Post-WW3 campaign idea

[Beriadan]

I'm building on a post-WW3 campaign setting (haven't upgraded to 6th yet) and I don't have a lot of knowledge when it comes to guns. The story is the world has descended into chaos, and the vast majority of it is nuclear waste sites. Society in the world is nothing more then gangs and "military" factions warring each over (little) food, territory, and what ever else they feel like. The currency in this quite possible world is ammunition, meaning using guns is risky as you need the bullets to buy things. What I'm asking is if the list of firearms in my Big Big Book of Everything would be enough for this game. Looking at the list I think yes, but then again I'm not all that knowledgeable with guns. Other then that if any one would like to help me in getting this campaign as real as possible, I'm working on it here.

[Ian Mackinder]

Re: Post-WW3 campaign idea

 

It is easy to go overboard with this sort of thing, and try to incorporate every possible ammo type.

 

However, note that all ammo deteriorates. That's even if the ammo is stored under ideal circumstances, mind you. If said ammo is being lugged around a post-Apocalyptic landscape by a succession of grubby neobarbarians, I would expect it to deteriorate very quickly indeed. Some degree of limited manufacturing capability (and distribution) would still need to exist here and there, otherwise it will be 'Rocks'n'Sticks Time' in most places sooner than you might realize.

 

Unless the demand is big enough that people actually go to the trouble of making more, rarer / exotic ammo types would probably disappear early on. Might be a few scattered examples remaining, but this might be a kind of regional thing - certain folks might see a particular ammo type as valuable because they have weaponry that is compatible with it, others might see it as worthless junk because they don't.

 

Of course, if you take a less reality-oriented approach (eg, similar to the 'Fallout' computer games, or certain 'old school' RPGs), then ammo simply does not deteriorate. Doesn't matter if it gets wet or has been sitting in the open for weeks / months / years, you can just pick it up and use it right away.

[IndianaJoe3]

Re: Post-WW3 campaign idea

 

The Hero System Equipment Guide has an extensive selection of firearms and ammunition, starting with hand cannons and extending into the far future. They're all built for 6e, but converting them to 5e shouldn't be that hard.

[NanoEther]

Re: Post-WW3 campaign idea

 

 

However, note that all ammo deteriorates. That's even if the ammo is stored under ideal circumstances, mind you. If said ammo is being lugged around a post-Apocalyptic landscape by a succession of grubby neobarbarians, I would expect it to deteriorate very quickly indeed. Some degree of limited manufacturing capability (and distribution) would still need to exist here and there, otherwise it will be 'Rocks'n'Sticks Time' in most places sooner than you might realize.

 

Unless the demand is big enough that people actually go to the trouble of making more, rarer / exotic ammo types would probably disappear early on. Might be a few scattered examples remaining, but this might be a kind of regional thing - certain folks might see a particular ammo type as valuable because they have weaponry that is compatible with it, others might see it as worthless junk because they don't.

 

The core question still stands: How realistic do you want it? If you just want to give a nod to the need for ammo, and not worry about deterioration or tampering (like Fallout and other games), then you just need to determine the values of the rounds and go. Otherwise...

 

If it's possible to make/re-manufacture ammo, there's going to be a lot of people doing it. And while we're discussing it, there's going to be some who take a couple grains of powder out of each round they intend to sell, resulting in poor ballistics. That's one of the problems with army ammo and the M-16 family. It's a great target rifle and can easily reach 300m, as long as you have match grade rounds. Unfortunately, the army rarely provides match grade to the troops, so the rounds fall off before 300m (of course, modern combat is done at much less then 300m, but it'd be nice to be able to trust your ballistics out that far).

 

Other people would be worse, pulling the powder out and mixing it with more filler, reducing the effectiveness of the round even more; some rounds would end up with so much filler that they would fail a lot, potentially leaving a round in the barrel.

 

One way to nip this in the bud and continue to use use it as a currency is to make the casing the actual currency. In a post-apocalyptic setting, the needed manufacturing capabilities to produce the brass would be non-existent, making brass valuable no matter what the setting is (well, except New Vegas, maybe I should change that...). This satisfied two of the needs of early currency: rarity and difficulty to reproduce. The third is the need for some group or groups to recognize it as valuable, otherwise you just have a barter system.

 

This would change some of your world dynamics though. You don't have to worry about firing ammo, but you do have to worry about policing your brass. This would mean that you avoid starting a fight that you can't win, since you stand to lose a lot of 'money' if you have to retreat.

 

Personally, I'd go with a barter system and just make the brass valuable.

 

If you stick with rounds or go with brass, how do you value it? are 9mm casings worth as much as 22? What about 308? Your values may end up not matching up with size of the rounds.

 

As an example, let's look at the the 9mm and the 5.56 NATO. The 5.56 has a larger case then the 9mm, so by material a 5.56 case is more valuable then a 9mm case. This is only true if utility is the same, if one is rarer or is in higher demand, it will be worth more then the value of the material. So if there are more 9mm weapons around and the 9mm rounds and cases are harder to find, then the 9mm may end up more valuable then the 5.56.

 

I would still figure base value by the size of the case (which does not always follow the size of the round, a 22 is close in size to a 5.56 round). First, figure out the rounds you're going to start with (you can always add more later). Then figure out the relative sizes and figure out some standard, determining the weights of the different cases would be very helpful.

 

For a more realistic value system, My next step would be to build a deviation chart for the values, then use it to determine the base world values of the rounds; I would use modifiers for some rounds. Each region is going to have different values for some of the rounds, so I'd roll for regional deviations for the region the characters are in and any region that borders them (using Indiana as a template, there's at least 11 regions: Chicago, Indianapolis, Louisville, North, South, East, West, North West, North East, South West, South East. For the cardinal regions, I'd roll the NE, NW, Se, and SW regions and use an average of the neighbors to figure out the cardinals (N, S, E, & W). I'd adjust world values annually and regional values quarterly. Any region that the characters routinely go through would need to be tracked all the time; regions they're entering for the first time, or rarely, only need to be determined if they shop in those regions.

 

Of course, using a value deviation chart can be used for anything of value. But, you only need to be this detailed if you have a character whose background depends on trading, such as a trader or a scavenger/prospector. Since their livelihood depends on them not only knowing how valuable an item is, but where to get the best price for it.

[The Weapon]

Re: Post-WW3 campaign idea

 

I'm building on a post-WW3 campaign setting (haven't upgraded to 6th yet) and I don't have a lot of knowledge when it comes to guns. The story is the world has descended into chaos' date=' and the vast majority of it is nuclear waste sites. Society in the world is nothing more then gangs and "military" factions warring each over (little) food, territory, and what ever else they feel like. The currency in this quite possible world is ammunition, meaning using guns is risky as you need the bullets to buy things. What I'm asking is if the list of firearms in my Big Big Book of Everything would be enough for this game. Looking at the list I think yes, but then again I'm not all that knowledgeable with guns. Other then that if any one would like to help me in getting this campaign as real as possible, I'm working on it here.

 

Well for a start you should think about how much technical skill is needed to keep each gun (indeed each machine) working. Some are easier than others (e.g. revolvers are way easier to keep going than semi-automatic pistols). It's not hard to make black powder or to resize/melt and remake old brass for small arms ammunition. Making modern powder that's more powerful and less corrosive is a bit more difficult. The most valuable person in a military unit might be the guy who can keep the non-standard weapons going. If you can care and feed for a 75mm cannon you've got an advantage, even you can only make 10 rounds a month. In terms of what guns are around don't worry about too much detail, just think "big, bolt action hunting rifle", "cheap medium SMG that we can't keep working" etc and give appropriate stats. Don't bother about particular brands or which is better. Most of them are in less than perfect condition anyway. Worry about the most common ammunition sizes, anything else probably isn't produced or if it is only by one guy who has a particular gun. I don't know how much you should reduce the DC for using black powder or deteriorated modern powder in guns so it's whatever you want. Maybe 20%? Of course with detriorated powder sometimes it doesn't work at all or doesn't push the slide back far enough to not cause a jam. That's why people like revolvers post-WWIII.

 

PCs can buy their guns with charges that take longer to recharge, and require access to certain resources to do so. So that .50 cal could be really cheap, but will they fire it?

[Badger]

Re: Post-WW3 campaign idea

 

The core question still stands: How realistic do you want it? If you just want to give a nod to the need for ammo, and not worry about deterioration or tampering (like Fallout and other games), then you just need to determine the values of the rounds and go. Otherwise...

 

If it's possible to make/re-manufacture ammo, there's going to be a lot of people doing it. And while we're discussing it, there's going to be some who take a couple grains of powder out of each round they intend to sell, resulting in poor ballistics. That's one of the problems with army ammo and the M-16 family. It's a great target rifle and can easily reach 300m, as long as you have match grade rounds. Unfortunately, the army rarely provides match grade to the troops, so the rounds fall off before 300m (of course, modern combat is done at much less then 300m, but it'd be nice to be able to trust your ballistics out that far).

 

Other people would be worse, pulling the powder out and mixing it with more filler, reducing the effectiveness of the round even more; some rounds would end up with so much filler that they would fail a lot, potentially leaving a round in the barrel.

 

One way to nip this in the bud and continue to use use it as a currency is to make the casing the actual currency. In a post-apocalyptic setting, the needed manufacturing capabilities to produce the brass would be non-existent, making brass valuable no matter what the setting is (well, except New Vegas, maybe I should change that...). This satisfied two of the needs of early currency: rarity and difficulty to reproduce. The third is the need for some group or groups to recognize it as valuable, otherwise you just have a barter system.

 

This would change some of your world dynamics though. You don't have to worry about firing ammo, but you do have to worry about policing your brass. This would mean that you avoid starting a fight that you can't win, since you stand to lose a lot of 'money' if you have to retreat.

 

Personally, I'd go with a barter system and just make the brass valuable.

 

If you stick with rounds or go with brass, how do you value it? are 9mm casings worth as much as 22? What about 308? Your values may end up not matching up with size of the rounds.

 

As an example, let's look at the the 9mm and the 5.56 NATO. The 5.56 has a larger case then the 9mm, so by material a 5.56 case is more valuable then a 9mm case. This is only true if utility is the same, if one is rarer or is in higher demand, it will be worth more then the value of the material. So if there are more 9mm weapons around and the 9mm rounds and cases are harder to find, then the 9mm may end up more valuable then the 5.56.

 

I would still figure base value by the size of the case (which does not always follow the size of the round, a 22 is close in size to a 5.56 round). First, figure out the rounds you're going to start with (you can always add more later). Then figure out the relative sizes and figure out some standard, determining the weights of the different cases would be very helpful.

 

For a more realistic value system, My next step would be to build a deviation chart for the values, then use it to determine the base world values of the rounds; I would use modifiers for some rounds. Each region is going to have different values for some of the rounds, so I'd roll for regional deviations for the region the characters are in and any region that borders them (using Indiana as a template, there's at least 11 regions: Chicago, Indianapolis, Louisville, North, South, East, West, North West, North East, South West, South East. For the cardinal regions, I'd roll the NE, NW, Se, and SW regions and use an average of the neighbors to figure out the cardinals (N, S, E, & W). I'd adjust world values annually and regional values quarterly. Any region that the characters routinely go through would need to be tracked all the time; regions they're entering for the first time, or rarely, only need to be determined if they shop in those regions.

 

Of course, using a value deviation chart can be used for anything of value. But, you only need to be this detailed if you have a character whose background depends on trading, such as a trader or a scavenger/prospector. Since their livelihood depends on them not only knowing how valuable an item is, but where to get the best price for it.

 

Not sure if "everybody" will be making ammo. Probable. I will say someone who is actually good at will be a valuable commodity for a warlord. And will either be able to practically name their price for service and/or have every warlord in the near vicinity out to capture them.

 

Oh and I the biggest, baddest warlord I think should be named Badger. Though, I dont know why.

[Old Man]

Re: Post-WW3 campaign idea

 

Certain ammunition types will be easier to remake than others. The 12-gauge shotgun is what I would consider the most prevalent and useful ammunition type in a post-apocalyptic environment. Pump shotguns are reliable, forgiving, and easy to maintain, every police department has them, and shotgun shells are easy to refill with powder and rocks. And it's the most popular type of ammunition for reloading, so it's easier to find a reloading bench.

 

After 12-gauge, I'd expect the most common ammunition types to be 5.56mm (for M-16s), 7.62mm (for older military rifles and some hunting rifles), and then pistol calibers in 9mm, .38, and .45.