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Skills. How much is too much? What did you start with?


Pizza Man

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When I played it was a constant struggle with our GM , because the lure of powers was dramatic. He finally put his foot down and demanded all players have at the very least 25 points of non-CSL skills.

 

Those bad habits followed me here and it was a struggle to get GMs to say they would approve Black Falcon into their campaigns. Now things are OK, but I never got a comment on the skill set I put together. I'm surprised because I never picked up Criminology or Deduction.

 

Black Falcon is a historian/archeologist, and her starting skills show that. Her mutant gene is the survivor gene, and it reacted to an ancient curse: allowing for her transformation into Black Falcon. She's a mutant/magic origin.

 

that said, here are her starting skills:

--She did pick up a few skills since her origin, shadowing and breakfall. Stealth, concealment, and climbing are part of the Indiana Jones style of archeology.

Oratory is a natural speaking skill making her a favorite with classes and History dept fundraisers.

 

1 Wealth $ 100,000 (part owner of a trendy bar)

15 +3 CSL with Dark Prowess Multi Power (10 OCV)

2 KS Archeology/ancient civilizations

2 KS Magic artifacts, history of magic

2 KS History

1 Conversational Arabic

1 Conversational Greek

1 Conversational Latin

2 KS Campaign city 12-

2 Navigation, Air 12-

3 Stealth 13-

3 Computers 12-

3 Shadowing 12-

3 Breakfall 13-

3 Concealment 12- First honed on archeology digs looking for lost artifacts/Search

3) Oratory 12-

3 Climbing 13-

 

Its a full 50 points all told. Is this too much?

and what's your skill set? I would love to see a simple copy and paste especially for a starting character.

frankly I would wonder if players actually work together with skills, where one guy can defuse bombs, another is an all purpose scientist, etc.

 

I really wish there was a place where player made heroes could be listed.

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Re: Skills. How much is too much? What did you start with?

 

Psidestep is different. He was kidnapped/fed loyalty nanites/trained as a spy and his skills show that. He escaped before his training was completed. But its a decent starting package...yes or no?

I didn't take Deduction because spies gather information, the boys back at HQ analyze it.

 

 

Skills/Spy Training

2 Dimensional Navigation

2 Knowledge skill: the Multiverse, Extra Dimensions, the Empress’ controlled dimensions. (he downloaded an encyclopedia)

2 WF V’han Empire Blasters

2 KS V’han Empire Security protocol/spy school stuff

 

1 Conversational V’han Empire Common tongue

3 Breakfall 13-

3 Computers 12-

3 Security systems 12-

2 TF Flying cars V’han Empire

3 Combat Pilot 12- summoned Flying car from V’han Empire

3 Lock Picking 13-

3 Concealment 12- Not only hides self, but allows roll to find hidden items. Good spy search skill.

3 Conversation: weasel information out of people

3 Stealth 13-

3 Shadowing 12-

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Re: Skills. How much is too much? What did you start with?

 

Spector is a "Batman" type of character except he has powers. Here is what I have for him:

 

Acting 3 13

Breakfall 3 12

Computer Programming 3 12

Criminology 3 12

Cryptography 3 12

Demolitions 3 12

Electronics 3 12

Gambling 3 12

High Society 3 13

Knowledge 2 11

(Criminal Underworld)

Lockpicking 3 12

Paramedics 3 12

Security Systems 3 12

Shadowing 3 12

Stealth 3 12

Streetwise 3 13

Systems Operation 3 12

 

Filthy Rich 15

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Re: Skills. How much is too much? What did you start with?

 

In my game there is no such thing as too many skills. Depending on the game I start the players with some extra points that must be spent on skills. I also use a modified version of the Skill Multiplier from the APG combining all Back Ground Skills(in Superheroic games I include WFs as a BG skill) as a single group.

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Re: Skills. How much is too much? What did you start with?

 

In my game there is no such thing as too many skills. Depending on the game I start the players with some extra points that must be spent on skills. I also use a modified version of the Skill Multiplier from the APG combining all Back Ground Skills(in Superheroic games I include WFs as a BG skill) as a single group.

 

I ask for at least 10% of the total points of a starting character to be Non CSL skills and that works out pretty well.

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Re: Skills. How much is too much? What did you start with?

 

I always ask for at least one non combat skill (or talent or perk) at 10 points or more. There is no such thing as too much spent on skills, unless the campaign is combat heavy, and the character is nothing but skills. In that case, the character or campaign must be modified.

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Re: Skills. How much is too much? What did you start with?

 

I think that specifically requiring X amount of skills is not as important as requiring X amount of non-combat abilities.

Skills are one way to do this but not the ONLY way.

 

ex: Superman's super senses have served the plot in his stories in much the same way as Batman's detective skills do in his.

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Re: Skills. How much is too much? What did you start with?

 

I think that specifically requiring X amount of skills is not as important as requiring X amount of non-combat abilities.

Skills are one way to do this but not the ONLY way.

 

ex: Superman's super senses have served the plot in his stories in much the same way as Batman's detective skills do in his.

 

Very true. Acrobatics and Breakfall can be quite useful in combat, too.

 

I find the answer to "Why don't the characters have more skills" is, too often, that the GM doesn't give them an opportunity to use them. If the skills have no value, as perceived by the players, why would they invest points in them?

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Re: Skills. How much is too much? What did you start with?

 

I'm more of a believer of not placing too many rules of character creation. In the event, you would feel a player has too much in the way of skills, ask the player to justify why. Just the way I feel. (I know as a player I hate being overburdened with rules, takes the fun away)

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Re: Skills. How much is too much? What did you start with?

 

Back when I was GMing (pre 6th Edition) I encouraged players to get at least 30 pts of skill. However, if the character's background would naturally leave them with few skills that was alright. How many is too many? When your character has so many non-combat skills that their combat abilities lag well behind the rest of the group that can be a problem. Also, it is a problem when they are monopolizing all situations where skills are required. The other players spent points and should get opportunities to use them without Bud the Renaissance Man making them useless.

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Re: Skills. How much is too much? What did you start with?

 

If you have bought something from Hero games you can log in at the front page and look at all the characters in the hero vault

or go to Hero central

from the campgian drop down click on characters

then click on the character name and an HTML version will unfold or you can dl the HD file of that character

 

 

I really wish there was a place where player made heroes could be listed.

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Re: Skills. How much is too much? What did you start with?

 

If you have bought something from Hero games you can log in at the front page and look at all the characters in the hero vault

or go to Hero central

from the campgian drop down click on characters

then click on the character name and an HTML version will unfold or you can dl the HD file of that character

 

Like this:

 

FYI,

 

You can now get around this board's "no-HTML" rule without having to host your own website (like Killer Shrike's http://killershrike.com/ and Susano's http://surbrook.devermore.net/index/). All you have to do is get a HeroCentral.net FREE membership and you can then upload the Hero Designer HTML exports to that site. HeroCentral.net will then give you a URL link which you can copy and paste to any thread on this board.

 

Log into HeroCentral.net and then go to:

Account

User CP

File Storage

Add New File/Upload

 

Once you have uploaded a file you will see the URL.

I you have any pictures associated with a character be sure and upload those to the site as well.

 

Here are a few of my characters that have been in "The Vault" (http://herodesigner.com/characters.htm) for a while that I've recently uploaded to HeroCentral.net as well:

 

edit, recently added alternative links directly from Hero Designer site by way of Dan's new tags.

 

Hero Central: Mega-Mistress

 

Hero Designer:

 

I-Mind

 

 

Titanium Chef

 

 

Stretch Armstrong

 

 

Hyper-Man

 

 

Aoi-Ya (The Japanese Green Arrow)

 

 

Metalminia

 

 

Tinkerbell

 

 

Peregrine

 

 

Golden Gauntlet

 

 

Golden Transport

 

 

And for fans of converting D&D 3.5 to HERO here is:

Thia's Wizard Spells 1st through 4th

 

:D

 

MLoLT

 

 

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Re: Skills. How much is too much? What did you start with?

 

When you compel players to take noncombat skills, though, make sure those skills get used in the game. Otherwise the players will rightly complain, "OK, why didn't you just reduce the starting build points by X? It has the same practical effect, and I won't feel that the work I put into building some roleplaying handle into the character wasn't flushed down the toilet."

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Re: Skills. How much is too much? What did you start with?

 

I don't have the book with me, but here are some skills characters should have if you're looking for 25 points.

 

Deduction +1

Language: Spanish 2+ points

Language: Russian 2+ points

Language: Arabic 2+ points

Language: Chinese 2+ points

Language: Japanese 2+ points

Breakfall

Acrobatics

Conversation

Charm

Electronics

System Operations

Mechanics

KS: Criminal Organization

KS: Supervillains

KS: Superheroes

KS: Superpowers

KS: Current Events

KS: Campaign City Restaurants

KS: Smells

KS: Car/truck models

KS: Campaign City Politics

 

OK having all of these make you look like Batman, but this list let's you pick and choose. One of the new things in 6th edition is that the skills you buy have to be useful in the campaign or else they're free (so having KS:Tolkin literature is free unless the GM plans a lot of Middle Earth themed adventures). All of these skills are useful in different ways. If it's a more street level campaign, understanding what the different gangs are saying would help. Being able to identify the make and model of a car is good when your character witnesses something. And being able to know that the building you just entered has a gas leak ... it goes without saying that's important.

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Re: Skills. How much is too much? What did you start with?

 

Shrug. If skills are useful, in-game, players will buy skills. If they are not, players won't. If the GM compels them to buy skills that are never used, they will - rightly - resent it. My own experience with GMs who compel skill buy is that they don't actually use skills in their game particularly, more that they want them as window-dressing so that they feel they are "roleplaying". Equally, players who end up with PCs who have skills they don't actually want, won't use them.

 

In contrast, players who buy skills willingly will use them, because they wanted them in the first place.

 

cheers, Mark

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Re: Skills. How much is too much? What did you start with?

 

The only time this was ever an issue to me as a player or GM was when another player had some character that was basically just a certain group of combat abilities with a very thin characterization pasted on. You know, the guy who would have everything in his multipower figured out to a gnat's behind, but couldn't be bothered to name his DNPC or purchase any background skills at all.

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Re: Skills. How much is too much? What did you start with?

 

I've been considering limiting player total skill expenditure to 20 points

including combat skill and martial arts

after the first 20 points characters may pay double for skills

 

I believe most characters can cover their stick with 3 skills

 

Some concepts, maybe. But someone like Batman or a super-scientist like Reed Richards? 3 skills? No way.

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Re: Skills. How much is too much? What did you start with?

 

There are two aspects to consider: which are the skills an individual will have, and which are the "every adventurer" ones?

 

Deduction, acrobatics, breakfall, stealth, paramedics, streetwise, combat driving and so on are "every adventurer" skills. You can burn an enormous number of points on these. Not all characters will have all of them, but a lot of characters will find them useful. Obviously, combat driving would be less likely for a character who can fly, for example, but characters who can't are likely to have it.

 

Some of these skills might be regarded as combat related, and some not, but there's also a grey area: stealth? climbing? shadowing?

 

The non-adventuring skills a character might have are somewhat different. Quite a lot of characters could get by quite well with little or nothing beyond the 0-point Everyman skills, if they are used. Others might have a few KSes, and a perk or two. Overloading with this stuff rarely serves much of a point, although I'm fond of contacts.

 

In fact, I'd seriously consider playing a character that is relatively skill light, but has lots of contacts...

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Re: Skills. How much is too much? What did you start with?

 

can we change the format for displaying hdc files to eplicitly dislay text in black rather than using the default color?

 

when I use the dark color scheme it's showing white text on a white background.

Actually, it's a very pale blue on white. :D
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Re: Skills. How much is too much? What did you start with?

 

I have a hard time NOT overloading on skills and leaving space for powers.

 

And that's cool - skill monkeys can be very useful indeed, and fun to play.

Not everyone wants to be a skill monkey, but then, not everyone has to be. When I think of the FF, I think Reed (lots of skills - oh yeah, and he can stretch, too) and Ben (OK, technically a hotshot pilot, but really? Does he get any mileage out of his skills at all? He has high defences and STR). Both have a place on the team.

 

cheers, Mark

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