World of Darkness Garou Template

[AlHazred]

I worked up some of the old World of Darkness stuff that I owned into Hero terms. My plan was to allow players of my High Fantasy Hero game the opportunity to play those "races" if they wanted to; plus I knew it would be an excellent opportunity to cut my teeth on 6E Hero, which is different enough I felt the need to practice.

 

After converting vampires to my satisfaction, I turned to werewolves. They're extremely interesting from a mechanical standpoint. The obvious power for them is Multiform, but after playing with the numbers for a while, it occurred to me that they're really only changing Characteristics around in the different forms. I tried it as a Multipower, and if fit a whole lot better.

 

I've uploaded this as a Package Deal here

 

EDIT: Updated post, removed non-operational links, uploaded package deal to new Download section, updated link.

World Of Darkness - Garou package deal.pdf

[tkdguy]

Re: World of Darkness Garou Template

 

Awesome! Thanks for sharing.

[Nevenall]

Re: World of Darkness Garou Template

 

Nice! That looks cool, I really like the multipower approach.

[Nolgroth]

Re: World of Darkness Garou Template

 

Hmmm. Interesting. Very interesting.

 

And did you really use the phrase "Cut my teeth" in relation to werewolves?

[AlHazred]

Yes. Yes I did!

[Nolgroth]

Re: World of Darkness Garou Template

 

Yes. Yes I did!

Awesome. Just awesome.

 

I like the template as well. The garou were, in large part, an inspiration for an Epic Fantasy Race I was building. The concept was written up in 5th Edition and I have not yet found the time to update it to 6th. Here is the link to my blog post if you are interested.

[Susano]

Re: World of Darkness Garou Template

 

I'll be hosting this on my website in due time. That and a lot of other material by AlHazred!

[Roy_The_Ruthles]

Re: World of Darkness Garou Template

 

So, I might be wrong, but is the Rage Powers Multipower supposed to draw from the Rage Pool END reserve?

 

If so, the rage powers all cost 4 END (with the exception of changing forms) which costs 1 END. This means that 3 of the 4 actions deplete the pool 4x as fast as the 4th action, rather than all actions costing 1 Rage Point. My suggestion would be to quadruple the size and recovery of the Rage Pool then add Costs x4 Endurance to Changing Forms.

 

Also, I would probably build the "recover from being stunned" power differently, but that doesn't mean this build is bad.

[AlHazred]

 

 

So, I might be wrong, but is the Rage Powers Multipower supposed to draw from the Rage Pool END reserve?

You are correct, sir!

 

If so, the rage powers all cost 4 END (with the exception of changing forms) which costs 1 END. This means that 3 of the 4 actions deplete the pool 4x as fast as the 4th action, rather than all actions costing 1 Rage Point. My suggestion would be to quadruple the size and recovery of the Rage Pool then add Costs x4 Endurance to Changing Forms.

You could do that. Rage in the WoD depends on Auspice, which factor also dictates your starting Gifts (magical powers) and Renown (equivalent in Hero to Positive Reputation, obviously, though with enhanced mechanical aspects). The lowest starting Rage is 1 (for the trickster-type werewolves) and the highest is 5 (for the warriors). I wasn't too worried about exactly copying the Werewolf system all in one go -- I wanted the "base werewolf" from which you would start. In a full conversion, there would be notes on Werewolf Breeds (determines "natural form," starting Gnosis, some Gifts), Auspice (Trickster, Seer, Judge, Moon Dancer, or Warrior - determines starting Rage, some Gifts), and Tribe (thirteen of them, determines starting Willpower, available Backgrounds, some Gifts). I haven't done all that (er... yet) because I'm not running a World of Darkness Hero game, I only wanted the basic werewolf from which I could grow my own variations.

 

Also, I would probably build the "recover from being stunned" power differently, but that doesn't mean this build is bad.

By all means, post it up, man! I love to see other ideas! I have even been known to agree on occasion*!

*Yes, I know this is a rarity on the Internet, but the Hero Boards are a special, calmer place.

[AlHazred]

I noticed a typo in the writeup, and when I checked the Package Deal it was there too. So, I've taken the liberty of re-uploading the character and Package, so they should be correct now. While I was doing that, I changed the Rage Multipower slightly -- I incorporated Roy's suggestion of x4 END cost on the Changing Forms, and modified the END Reserve slightly to more accurately reflect how Werewolf is supposed to work. As noted above, different werewolves have different starting Rage Pools. You can modify the END Reserve to the following amounts: 4 END for a Trickster, 8 END for the Seer, 12 END for the Judge, 16 END for the Moon Dancer, and 20 END for the Warrior; the Recovery on the END Reserve does not change.

[Roy_The_Ruthles]

Re: World of Darkness Garou Template

 

So building a power that recovers you from being stunned is actually quite complicated. I'm sure you could hand wave the exact interrelation between being stunned and triggered con, but my first thoughts are:

 

1) Con all the time that requires END when used (this does change it so you choose when attacked if you want to not be stunned)

2) Cannot be stunned with a continuing charge, trigger, and the limitation that it only applies to one application of being stunned

3) 12 secondary speed with "only to recover from being stunned"

 

that's off the top of my head, more limitations are of course required

[AlHazred]

Some comments:

1) Since there are no more Figured Characteristics in 6E, this solution actually can work. The main problem here is the same shortcoming as my original "solution;" how do you know you have enough CON there to prevent the character from being Stunned? The way the power is supposed to work, the werewolf can automatically shrug off a Stun effect by spending a Rage Point. I went with +20 CON, but I was just putting something in there as a placeholder hoping something would come to me later. I then dropped the ball and never returned to the build again. I should have checked before posting it, I would have found the typo and started playing around with the Rage Multipower again.
2) Playing around with the numbers, this is feasible. I avoided it mainly because it's an Automaton power, not meant for PCs to use. It does come out a little strange with END costs. I need to edit the template for the HD file to allow for "x1.5 times END" on the Increased END Cost Limitation; currently it only does it in multiples of whole numbers. The power would be 30 Active, so 1.5 would be the right multiple to make the END come out "right." Normally I wouldn't care, except everything else falls into the multiples of 4 so well.

 

Recovering From Stun: Cannot Be Stunned, Trigger (Activating the Trigger is an Action that takes no time, Trigger resets automatically, immediately after it activates; werewolf is hit with enough damage to be Stunned; +1); Costs Endurance (-1/2), Instant (-1/2), Increased Endurance Cost (x1½ END; -1/4)

3) You could do this, but it gets mechanically clunky in practice. Not the most elegant solution, though it would work for simulating certain kinds of effects.

[AlHazred]

Okay, I changed the Recovering From Stun power to the Automaton power. It looks like it should work now as intended in the Werewolf game. I've also updated the Package Deal and the attachment to my original post. Let's see how this flies. Obviously, the big thing here is the werewolf's magical Gifts. Eyeballing them, it looks like the Level 1 Gifts should be about 10 Active Points. There's little in the way of Limitations on them, so perhaps some sort of divisor (like 5E FH spells) would work. It looks like Garou should find it difficult to learn new Gifts, but it only costs them a few experience points, so dividing the costs by 3 or 5 should work. I've got too much on my plate just now to work on them, but maybe someone else will pick up the gauntlet.

[Gangrel44]

Any Chance you could show the stats on the Glabro and Crinos forms?

[AlHazred]

Any Chance you could show the stats on the Glabro and Crinos forms?

Sorry, missed that this three-year-old thread was still active!

 

Keeping in mind that this is a package deal, so the base human is unmodified:

                Homid     Glabro     Crinos     Hispo     Lupus

STR         10            15             23             18             12

DEX         10            10             13             15             15

CON        10            15             18             18             15

INT          10            10             10             10             10

EGO        10            10             10             10             10

PRE         10            10             10             10             10

PD            2              4                8              5               3

ED            2              4                8              5               3

SPD          2              2                2              2               2

REC          4              4               4               4               4

END         20             20             20             20             20

BODY      10             13             16             16             13

STUN       20             26             32             32             26

Running  12            12             15             18             24

Swimming 4             4               4               4               4

Leaping     4             6               8              10              8

[NuSoardGraphite]

Sorry, missed that this three-year-old thread was still active!

 

Keeping in mind that this is a package deal, so the base human is unmodified:

                Homid     Glabro     Crinos     Hispo     Lupus

STR         10            15             12             18             12

DEX         10            10             13             15             15

CON        10            15             18             18             15

INT          10            10             10             10             10

EGO        10            10             10             10             10

PRE         10            10             10             10             10

PD            2              4                8              5               3

ED            2              4                8              5               3

SPD          2              2                2              2               2

REC          4              4               4               4               4

END         20             20             20             20             20

BODY      10             13             16             16             13

STUN       20             26             32             32             26

Running  12            12             15             18             24

Swimming 4             4               4               4               4

Leaping     4             6               8              10              8

I notice a couple of mistakes on this chart.

 

1: The Crinos has the highest Strength of the forms. In White Wolf, it gains a +4 STR mod, which makes the STR of the "average" werewolf a 6 in Crinos form. The closest equivalent to that in HERO is about 23-25 STR. (assuming a Attribute of 5 in Storyteller equals a Characteristic of 20 in HERO)

 

Also, Lupus should be the most agile form of the 4. I would give it a slight edge over the Hispo form in the Dex category. If I remember right, Glabro get a +1 Dex, so I think that's worth at least a +2 or +3 in HERO.

 

And for PRE, the Crinos and Hispo forms should have a pretty serious PRE bonus, unless you plan to create a Talent that boosts PRE for fear-based PRE attacks...

 

I would also imagine that REC would gain a boost in all forms but the Human form (and maybe not the Lupus form)

[AlHazred]

1. Yeah, that was a typo. If you look at the actual package file, the Crinos has a 23 STR.

 

2. I based this writeup on a close reading of the fluff text for the forms first, informed by a consideration of the game stats. The Lupus form is the "fastest" form, so I gave it the highest actual movement rate.

 

3. I considered giving the Glabro +1 DEX, but nothing in the fluff noted that the form was more agile than the base human form.

 

EDIT - I'm just now realizing that, since the blogs are gone, there went a good portion of my notes on these conversions. And the Wayback Machine has not a single one of my blog posts saved up. *sigh*

[NuSoardGraphite]

1. Yeah, that was a typo. If you look at the actual package file, the Crinos has a 23 STR.

Okay, I see.

 

2. I based this writeup on a close reading of the fluff text for the forms first, informed by a consideration of the game stats. The Lupus form is the "fastest" form, so I gave it the highest actual movement rate.

I would compare with average human stats in Storyteller, then apply the bonuses and see where that puts the character. In Storyteller, average human norm is 2. In Hero, average human norm is 10 (no, not 8. Ignore crap that tells you 8 is the norm. It's wrong) In Storyteller, normal human max is 5. In Hero it's 20. So a Storyteller 5 is a Hero 20. So when Storyteller gives a +1, Hero should give a +3. Hero has a lot more granularity than Storyteller, so you can play with these bonuses somewhat. Thus a Glabro in ST is STR+2 STA+2. In Hero it should be STR+6 and CON+6. Crinos in ST is STR+4, DEX+1 and STA+3. In Hero it should be STR+12, DEX+3, CON+9. You could also make it a range of bonuses to reflect some variation in Tribal genetics.

 

Storyteller/Hero (average)

+1/+2 to +4 (+3)

+2/+5 to +7 (+6)

+3/+8 to +10 (+9)

+4/+11 to +13 (+12)

+5/+14 to +16 (+15)

etc.

 

3. I considered giving the Glabro +1 DEX, but nothing in the fluff noted that the form was more agile than the base human form.

Yeah, I remember now Glabro didn't get a Dex bonus. I always thought they should have gotten a +1. I personally would give the Hero version a +2 to +4 Dex bonus, but that's just me. The fiction tends to have Glabro werewolves as highly agile individuals (Teen wolf movies and Tv show...btw, watch the new Teen Wolf tv show on Netflix. It ain't half bad!)

[AlHazred]

Updated for the new forum. Also recreated the counterpart Kindred thread.

[AlHazred]

I've redone the pdf so that it contains a brief description of the package deal, and basically made it look more like an official Hero product.

World Of Darkness - Garou.pdf

[tkdguy]

Thank, AlHazred. Are these for 5e or 6e?

[TheQuestionMan]

Awesome!!! 

 

More please 

 

QM

[AlHazred]

Thank, AlHazred. Are these for 5e or 6e?

Sorry, these are 6E. While I intended to do them in the 5E era, I never got around to it until several years ago. Honestly, these should be just as usable in 5E, as I don't think any of the powers I used changed that much between editions.

[tkdguy]

Okay, thanks.