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My character building technique (How to build Hero System Characters)


Tasha

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Re: My character building technique (How to build Hero System Characters)

 

One adjustment I usually make in calculations is to slightly reduce the effect of SPD when calculating offense/turn. For instance, I might do Offense Factor = (SPD+1) * Hit% * (Dmg - DEF), which reduces (slightly) the ratio between higher and lower SPD. Maybe even (SPD+2).

 

The reason is because while having a higher SPD certainly does increase effectiveness per turn, the amount of offense you can muster on that first Phase 12 is also important. Before one turn has even gone by, some characters/foes may be out of the fight, or forced to retreat. So for example, I think a SPD 4 character who deals 30 STUN past defense is a bit better off (offense-wise) than a SPD 8 character that deals 15 (assuming the same Hit%). More chance to stun foes, more likely to take someone out in the first phase.

 

Of course, SPD is also useful defensively and for mobility, but I'm just talking offense here.

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Re: My character building technique (How to build Hero System Characters)

 

Attached please find the .zip file. This spreadsheet was a quick and dirty attempt to cover the basic formula I threw up. Nothing too crazy.

 

Good topic.

Nicely done. :)

 

One adjustment I usually make in calculations is to slightly reduce the effect of SPD when calculating offense/turn. For instance, I might do Offense Factor = (SPD+1) * Hit% * (Dmg - DEF), which reduces (slightly) the ratio between higher and lower SPD. Maybe even (SPD+2).

 

The reason is because while having a higher SPD certainly does increase effectiveness per turn, the amount of offense you can muster on that first Phase 12 is also important. Before one turn has even gone by, some characters/foes may be out of the fight, or forced to retreat. So for example, I think a SPD 4 character who deals 30 STUN past defense is a bit better off (offense-wise) than a SPD 8 character that deals 15 (assuming the same Hit%). More chance to stun foes, more likely to take someone out in the first phase.

 

Of course, SPD is also useful defensively and for mobility, but I'm just talking offense here.

 

Good point. The spreadsheet above also shows expected damage delivered (and received) per hit - looking at that output gives a view of Segment 12 (sometimes the combat-deciding Phase). The greater the SPD range of characters (especially greater than 2 pts or so), the more both damage per hit and damage per Turn need to be taken into account.

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  • 3 months later...

Re: My character building technique (How to build Hero System Characters)

 

I tweaked the spreadsheet to address the point made above about Segment 12. In the Expected Damage box, it has a w/12 column that adds one extra phase to the speed.

 

If we you want to make the math more complicated, you can add an analysis of how long can the character last in a fight. This would bring in Stun and Recovery as well.

 

Also, note that the DCV and OCV should be reflective of the modifiers that the character would normally face (i.e. ranged combatant should reflect range penalties and levels for their OCV, but add the range penalties to their DCV (because they will be shot at at range)). It gets overly complicated very quickly, but seems to make sense as an approach.

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Re: My character building technique (How to build Hero System Characters)

 

IF (and that's a big IF) the GM is A. willing to provide the above information (beyond point levels - that's always given) and B. not planning a bait-and-switch campaign.

 

My solution to that is simple. Once the "switch" part happens I stop playing. I don't generally have much interest in gaming with people who I cannot trust. Nor for that matter with people who trust so little in my ability to separate my knowledge from my character's knowledge that they don't feel like they trust me enough to tell me what the game is about.

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Re: My character building technique (How to build Hero System Characters)

 

My solution to that is simple. Once the "switch" part happens I stop playing. I don't generally have much interest in gaming with people who I cannot trust. Nor for that matter with people who trust so little in my ability to separate my knowledge from my character's knowledge that they don't feel like they trust me enough to tell me what the game is about.

 

Agreed. I find that this kind of GM behavior usually comes from a GM who is a frustrated writer and wants a captive audience for the story they want to tell.

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Re: My character building technique (How to build Hero System Characters)

 

I have run "fish out of water" campaigns, but I always let the players know what the campaign is going to be like. ie I ran a Champions game were the only Heroes available where ones who had been in Suspended Animation since the 30's. So I asked them to make up superheroes that would fit in a Silver age 30's superhero game. They knew that the characters were going to be adventuring in the modern era though.

 

GM's who lie to players about the game are just idiots. How can they expect anyone to have fun in the game?

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Re: My character building technique (How to build Hero System Characters)

 

All sounds like sound advice, especially the 'build towards campaign standards' bit... I always find myself tacking on CSL, OSL, 'lightning reflexes', and the like to support my character's schtick and find that I have way overshot or undershot my goals.

 

Three things I'd add for my personal process, would be

A) Put things down as they come up... if you are inspired to tack on a skill, perk, complication, or whatever as the character starts taking shape then throw it on the paper. Don't 'wait until I do my skills' or whatever, I find that characters build holistically this way come out more whole-feeling to me.

 

B) Once you finish, put it down... think about the character a bit overnight, then re-write the whole thing the next day. Should go quick, copy-paste those powers that still work for you... but a night stepping away from the process then a rewrite from scratch usually seems to smooth out the wrinkles.

 

C) If the campaign is expected to last long enough, build room for improvement. A one-shot character needs to be 'finished', but someone expecting to see a few games can skimp out on some CSLs, STUN, END, or something... the kind of things that I'd imagine real-life adventuring would quickly press improvements on for novices. The ability to build-for-improvement is one of the great benefits of a point-based system to me. Also, this might help on some complications... plan on that 'dark secret' turning into a negative reputation someday, and build around that growth.

 

YMMV of course on these techniques, but they've always helped me.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Re: My character building technique (How to build Hero System Characters)

 

Only just notice this thread, but...

 

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Tasha again.

 

Excellent guide Tasha - very useful, and the first steps are also good for newbie players, for whom the GM really has to do most of the mechanical elements of character design.

 

It's also an interesting guide to the info a GM should be providing more experienced players.

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Re: My character building technique (How to build Hero System Characters)

 

My solution to that is simple. Once the "switch" part happens I stop playing. I don't generally have much interest in gaming with people who I cannot trust. Nor for that matter with people who trust so little in my ability to separate my knowledge from my character's knowledge that they don't feel like they trust me enough to tell me what the game is about.

 

I have played with GMs who haven't considered the kind of campaign they are going to run and/or can't articulate what their expectations are. If you have gamed with the GM, you may be able to get a clue from the kind of player they are.

 

For instance, the unrepentant butt-kicker type player is unlikely to run a campaign where intrigue is important, where there are multiple levels of story arc, or where knowledge, investigatory, or negotiation skills matter.

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Re: My character building technique (How to build Hero System Characters)

 

I have played with GMs who haven't considered the kind of campaign they are going to run and/or can't articulate what their expectations are. If you have gamed with the GM, you may be able to get a clue from the kind of player they are.

 

For instance, the unrepentant butt-kicker type player is unlikely to run a campaign where intrigue is important, where there are multiple levels of story arc, or where knowledge, investigatory, or negotiation skills matter.

 

I'm less concerned with someone who doesn't do a very good job of explaining what the campaign is going to be like than I am with someone who purposefully lies about what the campaign will be.

 

What annoys me is the people who present a well planned campaign setting, and then part of the way through one of the first play sessions spring a catastrophic change of some kind. A change in how the reality works, one way time travel, one way dimension shift, etc. Generally something that will make all of our characters no longer useful, but certainly makes the campaign no longer resemble in any way what we as players were told to expect.

 

I'm a great role player. I've been doing it a long time. I am perfectly capable of keeping player knowledge and character knowledge separate. I don't at all mind playing in a game designed to start as one type of campaign and then suddenly transform into something else. But I as the player want to know this from the beginning. I don't want to be lied to because the Ref will enjoy things more if he gets to spring that kind of change on us.

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Re: My character building technique (How to build Hero System Characters)

 

GM's who lie to players about the game are just idiots. How can they expect anyone to have fun in the game?

 

It can also depend on how severe the switch is and how it is implemented.

e.g. a Wild Cards-esque setting where all superhumans derive from a common origin, but the players gradually discover over the course of the campaign that the supernatural secretly exists too.

 

Holy #$%&*!! Was that guy a vampire?

Don't be ridiculous. He was just an insane superhuman...wasn't he?

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Re: My character building technique (How to build Hero System Characters)

 

I have no problems with Campaign secrets. I do have a problem with campaigns that are supposed to be Political intrigue and require characters with minimal Combat skills becoming High combat games, or City based adventures that spend all campaign in the forest and never touch a city. The first is part of good story telling, the last two are bait and switch campaigns.

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Re: My character building technique (How to build Hero System Characters)

 

I've known players who would have complained in the situation I described. By deceiving them from about the existence of magic, I unfairly restricted their character options, preventing them from creating a wizard, faerie, half-demon, magic sword wielder, etc.

But then, I've known players who feel that a GM shouldn't create plotlines in advance; Everything that happens in a campaign should be a reaction to what the players do and any prearranged story is railroading. :P

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Re: My character building technique (How to build Hero System Characters)

 

I've known players who would have complained in the situation I described. By deceiving them from about the existence of magic, I unfairly restricted their character options, preventing them from creating a wizard, faerie, half-demon, magic sword wielder, etc.

 

Yup, it is equally possible to have bad/unreasonable players. :) As a player I never assume that the options available to me are all of the options available in the entire universe. If I'm playing in a campaign that centers on a crack military unit, I realize that while I'm restricted to playing a military character that there are in fact non-military people in the world. Same with any other kind of campaign. The guidelines the Ref hands out as to what kind of character you can play aren't necessarily restrictions as to what can exist in the universe, but are frequently at least in part a measure of what kind of campaign they want to run.

 

Not being allowed to build a wizard character doesn't necessarily mean that magic doesn't exist in the world. It just means that the PC's don't get to have it, at least to start with. But there is a big difference between the players finding out that the world is different than they thought it was (magic really does work, the Illuminati really does exist, whatever) and being told to create characters in a world where for instance there is magic, and then being transported to an alternate reality where magic doesn't work for the rest of the campaign.

 

But then' date=' I've known players who feel that a GM shouldn't create plotlines in advance; Everything that happens in a campaign should be a reaction to what the players do and any prearranged story is railroading. :P[/quote']

 

When I Ref, I make sure I have a good idea as to what is going on in the world. I'll generally have a number of potential plots going on, whether the players choose to interact with them or not. Then I'll leave plot hooks laying about. If the players jump one (or more) of them, we'll explore it/them together. If not, things will go in a different direction, and I'll come up with more plot hooks. Or the players will end up generating their own. Though they might get pulled back into one or more of the plots that they skipped/didn't notice initially later, as those things will still advance whether the players are directly involved or not. :)

 

I don't generally have storylines that I want the players to follow. I have events happening, which tend to be the things that they players are interested in doing.

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  • 6 months later...

Re: My character building technique (How to build Hero System Characters)

 

This guide was really helpful. Especially when used with the Charachter ability guidelines table on pg. 35 6e1.

 

Kudos to Tasha.

 

Thanks :D It's defiantly written to be used with that table. Though to be honest, I like to see tighter character gen guidelines.

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Re: My character building technique (How to build Hero System Characters)

 

IF (and that's a big IF) the GM is A. willing to provide the above information (beyond point levels - that's always given) and B. not planning a bait-and-switch campaign.

 

 

What counts as a "bait and switch" campaign in this case? There are different examples. Speaking for myself, I tend to run things as reactionary. I actually don't know the answers to some of those questions until I get the characters and see what the players seem to want (and some discussion takes place) and that might change depending on what the players do. I may intend for there to be little combat but if the players inadvertently and deliberately get into allot of fights that's what happens. If the figure out ways to talk or trick their way through obstacles, then there will be less combat.

 

 

As a player, I generally enjoy surprises and when the campaign goes somewhere unexpected; not everyone does though. I prefer for any switches and twists to be set up well, foreshadowed even and not to make the characters useless (though they might be off balance for awhile). As a GM yes, there are some things I don't tell my players about the game and my plans. And yes, its because I like seeing how they react to genuinely unexpected twist or surprise. I've seen people "playing dumb" and it often doesn't really come off role playing or mechanically. I do take the PCs nature into account, don't make them useless and don't make absolute promises that I intend to break like "There will be absolutely NO MAGIC in this game." rather "As far as you know Magic doesn't exist." I suppose that makes me a bad GM in some people's eyes, but different strokes. So far, everyone including myself have had fun in my games.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Re: My character building technique (How to build Hero System Characters)

 

"IF (and that's a big IF) the GM is A. willing to provide the above information (beyond point levels - that's always given)"

 

I always provide my players with "campaign norms" for DEX, SPD, PD/ED, DCs, & CV. That's always given in a range, like "DEX 24-30, SPD 4-6,..." I then tell the players that their characters must fall within the range for campaign norms. I give them the option for their character to exceed campaign norms in ONE AREA, but if he does then he must fall BELOW campaign norms in TWO other areas.

 

I then give them my word as GM that they can expect ALL NPCs will fall within campaign norms EXCEPT master villians/giant monsters.

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Re: My character building technique (How to build Hero System Characters)

 

Fantastic thread, and very helpful for a GM coming back to Champions. The point about writing out what the power does before sitting down to "system" it is perfect, and one I'm going to impress upon my players. Heck, I'll probably just point them at this thread.

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