fallout, the BODY damage is Killing, you have internalized the radiation and until you flush it or heal the damage you are affected. At max RAD on average you will take 5 points each day, and can take up to 9 a day; that's 35 to 63 in a week, which is in keeping with the life expectancy of someone who has absorbed 1000 rads. You do recover from RAD damage, but at the rate or REC/month in RADs; once your RAD level drops below a break point, you recover affected characteristics at the same rate. Rates of recovery at the 4/5th level is REC/2 per month; once you go over max RAD, 1D6 of each characteristic is permanent, recoverable only through experience points.

[NanoEther]

Re: Fallout Hero (6E)

 

Skills:

I'm going with most of the suggestions from PA Hero, including adding Concealment: Scavenging and Survival: Radzones and Survival: Ruins. Not sure about wasteland survival, I don't really see a need since the other regions are wasteland; in fact, for FO, it makes more sense to have an Oasis survival for pockets of vegetation.

 

Perks:

Keeping Money, just changing the values and denomination

Vehicles, thinking about adjusting cost, especially for starting out.

 

Powers:

As discussed above, Radiation defense is moved from the realm of NND and AVAD

 

Character creations and advancement:

I'm working on an intro to Hero type game, so players are going to buy most powers as completed constructs from a list. These are going to mirror perks from FO. I also wanted to control how often these perks could be bought, so I figured out how many Hero experience points would awarded based on the quests and compared this to the number of bonus exp awarded in FO. A slight issue cropped up since FO is level based, so as the 'level' of the quest increased, so did the bonus exp, even though the number of challenges did not. What I came up with is a 1:50 ratio, every 1 hero exp = 50 FO exp. This only applies to exp earned and is only used to restrict purchase of FO style perks and determine when some of these perks give bonuses. The character is still able to buy skills, characteristics, and other things as stated in hero.

[Legendsmiths]

Re: Fallout Hero (6E)

 

I think in you RAD example above you mean to say 50xCON (e.g. 50 x 10 = 500). 500xCON is going to average then at 5000 RADS and in Fallout you are dead at 1000, so that doesn't make sense. I'm not sure you need to create a new stat, but I think your levels/ approach is fine. You have each level as 20% of max.

 

Why not just go with:

10xCON

20xCON

30xCON

40xCON

50xCON

 

I think that's too low. The effects in Fallout are milder and there are more RADS than the realistic scale presented in Hero. I think the difference is about 4x, so just increase those thresholds by x4.

[Legendsmiths]

Re: Fallout Hero (6E)

 

I updated the Fallout Equipment (including a full HeroDesigner Prefab file): http://sites.google.com/a/legendsmiths.com/legendsmiths/adventures/fallout/equipment

 

All miscellaneous items, chems, foods, beverages, armor, weapons, schematics - it's all there.

 

Here is an excerpt from my conversion notes on Recovery. I think this really helps replicate the meta aspect of eating/survival in fallout an has actually made food an important aspect of the game in a mechanical fashion.

Healing

 

Hero can be a bit grittier than Fallout when it comes to damage and healing. On the equipment list for example, there is no such thing as a first aid kit. This is probably okay, as long as you allow Paramedics at -1 per 2 BODY lost to stop any bleeding with no modifier. If you want it grittier, introduce a First Aid Kit at a cost of 50, weight of 2. It grants +2 to stop bleeding.

 

Characters recover an amount of BODY equal to their REC per month. This rate is doubled if resting (no travel, no combat, no significant END expenditure). An attending physician can make a Paramedics Roll at -3 each day to boost this by 10% per point of success (maximum 50%).

 

Stimpaks provide Healing 3d6N with Paramedics (Medicine) roll, +1d6N per 2 success, half on failure.

Med-X provides +8 PD & ED, lasting 4 minutes with a 6- Addiction check, resulting in 3 days at -3 INT & DEX.

 

Recovery

 

Characters do not get post-segment 12 recoveries.

Sleeping characters get a recovery every 1 hour of uninterrupted sleep.

Characters can take a Recovery action if they combine it with an appropriate consumable.

Drinks grant a multiple of REC in STUN and END without taking a Recovery action.

Starvation

If characters eat an extra meal (food, not beverage) they can "bank" a standard recovery, representing the fact that they are well fed and rested. This recovery can be "stored" for 6 hours. It may be used with the standard Hero recovery rules (post-seg 12, unconscious, as an action, etc.). This is an exception to the recovery rules listed above.

 

Starvation

 

Since Recovery is only enabled by sleeping and eating, starvation really becomes a function of having enough food to survive combat and travel. Long distance travel is 1 STUN & END per 1 hour of travel (at normal rate) plus the END Cost Per Hour value of Encumbrance. So, a 10 STR person carrying 30kg of gear (+3 END per Hour) would expend 4 END every hour of travel at regular rate. High or Low Temperature rules apply as written on 6E2 145, but the rules for Starvation and Dehydration may be unnecessary considering the effect that no free recoveries grants.

 

I just ran the first adventure using these rules and the players really liked them.

[Nolgroth]

Re: Fallout Hero (6E)

 

Sounds brutal. I imagine that it would be a very fun mini-campaign divergence. I think these rules are also a sound basis for a Dark Sun style game. Repped.

[NanoEther]

Re: Fallout Hero (6E)

 

Sorry, didn't draw it out, (RADS), but you're right, I have one extra 0; I was thinking of the 1000RAD target being obtained at 20CON, so 1000 / 20 = 50.

 

Problem is that Characteristics in 6E aren't derived, so I'm leaning your way, but how do you build it?

 

And I've been thinking about moving the BODY damage done by RADs down, so it's 0 BODY, 0 Body, +1 BODY, 1/2D6 BODY, 1D6 BODY, 1D6+1 BODY. The reason I based the levels off of RAD was that I think there should be a way that RAD could be raised, other then raising CON. Guess I should have mentioned that.

Obviously I was reconsidering how brutal my version was, I may even go 0, 0, +1, +1, +1/2, +1/2. According to studies, a person may live up to a week once their RAD count hits 1000; with a BODY of 10-12, a character can survive for around 5 days (without using meds)

 

I do think that BODY (and maybe STUN) needs to be added to the FO version since CON does not inherently affect BODY, unlike in FO. In FO, every drop of END(FO) results in a loss of 20 HP, So you'd see a loss like this: 0, -20, -40, -60, -60, death.

[NanoEther]

Re: Fallout Hero (6E)

 

Thought on Bobbleheads, what if they have 1 charge that takes 1 or more years to recharge, I'm thinking 5 or 10 years. This makes them still desirable. Of course one can still only benefit from one bobblehead of a type (you can't have multiple bobbleheads that affect the same things, so you can't stack, say, 3 STR and get the benefits from all of them). Maybe making the effects wear off when the charge resets, so you'd want to hang on to your collection so that you can maintain your benefit.

[NanoEther]

Re: Fallout Hero (6E)

 

OK, was looking at the equipment files and have a couple construction questions:

When do you use (if ever) the following:

1) Real Weapon

2) Focus (is this for an personal power that needs an external control, i.e., a holy symbol or spell component?)

3) Inherent & Always on

[The_Patriot]

Re: Fallout Hero (6E)

 

Real Weapon just means that the weapon requires constant maintenance to keep it working. Failure to do maintenance means that sooner or later the weapon will malfunction causing harm to the user.

 

Focus is used for every item from weapons to armor to sunglasses. It defines a power into a single object. Powers without the Focus limitation are part of the character. Focus also means that depending upon the type of focus it is will determine if it can be broken and stolen. An example of a focus would be the M4 Carbine. It's a Ranged-Killing Attack that isn't a natural part of the character, so it's written up with the Focus limitation. Usually, the focus for the M4 is that it's Obvious and Accessible, which means that people know exactly that the M4 did the attack not sunglasses a character is wearing. Accessible just means that someone can try to grab the weapon from the character and remove it.

 

Inherent is the opposite of a Focus in a way. It is applied to persistent powers and is a natural, inherent part of the character's being.

 

Always on means that you can never turn the power off no matter what you do to the character.

[Legendsmiths]

Re: Fallout Hero (6E)

 

Building on what The_Patriot said, those really aren't necessary per se. They're just noise, and implied (Real and Focus anyway). Inherent could be appropriate in the right circumstances, but isn't here. Dispels vs. equipment are rare, and most equipment would be susceptible anyway. Always On would almost never be applied.

 

I try to keep my equipment lists as lean as possible, especially since the point values don't matter. Nearly every object therein is an OAF with the exception of Armor, which would be OIF. In a Heroic game that almost never is really an issue since we know that weapons can be grabbed in combat and armor is worn.

 

OK, was looking at the equipment files and have a couple construction questions:

When do you use (if ever) the following:

1) Real Weapon

2) Focus (is this for an personal power that needs an external control, i.e., a holy symbol or spell component?)

3) Inherent & Always on

[Legendsmiths]

Re: Fallout Hero (6E)

 

Thought on Bobbleheads' date=' what if they have 1 charge that takes 1 or more years to recharge, I'm thinking 5 or 10 years. This makes them still desirable. Of course one can still only benefit from one bobblehead of a type (you can't have multiple bobbleheads that affect the same things, so you can't stack, say, 3 STR and get the benefits from all of them). Maybe making the effects wear off when the charge resets, so you'd want to hang on to your collection so that you can maintain your benefit.[/quote']

 

Maybe - you could treat it as a lucky charm or magic item... +x while it is in your possession (and that's probably the best way to make them valuable). Don't give them a charge, however, just have them work.

 

In FO, they enable you to raise your characteristics beyond your starting profile. I think the same would be appropriate in Hero, and allow them to ignore Characteristic Maxima... but you should still require the character pay points for that opportunity unless they really are "bags of points" that you can pick up for free.

[NanoEther]

Re: Fallout Hero (6E)

 

I wanted my players to be able to leave them in a display and not have to worry about carrying them. Granted I intend to make them very rare, 1 or 2 to a medium state-sized region (think Indiana or Ohio or the New England states). I also wanted to keep players from just handing them back and forth whenever they needed a bonus. I am also going to need to specify charges or make transfers require time to take effect due to the players I have. Maybe have the charge begin resetting once ownership is lost.

 

I am going to give them a suitable low-point weapon for free (built into the package deals); any additional weapons will cost build points, after character creation, weapons will be acquired or purchased.

 

I do need to remember KISS when I'm doing builds, but knowing what is needed and what isn't require some experience, so thanks for clarifying those modifiers.

[Legendsmiths]

Re: Fallout Hero (6E)

 

This is a common question for Hero, but why pay points for equipment in Fallout? FO is very much equipment/trading heavy and paying points for stuff really doesn't work all that well unless you use something like Resource Pools and then that gets away from KISS.

 

I'd suggest the standard "Start with x caps" and buy equipment would be the way to go. Something like a Gatling Gun costs way more points that players can earn XP... it just doesn't work. Not to mention, economic value != point value of an item. I think you should reconsider that approach.

 

Bobbleheads with a charge that lasts a really long time (possibly longer than the campaign) really doesn't make sense. The limitation of a charge needs to be appropriate for its utility. Let's say a Bobblehead gives +3 STR. Metaphysics of what a bobblehead is and how it "knows" that it's been used aside, you intend that +3 STR to be granted to the first person who decides to use the Bobblehead and that +3 is good for...? Forever? 1 year? In the game it's implied that it's forever, and they can't be traded, but it's a metagame element to begin with so who's to say.

 

If it were reusable, I suppose I would build it as 1 Continuing Charge (1 Century, Recoverable, Recovers Under Limited Circumstances: Must be lost and forgotten; +1 1/2). That technically (IMO) would work, but all it really does is grant a character +3 STR (permanently in effect) and transfers ownership once lost & forgotten.

 

Continuing that thought then, why not just make it a bonus as an IIF Personal Focus (1 owner at a time) -1/4. It's almost really just a Physical Manifestation (which is -1/4). Add Only until Lost & Forgotten -1/4, and I think that sets it up.

 

To a certain extent though, this is really academic. If the characters have to pay points for the Bobblehead, and they don't lose them once they are granted the boost, then the Bobblehead is really just a plot device for them to either spend those points or get them for free. The mechanics of building the bobblehead really aren't all that relevant. If the character gets +3 STR permanently, you are either giving him 3 points or he is spending them - there are not effective limitations on those points, unless losing the bobblehead loses the points as well.

[NanoEther]

Re: Fallout Hero (6E)

 

I was only intending to use points to acquire items at character creation, once the game started they would use caps or whatever the economy used.

 

Bobbleheads would not be available at character creation, they're one of those 'other' rewards that you have to look for. Best placement would be near the end of an adventure; say we had cleared out the RobCo factory, maybe a Mechanics Bobblehead somewhere in the factory. Could it get overlooked? Sure! took me while to locate some of the bobbleheads in the game and that was with the guide, I had to resort to a video for two of them, and I found that had I just turned around I would have found one of them.

 

I like the IIF build, it fits what I want it to work like.

 

New item, I was looking at your rules and saw that stat increases were not allowed after character creation. There is a FO Perk that allows you to increase a stat. So, do you have a limit to how many points can be spent in characteristics (& on Luck)?

 

I'm planning on using pseudo levels to control when certain things can be done, such as buying powers or characteristics; it will also define when and how some powers provide their bonus.

[Legendsmiths]

Re: Fallout Hero (6E)

 

The Perk is really restrictive in terms of character development. You could allow a 3 character points or +3 to a characteristic to be purchased every 100pts or so.

 

I don't know as pseudo levels are necessary. Just put point limits (i.e. Perk such and such is only available to characters built on 200 pts). Levels don't really add anything to the equation.

[NanoEther]

Re: Fallout Hero (6E)

 

That's pretty much what I want to do, and I agree that it is another level of abstraction that isn't really needed if I just state the they must have spent x points on their character before they can purchase a particular prefab.

 

Next one, I've been looking for information on how shielding is calculated, I though there was one that used simple math, but I was wrong. What I did find was data on halving. Rather then going through the math (powers of 2), to determine how much radiation penetrates, I'm thinking about just treating radiation that's attempting to penetrate shielding as an explosion of sorts. For every halving-thickness, drop the highest die. Depending on how much shielding you have depends on how much is dropped. Remember, this damage is radiation, it is non-targeting and is able to pass through barriers that do not provide adequate shielding.

 

Here's the chart to determine how the attack is shielded.

Shielding        Adjustment       Min Die
 1 - 10           None        Full Attack
11 - 24        -1d every 5           8
25 - 50        -1d every 4           4
51 - 74        -1d every 3           2
75 - 90        -1d every 2           1
91 - 100       -1d every 1           0
Enclosed       -1d every 1           0

Shielding is the percentage of the target that has shielding from the emission, The adjustment is how many halving thicknesses there must be before you drop the highest die, and the Min Die is the minimum number of die that will still affect the target.

 

And from the Radaition Protection Wikia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiation_protection):

 

 

Shielding design

Shielding reduces the intensity of radiation exponentially depending on the thickness.

This means when added thicknesses are used, the shielding multiplies. For example, a practical shield in a fallout shelter is ten halving-thicknesses of packed dirt, which is 90 cm (3 ft) of dirt. This reduces gamma rays by a factor of 1/1,024, which is 1/2 multiplied by itself ten times. Halving thicknesses of some materials, that reduce gamma ray intensity by 50% (1/2) include:

 

[font=Courier New]                              Halving       Halving                     Halving 
 [/font][font=Courier New]                            Thickness,    Thickness,    Density,      Mass,
 [/font][font=Courier New]Material                    inches        cm            g/cm³         g/cm² 
 [/font][font=Courier New]lead                        0.4           1.0           11.3          12
 [/font][font=Courier New]concrete                    2.4           6.1           3.33          20
 [/font][font=Courier New]steel                       0.99          2.5           7.86          20
 [/font][font=Courier New]packed soil                 3.6           9.1           1.99          18
 [/font][font=Courier New]water                       7.2           18            1.00          18
 [/font][font=Courier New]lumber or other wood        11            29            0.56          16
 [/font][font=Courier New]depleted uranium            0.08          0.2           19.1          3.9
 [/font][font=Courier New]air                         6000          15000         0.0012        18[/font]

Column Halving Mass in the chart above indicates mass of material, required to cut radiation by 50%, in grams per square centimeter of protected area.

The effectiveness of a shielding material in general increases with its density.

 

Remember, some common construction materials are not solid: wood/metal frame construction, cinder block (unless filled), and a few others. Unfilled cinder block only provides 1 thickness, when filled it provides more (dirt: 3; concrete: 4). The math is fairly simple even when you have multiple mediums, just figure out how many thicknesses of each medium and then add together. Take the cinder block, it's about 8in thick, but only about 2in of that is concrete, the rest is air unless you fill it; you have about 6in of space to fill (that's around 2 thicknesses for dirt, 1 for water, 3 for concrete). add your fill to your cinder block and ready to go

 

So, all you need to know is: How much shielding is between the target and the emission, how thick the shielding is, and what it's made of.

 

If it's a continuing effect (radioactive waste barrels), the effect should be a RADS/segment. In this case, halving the effect means that you can stay in the area twice as long before getting the unhalved RADs.

[NanoEther]

Re: Fallout Hero (6E)

 

Switching tracks a little, moving over to world-building (or destroying)

 

Any ways, kicking around some of the issues with the vaults, namely, how many are there?

 

Common statements about the number are listed as to how many times I have seen them:

1) there are 122 vault experiments

2) there are 122 vaults

3) the US commissioned 122 vaults to be built

 

I tend to believe the first one, since 122 vaults spread between 13 commonwealths of more-or-less equal size would mean that each commonwealth would have 9 vaults and there would be 5 left over, that's around 3 per state, that's 3000 people 'protected'. The upper limit seems to be that it would take 400,000 vaults to 'protect' the entire population, there ar

 

Here's a little more to throw on the fire. These are the Vaults that I know where they are, they've been placed in their commonwealths:

North West (5)

Vault 6;Mt. St Helens, WA

Vault 8 ;North CA

Vault 13 ;North CA Vault 15 ;North CA

Unfinished vault

South West (1)

Vault 21;Las Vegas, NV

four States (1)

Vault 29 ;Colorado

Texas (3)

Vault 12 ;Bakersfield

Vault 39;Abilene, TX

Vault 70 ;Salt Lake City, UT

Columbia (9)

(some of these are actually in Virginia, others are in Maryland)

Vault 74;Washington, DC

Vault 76;Washington, DC

Vault 77;Washington, DC

Vault 87;Washington, DC

Vault 97;Washington, DC

Vault 101;Washington, DC

Vault 106 ;Washington, DC

Vault 108;Washington, DC

Vault 112;Washington, DC

 

 

The Los Angeles Vaults are not mentioned as most were 'non-production' vaults, these would otherwise add to the South West Commonwealth.

 

 

The Columbia Commonwealth is the most telling, 9 vaults are clustered around DC, leaving none for the rest of the commonwealth, and with 2 other major cities to draw test subjects from, this is unreasonable.

 

 

Back to the original question. the second option allows for no flexibility, so I chose to reject it. The other two can work, since there is a loophole in the third statement. The US commissioned 122, but individual commonwealths may have commissioned additional vaults, and some communities or organizations may have as well. I'm going with a rough triple the US numbers at this point. Of course, as they said in contact, why build one when you can build two? There could be a number of vaults built by overcharging the various commissioning groups, I'd say enough to quadruple the number of vaults to 488, I'm making it a nice round 500 (that's 38 per commonwealth, around 10 to 13 per state).

 

 

 

The upper limit seems to be that it would take 400,000 vaults to 'protect' the entire population, there are very few vaults so I think the true upper limit is lower then 0.5% of the needed number, or 2000 vaults is the upper limit (this gives you an upper limit of 150 vaults per commonwealth, which is around 40 to 50 per state)

 

 

 

So, what numbers are used?

well, even if you use 122 as a hard number, you are not limited to numbers below 122. A good psychological trick to convince the populace that there are many more vaults being constructed, is to number them higher. Besides, there were 122 commissioned out of a list of how many? If they keep their original number from the proposal, there's no reason for a vault to not have a higher number.

 

 

Any other thoughts?

[Fedifensor]

Re: Fallout Hero (6E)

 

You may want to take a look at this thread. In particular, Zac has done a lot of work with his Vault HERO game on Hero Central.

[Harrkonen]

Re: Fallout Hero (6E)

 

I've actually been running a fallout hero campaign (Though mine is in 5th still) for some time now. And while the players have done pretty well about avoiding rads in the first place, I've been using the standard hero rules for radiation sickness. They work fairly well considering low end radiation doesn't do much and is what the players would typically encounter.

 

For other situations however the regular formula has worked fine, and keep in mind that in fallout radiation is while a fairly common hazard is not nearly the most dangerous thing in the setting (We do have Radaway for such an occasion anyway.)

 

Quick other note

Google search "The Vault Wiki" and you should find a HUGE stash of Fallout information that covers pretty much every single game, even the short lived D20 game and the games that weren't ever released (Vanburen and Project V13)

[NanoEther]

Re: Fallout Hero (6E)

 

I've been using the Vault wiki extensively. One of my issues is that I'm doing an uncovered region, so I have to detail a region from scratch. That means, determining where bombs were dropped, what settlements sprang up, what factions exist, etc.

 

To that end, I've been building tables to help with random placement, and have been converting some to Inspiration Pad (Free at: NBOS), I'm trying to upload my bomb drop generator now, it's basically a scatter chart that generates the number of warheads dropped on a location based on it's target value. It generates the actual number dropped & what happened to each bomb (where did it go, and did it detonate).

 

I'm working on an encounter matrix right now, to be followed by an item generator.

[NanoEther]

Re: Fallout Hero (6E)

 

I've checked out all of the PA & Fallout threads on the boards, most never really got far or didn't cover converting the system.

 

My major resources are:

Mudpyr8's Legendsmith page: http://sites.google.com/a/legendsmiths.com/legendsmiths/adventures/fallout

 

And the aforementioned Vault wiki: http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Fallout_Wiki

 

I've also searched other wiki's for period information, found out that malls and strip malls started in that era, so they'd still be around, and other goodies.

[Ian Mackinder]

Re: Fallout Hero (6E)

 

So, what numbers are used?

well, even if you use 122 as a hard number, you are not limited to numbers below 122. A good psychological trick to convince the populace that there are many more vaults being constructed, is to number them higher. Besides, there were 122 commissioned out of a list of how many? If they keep their original number from the proposal, there's no reason for a vault to not have a higher number.

 

 

Any other thoughts?

 

My thought is that at least some Vaults were utlized for ... experimentation rather than saving lives - ie. secretly put the occupants through really weird (and potentially dangerous) stuff, and collate the results. There was that whole thing with Vault 77 as just one example ( http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Vault_77 ).

[Ian Mackinder]

Re: Fallout Hero (6E)

 

Turned up this particular bit from the Fallout wiki (specificially within http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Vault ), which seems very relevant:

 

"...Officially, the Vaults were nuclear shelters designed to protect the American population from nuclear holocaust. However, with a population of almost 400 million by 2077, the U.S. would need nearly 400,000 Vaults the size of Vault 13, while Vault-Tec was commissioned to build only 122 such Vaults. The real reason for the existence of these Vaults was to study pre-selected segments of the population to see how they react to the stresses of isolation and how successfully they recolonize Earth after the Vault opens.

 

The shadow government, the Enclave, responsible for the experiment (officially known as the "Societal Preservation Program"), have considered themselves prime candidates for recolonizing the world after a nuclear holocaust and to this end commissioned the construction of their own shelters, isolated from the Vault network. The purpose of the Vault experiments was to help prepare the Enclave for either re-colonizing Earth or colonizing another planet if Earth turned out to be uninhabitable by non-irradiated humans.

 

The total number of vaults is a government secret and has been lost; there were the aforementioned "public" vaults, which numbered 122 and an undisclosed number of "private" vaults. Information on whether Vault-Tec was an international corporation and were there vaults made by them in other parts of the world, or were they strictly U.S. based, cannot be released due to Vault-Tec and US Government regulations[3]

 

Of the 122 Vaults, only 17 were control, meaning that only 17 were made to public expectations, all others were designed to include a social experiment, sometimes with a select few of the inhabitants observing the occupants.

 

The few Vaults that survived intact for more than 80 years came to serve another, unanticipated purpose: they were an excellent source of pure human stock, uncontaminated by the mutated airborne strain of FEV and prime candidates for conversion into super mutants...."

[NanoEther]

Re: Fallout Hero (6E)

 

Which still supports the 'more then 122 vaults' idea.

Only 17 of the 122 (commissioned) vaults were control vaults,

There's no record of how many VaulTec actually built

some other contracts: private, communal (look up intentional communities), state/commonwealth

then there's always re-appropriation of funds, in other words: why just build two when I can build three?

 

Of course, with a nuclear strike comes all out martial law, and all those private vaults become government vaults, so the government may have helped vaulTec with incentives to build other vaults, maybe not officially, but out of secret funding. Which means that there is no vault safe from the potential of social experimentation.

 

All vaults, private and federal, were designed and built as part of a series of social experiments. This should be considered a fact, of course this also means that there are more then 17 control vaults total.

 

Of concern to some people is: what if a vault number I choose is used later in a game? Don't worry about it, VaulTec may have had another way to track the vaults and reusing numbers could have been a way to hide the number of vaults from congress/senate or any other organization. Of course, if you just use numbers higher then 122, you shouldn't have to worry about duplicating.

 

OK, so designing a vault

What's the minimum population one should start with? 20 families where the youngest children are at least three generations removed, that means, you have to go to their grand-parents grand-parents to find a common ancestor:

(parent 0 --> grand-parent 1 --> great-grand-parent 2 --> great-great-grand-parent 3)

if the families are unrelated, this gives a vault population of a little over 100 (mother, father, 3+ children), extended families can easily bump the number to over 300. Pregnancies would be heavily discouraged during the first 10 years and slowly reducing in restriction during the 2nd 10, to light restrictions during the end.

Of course, in an experiment, once it concludes, the subjects are a liability, so heavy restrictions would prevail throughout the time in the vault.

 

Facilities required: power generation, food service, life-support (includes water and air recycling), quarters, entry

Optional facilities: recreation, hydroponics (though it satisfies some of needs of food, air, and water recycling)

 

Aside from the ones already done, anyone have an idea for vault experiments?

Classic Maze: The vault is laid out as a maze with dead-ends (maybe literally), so it takes at least 10 minutes to get to anywhere. The experiment vault should keep the halls cold and poorly lit to keep people from just living in the halls, a control vault built on this plan should keep the halls at a normal level.

 

Ethnicity: the vault is seperated into multiple, self-sufficient sections (all vaults should do this), but each section holds families from different social/cultural backgrounds. To make it more interesting, maybe each section contains all rooms of a type. i.e., on section has all of the food service, another has all the power generation, another the hydroponics, another the recreation, another has life-support, etc. (This vaults layout should also be done as a control vault).

 

Earthquake: the vault rooms are mounted on actuators that cause the vault to shake at random intervals

 

Inferno: Vault is prone to fires

 

Hot Box: The vault is always hot, maybe even humid (great for fungus growth)

 

Chill Chest: The vault is always cold

 

Dutch Oven: The vault emits offensive odors from the ventilation system

 

Logan's Run: This vault should be a long-run vault and start with at least 500 inhabitants and no pregnancy restrictions. When someone turns a certain age (30 in the movie, 21 in the book), they are required to attend a ceremony where they are killed. If the vault starts with children, it could be treated as a cult, where the adults (vault employees) raise them and 'attend' the ceremony. The subjects may be killed or just moved to another, linked vault, or just kicked outside. If 30 is used, it could be seen as a duty to allow the continued survival of humanity. Another alternative is as a population limit, for each birth, the oldest must die. Little Lamplight is a variation on this premise.

[Ian Mackinder]

Re: Fallout Hero (6E)

 

Aside from the ones already done' date=' anyone have an idea for vault experiments?[/quote']

 

Going by the Fallout-verse so far, I think that almost anything mean-spirited / sadistic / evil / downright psychotic that could have begun with "I wonder what would happen if ..." is applicable. I dunno who in Vault-Tec or the Enclave OK'd most of these so-called 'social experiments', but they were sicko rat-b#####ds for sure.

 

A few ideas ...

 

Black-Out: The vault might SEEM to have normal lighting, but all lighting fixtures (and replacements thereof) are designed to become inoperative within a very short time. Occupants will have to cope with whatever crude light sources they can improvise (given Vault-Tec's usual approach, probably not much to work with) , and total darkness the rest of the time.

 

Echo Chamber: ANYTHING in the Vault designed to make noise - alarm clocks, the PA system, the intercoms, the radios, the occupants' Pip-Boys, the Juke Boxes, etc., etc.. - are all set way too loud and cannot be adjusted. Also, the acoustics of this Vault have been tweaked to enhance the whole audio experience - everybody can hear everybody / everything else. Loudly. Wherever they are in that Vault. All the time.

 

Second Amendment - IN SPADES: This Vault has a positively ridiculous quantity of fully functional firearms and ammo. Everywhere - piled up in corridors, placed in airducts, at the back or bottom of just about every storage space in the complex, wherever. A few minutes search just about anywhere will provide one with enough firepower to start their own government. Unfortunately, this excess does not extend to food and other essential supplies - the vault is critically undersupplied in that regard..

 

?????: This Vault only has one standard apartment, randomly allocated to whomever entered first, and no Overseer. Everybody else will be living / sleeping .... wherever they can find a space.

 

!!!!!: Only a ridiculously small proportion of the toilets and other waste disposal units in this Vault actually function. In order to avoid epidemics or drowning in their own wastes, the occupants will have to make ... special arrangements.

 

Some duplication / repetition (possibly with minor variations) seems plausible. Also plausible are combinations of various experiments - eg. one Vault with the Black-Out, another with the Black-out AND a living space shortage, another with a living space shortage and the Echo Chamber, and so on.