Lord Liaden Posted October 1, 2003 Report Share Posted October 1, 2003 Say folks, I could use a little creative input if you'd be so kind: As part of working the Crowns of Krim into my campaign, I'm trying to develop interesting stories for the creation of each of the Crowns - not the characters, but the artifacts themselves. I want them to be fashioned by followers of Krim under his direction, out of rare materials or under extraordinary circumstances. For example, the Shining Crown was fashioned from gold flowing molten from an active volcano; the Stone Crown was carved out of the roots of the highest mountain in the world; the Blood Crown is copper mined from beneath a great battlefield; while the Iron Crown was once a link from a chain forged by the gods to restrain Krim himself. I'm rather stumped regarding the Shadow and Golden Crowns, though. I thought that the Shadow Crown might be made of obsidian, or possibly black mother-of-pearl, but I'm drawing a blank on an appropriate way to tie that into the qualities and powers of shadow and darkness. I have no idea about the Golden Crown, though. I'd appreciate any thoughts you'd care to offer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddHat Posted October 1, 2003 Report Share Posted October 1, 2003 Shadow Crown: There are salt mines in Poland that contain entire cathedrals, and living space for the miners. WIth that thought; The Iron mines of lost Lemuria were manned by slaves, men women and children torn from their families and sent into darkness to dig, to starve, to suffer and to die. But not quickly. Some slaves spent twenty years or more in the mines, kept alive by their masters but never seeing sunlight, never feeling the rain on their faces, never knowing hope. From Iron soaked in thier tears was the Crown of Shadow forged... Gold Crown... The raiders poured down upon the monestary; the monks were peaceful men, creators of art and makers of wine. They did not fight. Their labors had swollen their coffers with cold donated by the pius, gold that had in many cases been sre-cast into objects pleasing to the eye and spirit and sanctified...sacred golden objects that now made their blood soaked way back to the forges of Krim, to serve a different God. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winterhawk Posted October 1, 2003 Report Share Posted October 1, 2003 Have to go with Oddhat on the Shadow Crown... If it's not too far off your timeline, and based on Oddhat's submission, how about the Golden Crown is made from the gold acquired from the sale of Indulgences, as per Catholic Church doctrine, raided from a monestary as per Oddhat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
altamaros Posted October 1, 2003 Report Share Posted October 1, 2003 Gold crown : it made me think of the death of the roman Crassus : "And the Parthians, as some say, poured molten gold into his mouth in mockery; for though a man of vast wealth, he had set so great store by money as to pity those who could not support an enrolled legion from their own means, regarding them as poor men" (XL.27)." (Plutarch) Actually, the parthians unknowingly reproduced the old unholy ritual used for the creation of the gold crown. The gold crown has been forged with gold poured in the mouth of seven vanquished kings (and remolten each time of course). (why seven; it's mystical; that's why) edit : i also found this was a way for some indians to execute spagniards during the 1590's in Latin America. edit 2: i remember somehow there's a hell where the avaricious and greedy have molten gold poured in their mouth; i thought it was Dante's Inferno but i cannot find the reference. Otherwise : Aside the six official crowns (iron, gold, blood, stone, shadow, snake) anyone has ideas for new crowns ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddHat Posted October 1, 2003 Report Share Posted October 1, 2003 Originally posted by altamaros Otherwise : Aside the six official crowns (iron, gold, blood, stone, shadow, snake) anyone has ideas for new crowns ? A character I'm playing has The Emerald Crown as part of his backstory. It's a tribute to the original Green Lantern and Doctor Fate. Too tired to write the whole thing up now, but the essentials; The Emerald Crown was looted by an American GI from a cache of artifacts in North Africa in late 1942; he had no idea what he had stollen. Wearing the Crown, he became Doctor Emerald, fighting on the side of the Allies throughout WWII and continuing to serve in Korea and Vietnam. The GI who became Doctor Emerald was at first only subtly corrupted by the crown; the GI himself was strong willed and the not-yet fully awakened Crown didn't care how its power was used. The GI fathered at least two children during those years. As the influence of the crown grew Doctor Emerald became increasingly distant and brutal; the personality of the crown began to overlay entirely that of the man. Fearing that the Crown was about to awaken, agents of the Trismegistus Council assassinated Doctor Emerald in 1972. The Crown is now in their hands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Rose Posted October 1, 2003 Report Share Posted October 1, 2003 Re: Crowns of Krim origin suggestion please Originally posted by Lord Liaden I'm rather stumped regarding the Shadow and Golden Crowns, though. I thought that the Shadow Crown might be made of obsidian, or possibly black mother-of-pearl, but I'm drawing a blank on an appropriate way to tie that into the qualities and powers of shadow and darkness. On a purely prosaic note, obsidian is a form of volcanic glass, yet (almost) no light actually passes through it, which makes it perfect, IMO, for a Shadow Crown. I've always liked that quality in it for my more Fantasy-based games; forget jet, onyx, and black pearls, the stone for Shadow-wizards is obsidian even moreso for necromancers, though that is more tradition and the useful-for-anatomy-lessons edge it carries. Besides, though the current user is somewhat... coarse... I prefer to think of the Shadow Crown in it's heyday, when its bearer was a man of far more refined cruelties, leading a (pardon the obvious) shadowy army of assassins, spies, and death-bringers for the greater glory of mighty Krim. Were it not for the fact that the boojums on the Turakian Age seem to be so different from our own history, I'd say the greatest bearer was an assassin who mastered the magics of necromancy and darkness under his new Master in order to lead armies of undead. Think how nasty a Roman legion, or even a Gaulish horde, of vampires would be, if their leader could see to it the sun never came up. Hell, imagine how quickly you could shatter the Egyptian army if you could call forth Apop to devour Ra. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadeFox Posted October 1, 2003 Report Share Posted October 1, 2003 Something we have in our game, loosely rendered, since I'm not the GM, but we all worked on the backstory together. Takofenes once ruled all the world. In a time after the fall of the eldritch (read cthuloid) gods and the rise of modern history, likely only the libraries of Alexendria and Atlantis held records of his reign. Tak had an enire world to rule, a lot of work for a mighty necro such as himself, with so many better things to do. So he set about a means to construct devices to aid him. The crowns were born, each was given to one of his most trusted servants to become governors of different areas of the globe. Iron: Ruled the lands of Europa and mediterranean lands Gold: Ruled the lands of africa Blood: ruled the lands of central america and southern US area Stone: ruled rest of north america Shadow: ruled asiatic area Snake: ruled in south america Hoar: Ruled the lands of russia and scandanavia, our 'extra 'ice' crown'. The crowns granted their bearers god like powers to control the masses, but they also were tied to Tak's own crown, making them incapable of subverting his will, or escaping his wrath. They mave have been gods, but they were slave gods. After the fall of Tak, the governors scattered, the crowns were lost in their regions, but many of them were found and returned to service from time to time throughout each areas history. Only with the final dimming of magic, did the world see the last use of the crowns for several centuries, until now.... We have not delved into actual construction lore, but we did have the crowns show up in various legends and lore fromt he places where they ruled. Our Odin wore a crown of ice, Quatzecoatl wore a crown of serpentine metal, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Posted October 1, 2003 Report Share Posted October 1, 2003 I can see a Bone Crown. In ancient times, priests of Krim searched the land to find the patriarch of the largest, happiest living family. They were all taken and imprisoned. One by one, they were tortured and killed in the presence of the loving patriarch, and their corpses were brought back in undeath to sing to him night and day of what they were and his utter failure to save them. In the end, all that was left was a horde of cackling undead and one tormented old man. The final tortures for him were almost an afterthought, but they still made it last months. When he was finally dead, his spirit was bound to his skull to bear witness to centuries of atrocities. The Bone Crown was crafted from that skull. Most likely, it would be capable of summoning and commanding the undead - Takofanes most certainly excepted - and maybe manipulating living bone as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted October 1, 2003 Author Report Share Posted October 1, 2003 Thanks for the suggestions so far, gang, keep 'em coming. I think I should clarify that while the suggestions by OddHat and altamaros are poetically rich and very appropriate for the creation of an unholy artifact, they don't really relate to the "arcanokinetic" powers of the Golden Crown. I'd prefer that the Crowns have some connection to the quality of the forces they command, as well as to sin, corruption and Krim. OddHat's origin for the Shadow Crown out of darkness and torment does have possibilities, though. Originally posted by Black Rose On a purely prosaic note, obsidian is a form of volcanic glass, yet (almost) no light actually passes through it, which makes it perfect, IMO, for a Shadow Crown. I've always liked that quality in it for my more Fantasy-based games; forget jet, onyx, and black pearls, the stone for Shadow-wizards is obsidian even moreso for necromancers, though that is more tradition and the useful-for-anatomy-lessons edge it carries. That's very convincingly described, Black Rose. I'm pondering combining those qualities with the mine scenario described by Oddhat. As for additional Crowns, how about one carved from petrified wood, from a forest killed by plague from the "breath of Krim?" Able to cause plants to grow and animate (Entangle and Telekinesis), raise a swirl of leaves and grass to obscure sight (Darkness or Change Environment), hurl a shower of branches, twigs or thorns (autofire RKA), and destroy plants or anything made from plant material (Limited Killing Attack). My suggestions for a name would be "Blighted Crown" or "Forest Crown." Thanks again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Posted October 1, 2003 Report Share Posted October 1, 2003 Originally posted by Lord Liaden Thanks for the suggestions so far, gang, keep 'em coming. I think I should clarify that while the suggestions by OddHat and altamaros are poetically rich and very appropriate for the creation of an unholy artifact, they don't really relate to the "arcanokinetic" powers of the Golden Crown. I'd prefer that the Crowns have some connection to the quality of the forces they command, as well as to sin, corruption and Krim. OddHat's origin for the Shadow Crown out of darkness and torment does have possibilities, though. It's hard to come up with an origin story with a very close connection to plain magic force. Maybe the thing to do is to embrace the symbolic connections. Gold is the symbol of wealth, and wealth is the form of power most familiar throughout human history. It can move things without the crass need for direct physical contact, much less sweaty labor, remaining pristine in its beauty and remoteness. That sort of context might make altamaros' origin proposal more suitable - the Golden Crown is created from the corrupt power of wealth itself in a forge of pain and death. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddHat Posted October 1, 2003 Report Share Posted October 1, 2003 Originally posted by Lord Liaden That's very convincingly described, Black Rose. I'm pondering combining those qualities with the mine scenario described by Oddhat. http://godot.unisa.edu.au/wac/paper.php?paper=926 A google search shows that obsidian deposits were mined, and that the mines could get quite deep in the palaeolithic period before people switched over to bronze. Create a freakishly deep obsidian mine (say three times as the mine described in the link above, or just a bit shallower than the salt mines of Poland) in the heart of Lemuria and you have your origin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winterhawk Posted October 1, 2003 Report Share Posted October 1, 2003 Originally posted by Jeff It's hard to come up with an origin story with a very close connection to plain magic force. Maybe the thing to do is to embrace the symbolic connections. Gold is the symbol of wealth, and wealth is the form of power most familiar throughout human history. From the song "The Big Money" by Rush: Sometimes building ivory towers Sometimes knocking castles down... Big money got a heavy hand Big money take control Big money got a mean streak Big money got no soul... Jeff's suggestion made me think of the above song. It's a cool idea. In rereading Force's write-up, I realized that he is, quote, 'the least demonic' of all the Crown wielders. Perhaps The Golden Crown is not completely evil, but like money, depends on how it is used. As far as an origin, how about a cool fantasy-riffed 'cast from the plunder of a 1000 fallen kingdoms'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hermit Posted October 1, 2003 Report Share Posted October 1, 2003 I like the "Coral Crown" mentioned as a plot seed in the books (Stingray I believe) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted October 1, 2003 Author Report Share Posted October 1, 2003 Hmm... power of money, greed - very interesting suggestions for the Golden Crown. Certainly Force's motivation in seizing the Crown in the first place was greed, and that continues to influence his life. Still, that kind of power seems to me to be a little more subtle and indirect than Force, who's written as a fairly straightforward brawler. Well, how about this: the Golden Crown was once worn as a ring by a powerful giant who set himself up as a "robber baron," looting from his neighbors and passersby and taxing his subjects brutally, all to build up a vast hoard of treasure. He was finally slain by a party of adventurers who caused his whole treasure to pour down upon him, crushing him beneath a weight even his great strength could not support. But in the depth of his greed he couldn't bear to abandon all his wealth to pass on to the next world, so his spirit bound itself to his gold ring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted October 1, 2003 Author Report Share Posted October 1, 2003 Originally posted by Hermit I like the "Coral Crown" mentioned as a plot seed in the books (Stingray I believe) Yes, that would be a very good candidate. Might even already exist if Krim exerted an influence on Atlantis. And it would be a good excuse to give a villain the water-elemental powers wielded by Red Tide in Patrick E. Bradley's excellent Atlantis soucebook for 4E Champs. Her background was very close to that of Stingray, but was IMHO a more interesting character design. In fact, much of the 5E history of Atlantis is quite close to the 4E version; you could use that sourcebook for a CU campaign with only a few changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost who Walks Posted October 1, 2003 Report Share Posted October 1, 2003 The question you have to answer, when dealing with mystical objects...is it the object that is evil, or the wielder? I tend to think that any power is going to eventually corrupt. Gold Crown: The idea of it at some point bieng used by Central Americans springs to mind. Used by the Mayans, stolden from them by the Aztecs, and plundered by the Spaniards. Shadow Crown: At some point in its history, it needs to be used by a hero from the 1930's. His name..."The Shadow!" Obsidian was used heavily by Central Americans for weapons and tools. It would be difficult to make a crown out of it, without magic (as it is stone, not metal) Ebony might also be fun. A wooden crown...there are several medieval African kingdoms you could use, about which very little is known today. Having them spend most of their history on Pacific Islands, where their wielders were hailed as gods, might also be fun. Put Lumeria in the Pacific, and you are done. Another fun thing to do, for giving the crowns history. Pick a stage in history when monarchs waged wars across Europe. The Italian City State wars, any time in Germany, Napoleonic Wars, and World War I work well. Give each monarch involved a crown...if they can get enough people killed, their dark desires are realized. Of course, in the past, and unlikely collection of bizarre individuals banded together to stop them, and scatterd the crowns. Have players discover journal of one of the people who fought them before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Korvar Posted October 1, 2003 Report Share Posted October 1, 2003 The Gold Crown could be the melted-down remains of King Midas, whose greed eventually led him to turn himself to solid gold... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
altamaros Posted October 2, 2003 Report Share Posted October 2, 2003 Originally posted by Lord Liaden Thanks for the suggestions so far, gang, keep 'em coming. I think I should clarify that while the suggestions by OddHat and altamaros are poetically rich and very appropriate for the creation of an unholy artifact, they don't really relate to the "arcanokinetic" powers of the Golden Crown. I'd prefer that the Crowns have some connection to the quality of the forces they command, as well as to sin, corruption and Krim. OddHat's origin for the Shadow Crown out of darkness and torment does have possibilities, though. As Jeff said : there's little tradition about pure kinetic force. the concept is rather recent (the XIXth century probably). the closest i can think of for the Gold Crown would be in the european fairy tales : there's countless stories of the devil building bridges/walls/castles in one night/day. (but it's an possible USE of the crown and not an origin as you asked it) Krim actually forged the crown with the gold coins given to Charon by the damned crossing the Styx (in the middle ages, it became 30 denarii for the devil). its first bearer was an demon who loved to pass for the Devil and actually built the catles with his own telekinetic powers (the crown only enhanced them). Unfortunately he actually angered the real Old Scratch who destroys it. The crown fell on earth during the battle. the very essence of this demon (and his powers)are still inside maybe ... nobody came yet with a story for the snake crown. for the additional crowns; i like the idea of the emerald crown and the "forest crown". i was thinking myself about a "crystal crown" or "diamond crown" for ice powers and a "moon(stone) crown" for illusions/images Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Arrow Posted October 2, 2003 Report Share Posted October 2, 2003 There are some really interesting ideas here. I was not entirely happy with the choice of substances controlled by the Crowns. I'd have liked them linked to dark magic/necromancy (no gold crowns for example). The ones I thought of (well, I didn't come up with them all) were: Iron Stone Blood Bone Fire Fog Shadow Seven is a good number for mystic artifacts! My inspirations (apart from the published HERO material, of course) were the Dark Judges from Judge Dredd and the "elements" of the D&D Ravenloft setting. I could be wrong, but there might be an (official) origin story for the Crowns in one of the forthcoming Fantasy Heo books. Don't the Crowns originate in one of the Fantasy Hero ages? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom McCarthy Posted October 2, 2003 Report Share Posted October 2, 2003 My first thought on a 'magical creation' for a Shadow crown was limiting it to blind craftsmen (or the craftsmen willingly being blinded during the creation process). Gold is harder to link to force. I was thinking of ancient 'forces', and gravity or tides are obvious ones. Still, erecting a building, bridge, or tower is better. Perhaps the thrustingof tectonic plates ? But that would better fit a stone/granite/basalt crown. I also thought of gold as a great electrical conductor, but again that's off topic (and players with non-tech backgrounds would choose copper). Bone, fog, coral, thorns are all characterful crowns. 'Stars' would also be a fine theme, but I'd lean towards a white metal like silver or platinum for that crown. An ice crown carved from diamond might work, or a crown of frozen quicksilver which allowed the bearer to form any metal tool or weapon in his hands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
altamaros Posted October 2, 2003 Report Share Posted October 2, 2003 Originally posted by Crimson Arrow Seven is a good number for mystic artifacts! yup Three Crowns for the Elven-kings under the sky, Seven for the Dwarf-lords in their halls of stone, Nine for the Mortal Men doomed to die, And, for the Snake Crown : One for the Dark Lord on his dark throne (...) One Crown to rule them all, One Crown to find them, One Crown to bring them all and in the darkness bind them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted October 2, 2003 Author Report Share Posted October 2, 2003 Really cool thoughts coming here. Originally posted by Tom McCarthy My first thought on a 'magical creation' for a Shadow crown was limiting it to blind craftsmen (or the craftsmen willingly being blinded during the creation process). That is a truly dramatic image: a sympathetic magic ceremony for the darkening of sight. How about a variation on Vlad the Impaler: a tyrannical worshipper of Krim who puts out the eyes of his enemies with ceremonial obsidian knives consecrated to the demon-god, leaving them to wander in darkness. After he is overthrown other minions of Krim recover the knives and affix them as tines to a circlet of metal. (Iron? Platinum?) Originally posted by Tom McCarthy Gold is harder to link to force. I was thinking of ancient 'forces', and gravity or tides are obvious ones. Still, erecting a building, bridge, or tower is better. Perhaps the thrustingof tectonic plates ? But that would better fit a stone/granite/basalt crown. I also thought of gold as a great electrical conductor, but again that's off topic (and players with non-tech backgrounds would choose copper). That makes me think of a variation on another classic theme, forging an artifact from meteoric metal. In battle between Krim and the ancient gods, the surface of the moon was shattered and a fragment of it, gold ore mingled with unknown elements and exposed to strange forces, fell to earth. From this altered alloy was the Golden Crown shaped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent X Posted October 2, 2003 Report Share Posted October 2, 2003 Originally posted by Lord Liaden Really cool thoughts coming here. That is a truly dramatic image: a sympathetic magic ceremony for the darkening of sight. How about a variation on Vlad the Impaler: a tyrannical worshipper of Krim who puts out the eyes of his enemies with ceremonial obsidian knives consecrated to the demon-god, leaving them to wander in darkness. After he is overthrown other minions of Krim recover the knives and affix them as tines to a circlet of metal. (Iron? Platinum?) That makes me think of a variation on another classic theme, forging an artifact from meteoric metal. In battle between Krim and the ancient gods, the surface of the moon was shattered and a fragment of it, gold ore mingled with unknown elements and exposed to strange forces, fell to earth. From this altered alloy was the Golden Crown shaped. That's pretty good but I still think Arcanokinesis blows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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