ADVANCED PLAYER'S GUIDE II -- What Do *You* Want To See?

[IndianaJoe3]

Re: ADVANCED PLAYER'S GUIDE II -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Unmapped combat -- could you explain more fully what you're talking about' date=' IJ? There are no requirements in the rules that combat be mapped; I would argue that the entire game is already usable for unmapped combat. [/quote']

 

I was thinking of expanding the Dogfighting/Intercept combat rules to include combatants other than vehicles, or to other situations (netrunning?) where a conventional map might be impractical.

 

But when you think you can make it' date=' just ignore anything I wrote after the frist comma.[/quote']

 

Segmented movement has already appeared in The Ultimate Speedster, so all it would need is a little 6e polish.

[BobGreenwade]

Re: ADVANCED PLAYER'S GUIDE II -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Combat

 

Entering Combat: Combat could open with a “Segment Zero,” which functions like a Segment 12 but is not followed by an immediate Post-12 Recovery.

 

Movement (Turn Mode): Given the removal of the hex as a measurement, perhaps a change from the current method of “move in a straight line and then turn sixty degrees” to something using the same measurement as the radius of a circular arc would be appropriate.

 

Combat Maneuvers:

 

• Could we have a further array of “By” maneuvers, such as Throw By?
  
• Possibly, an introduction of “half-point” Combat Modifiers, to make combat more granular (two +½ OCV modifiers, for example, would equal one full +1 OCV modifier).
  
• Advanced rules for combat in zero-gravity and free-fall.
  
• Possibly also rules for lowered or increased gravity.
  

 

Hit Locations:

 

• For new “Additional Hit Locations” (APG1 173), perhaps you could add Groin (for either the femoral artery or the genitals) and Heart (which could double as the breastbone or the solar plexus).
  
• An optional “Hit Locations Within Hit Locations” rule and/or table could increase the detail of certain battles when it’s called for. For example, a Head shot could be fine-tuned to hit Eyes, Neck, Mouth, Nose, Ears, Cheek, Chin, Forehead, etc.
  
• The Hero System really needs a simple rule for aiming at a particular Hit Location, but missing that location and hitting another. (I saw a Western once where a gunslinger shot the gun out of an enemy’s hand. An onlooker called out, “Nice shot!” The gunslinger snarled, “I was aiming for his head!”)
  
• Some way of formally connecting Hit Locations with where a character keeps various pieces of equipment would be helpful. This may or may not call for new rules; I’m thinking that a diagram, showing a “Hero Man” pose divided into the various Hit Locations with spaces for writing in what equipment is kept there, would be the minimum. (If there are new rules for this, they could tie in to the gadget mass rules mentioned below.)
  

Wrestling/grappling: Basically, brief rules for two characters fighting while holding on to each other, as seen in Greco-Roman wrestling. (This could be as simple as an OCV bonus or DCV penalty, or something much more complex with its own set of maneuvers.)

 

Sucker Attacks (6E2 128): Expand to include a rule for tricking two or more targets into shooting each other. (This should probably take about two or maybe three paragraphs.)

 

Long-Term Fatality: The current rules for Bleeding allow for someone to sustain an injury that will prove fatal in a matter of minutes. Someone on the boards suggested that there should be a rule for those injuries that will cause death in hours or perhaps days if the character doesn’t get medical treatment (and maybe even if he does). This could be an extension of the Impairing and Disabling rules, if desired.

 

Comeliness Attacks (see Characteristics)

 

About the social combat system, some of my suggestions can be found (explicitly or implicitly) in my suggestions on Characteristics. It should, ideally, also include some guidelines on helping players handle characters with significantly better or worse social skills than their own.

 

How about updating the diceless combat system from Digital Hero #1 for 6E?

[BobGreenwade]

Re: ADVANCED PLAYER'S GUIDE II -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Environment

 

Movement and other penalties for various terrain (swamps, forests, deserts, etc.)

 

Advanced rules for sleep deprivation.

 

Rules for large-scale natural disasters such as earthquakes, hurricanes, tsunamis, and such.

[BobGreenwade]

Re: ADVANCED PLAYER'S GUIDE II -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Equipment

 

Gadget mass rules (such as those in the first edition [with 3rd Edition rules] of Star Hero, including the Miniaturized Advantage) would go a long ways toward helping to apply Range Based On Strength. It would also give a point-based method for determining Concealment and other modifiers, including tying in to the “Hit Locations and equipment” rules mentioned above, for those who want such a thing.

 

Some guidelines on managing money might be helpful, particularly for Fantasy and Sci-Fi settings where the economy is not the same as, or even closely similar to, our modern economy. This isn’t likely to be a major feature in any game, so intense detail probably isn’t called for, though it would be good to have a basic structure through which a GM can create a highly detailed system if it’s called for in a specific setting.

 

...Whew!

 

Keep in mind that some of these items will probably not need any more detail than a mention as a possibility used at the GM's option. For example, the half-point purchase suggestion could almost be cut-and-pasted from my post above.

[IndianaJoe3]

Re: ADVANCED PLAYER'S GUIDE II -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

And, before I forget to mention it again, I'd like to see rules for constructing a skill level, along the lines of the martial arts maneuver construction rules from HSMA. I am firmly convinced that the distinction between Combat, Penalty, and General Skill levels is artificial, and fairly-costed Universal Skill Levels can be created.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: ADVANCED PLAYER'S GUIDE II -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Like APG1' date=' APG2 will be filled with optional, variant, advanced, and expanded rules for various aspects of the [i']HERO System.[/i] It will be a softcover book with no interior art -- just rules, rules, and more rules.

 

THINGS I PLAN TO PUT IN APG2

Besides addressing points raised in various questions posted on the Questions board, here are some of the things I have in mind for APG2

 

1. Social Combat rules:

2. Advanced rules for Foci, allowing you to vary their durability, size, and so on.

3. Rules for giving powers or gadgets their own DEX, SPD, etc. so that you can model Omega Beams, homing missiles, and what-all without having to write them up as full character sheets and buy 'em as Followers.

 

I like all of these.

 

4. Expansions of the STR Chart (so you'll know what you can lift with 400 STR!) and Adding Damage tables' date=' etc. I have whipped up things like this for my own occasional use, so I might as well let you use 'em too.[/quote']

 

Not hung up on this, but it already exists, so why not?

 

5. Discussion of, and suggested rules for, destroying Really Big Objects -- mountains, asteroids, planets, ringworlds, stars....

6. I am considering putting in some optional variant rules for "Time Stop" and "Time Replay" type powers (possibly expanding them into some sort of general "Reality Alteration" power). I am going to end up doing something like that for Time Travel Hero anyway, so might as well get it done early.

 

My request for these is that they be costed at a level to be useful. If the rule for, say, destroying a mountain means I need a 250 DC attack, or it costs thousands of points to stop time, why bother, as it will not be useful in many, if any, games. The fact is that powerful Supers in source material DO destroy mountains and asteroids, and then slug it out with each other, and lower powered Supers. High power Fantasy Wizards can accomplish similar feats. If the characters need so much points to accomplish these feats that they're removed from the level most games play at, then there's no real point having rules for them.

 

7. Maybe reprint/update the Speed Zone from Ultimate Speedster. That's worth keeping in print' date=' even if only as a theoretical exercise. [/quote']

 

I'd like to see this as an "Enter the ____________ Zone" writeup - a basic mechanic, and some example uses, plus some discussion of the pros, cons and impact on the game.

 

8. Possibly some rules that rejigger the Skill system to work more like combat' date=' with an "OCV" versus a "DCV." This has been mentioned here and there (in one of the Toolkitting notes in 6E1, IIRC) and is in my notes from when I was working on 6E. Not sure if it's worth pursuing but I am at least considering it.[/quote']

 

This might dovetail nicely with a Social Combat option.

 

9. Possibly a new optional take on Regeneration.

 

Again? Not excited about this, but I'm open to being impressed. [in any case, it's a bit unreasonable to expect anyone will like every rule presented in a book of rule options. If I don't like it, turn the page and there will be something more to my liking, I'm sure.]

 

I have one vague idea for something to include - a lot of things in Hero use the "+5 per doubling" rule' date=' but you don't always want things in exact powers of 2.[/quote']

 

While I appreciate the current rule is "next 5 points if it's more than the last doubling", a chart that allows finer breakpoints doesn't seem like a huge investment in work, or space. I'd like to see the APG II discuss the uses of the doubling rules, and their ramifications. For example, spending 15 points to have 8x as many Multiform shapes, or 8x as many vehicles, doesn't cause a lot of issues in play. But make those Duplicates or Followers (with fighter jets) and suddenly having 8 of them for 15 points is pretty significant.

 

I once posited a character with Extra Limbs (say 128 arms), a 60 AP Multipower IIF Ring with 8 60 AP slots (88 points), doubled (say) 10 times (one for each of his 1,024 fingers, not thumbs) and a Thumb Ring with +1 rPD, +1rED, +1 PowDef, +1 Mental Def, +1 Sight Flash Def, hearing Flash Def and Smell Flash Def, all Hardened (10 AP), all IIF, so 8 points and 8 doublings (256 rings, one for each thumb). Slap 16 charges on each Multipower slot, use Multiple Power Attacks and those are 138 + 48 = 186 points well spent. How do we allow the interesting constructs and weed out the abuses?

 

I'd also like to see these rules expanded beyond gear/foci. If Swordman can have another sword for 5 points, why can't Clawman have identical claws on both hands for the same 5 points?

 

This may not be an appropriate thing for this book, but rules on running Heroic characters and Superheroic characters in the same game, with rules to make sure the two stay balanced, could be useful in some genres.

 

Finally, I would love rules on buying Movement powers in terms of Meters per Turn (rather than per Phase) so that a slight bump in Speed doesn't make for a huge increase in movement (to me, Speed is a measure of reaction time, and reaction time shouldn't increase running speed).

 

These sound like good options.

 

General

 

Allow for half-point purchases, at the GM’s discretion.

 

Why? Wouldn't it be easier to double everything?

 

STR' date=' DEX, CON, INT, EGO, PRE: Could intermediate levels give slight bonuses to Characteristic Rolls and Characteristic-based Skills Rolls? A character who misses a Roll by 1 could make an extra roll for the possibility of still making it. For example, +1 CHAR could give a +1 on 7-, +2 gives +1 on 9-, +3 on 11-, and +4 on 13- (this corresponds roughly to a 20% chance per +1 CHAR).[/quote']

 

I like the theory of making every point count. Another approach is that a missed roll rolls 1d6. If you roll less than or equal to extra points over the break point, you succeed. So with 15 INT, a 13 roll has a 2 in 6 chance of success.

 

SPD: Allow for fractional SPD' date=' at least at half-points (for example, SPD 2.5 moves on 3, 8, and 12 on the first Turn, then 5 and 10 on the next; SPD 3.5 moves on 2, 6, 9, and 12, then 4, 7, and 11. Or, given the initial Segment 12, perhaps the other way around.)[/quote']

 

Sure. Was SPD over 12 covered in APG? if not, let's get it in here.

 

Oh, and options for more reasonable mid-turn SPD changes, please!

 

BODY: The (optional) use of BODY Rolls instead of CON Rolls for certain health-related checks' date=' such as Disabling effects. This would always use the current value for BODY. It could also mean moving BODY to the upper part of the Characteristics block on the character sheet (at the GM’s discretion).[/quote']

 

Options for other uses for various characteristics sounds good.

 

COM — define as “good aesthetic quality” that includes sexual attractiveness' date=' but much more.[/quote']

 

I'd have no objections, but I am forced to agree with the general philosophy that it must do things separate and apart from other characteristics (ie not just modify PRE).

 

LUCK — could be made into a Characteristic with a Roll (base 10' date=' cost 1)[/quote']

 

I'd be more inclined to include this with alternative rules for Luck.

 

The return of Negative Characteristics rules

 

I'd be OK with it, but I think "return" violates one of the ground rules.

 

Allow for the concept of “un-buying” things — that is, buying negative Powers. This is already possible, at least in principle, with basic movement (Running, Swimming, and Leaping). Other possibilities include:

• Damage Negation (the character takes extra DCs from attacks)
  
• Knockback Resistance (the character adds BODY for purposes of Knockback; this can be added to small Size Templates)
  
• Mental Defense and Power Defense (the character takes extra damage point-for-point from the corresponding attacks; this one is admittedly a stretch)
  
• Enhanced Perception (the character takes PER Roll penalties with a Sense, Sense Group, or all Perception)
  
• “Free” elements of certain Senses and Sense Groups, such as Targeting for Sight Sense Group or Sense for Normal Hearing. (There are actual real-world neurological conditions that such a thing could represent.)

 

This seems consistent with the "sell back senses" approach adopted in 6e, so I'd like to see the option.

 

Change Environment:

 

• Gravity manipulation (direction as well as amount)
  
• Is there a way to change what Movement Power is needed to move through an area? For example, one might fill a room or other space with water so one crosses it using Swimming rather than Running or Flight.
  
• Negative Skill Levels (basically demonstrating how to “Grandfather” this in from 5th; the mechanics are already in place)
  
• If ½ point bonuses and penalties on Skill Rolls (and other 3d6 rolls) is included as described above, then ways to affect PER Rolls, Characteristic Rolls, Skill Rolls, and so forth can be included at half cost.
  

 

I like these, other than not seeing much benefit to fractional points.

 

Duplication:

 

• Utilize the “intermediate numbers” table for 3, 5, 6, 7, 9, or other numbers of Dupes. This could also be applied to Followers, Multiform, Summon, Equipment, and other things.
  
• What of cases where none of the forms is really a “base” character? (+½ Advantage?)
  
• What of “effectively unlimited” numbers of Duplicates? (Maybe 64 or more is treated this way, as is the case with Charges?)
  
• Could Duplication be used for swarm tactics? (It might need special Combat rules.)
  

 

Combat rules for swarm tactics in general sounds goood, as does most of the above.

 

Entangle: Could this have the “Suffocation” Adder imported from Change Environment (APG 83)?

 

I'll second that!

 

Regeneration:

 

• As a “Stop Sign” option, allow the Can Regrow Limbs Adder (and possibly the Resurrection Adder) to be bought “naked,” or directly to the character’s REC. The character would still heal BODY at his normal rate, but would be able to regrow lost body parts (or even his life) in so doing.
  
• Also, it would be helpful to have something to clarify how long it takes for a limb to grow back in this manner.
  

 

Makes sense - the two don't need to be linked, and I'd say this is no more "stop sign" than any use of the adders for a regenerator. Does anything prevent this now?

 

Transform: Someone on the boards suggested that there should be some kind of modifier for how common a method for “healing back” from Transform is. For example' date=' if “lead to gold” is automatically reversed by a “gold to lead” Transform, then that would be better than someone else’s “lead to gold” Transform that can also be reversed by any Dispel, and that in turn is better than simply immersing the gold in vinegar.[/quote']

 

Sounds good.

 

As a toolkitting option' date=' could we have some discussion of things like +⅛ Advantages, -⅛ Limitations, and other figures? Limitations at decimal levels (increments of 0.1 or 0.05) were also discussed somewhat during the 6th Edition development process, and could be mentioned here. It’s not something that would have to be implemented in HD; it could even be just stuck into a Text Box, to emphasize how peripheral the idea is.[/quote']

 

I don't see much use for this.

 

Especially Effective Advantage Combinations: The discussion and table in APG (page 132-133) is a good start' date=' but it only takes into account the Advantages listed in 6E1 317-362. There are more in 6E1 141-143, 147, and 157-158, as well as the new Proportional Modifier from APG 139-140 and any new ones in this book. (I do think that the principle should apply to Adjustment Powers with their specific Advantages as much as to other Attack Powers, and possibly to Defense Powers.) An expanded table would be helpful.[/quote']

 

Not excited about this.

 

Alternate Characteristic Stunning: Could an Attack Power use a Characteristic other than CON to determine whether the target is Stunned? For example' date=' a vertigo attack could use DEX, an attack against intellect could use INT, or a fear-based attack could use PRE. Even COM and LUCK would be possibilities.[/quote']

 

I like this idea, as well as changing the base (ie not "exceeding CON", but "exceeding 1/2 CON" or "exceeding 2x CON").

 

Attack Versus Alternate Defense: Could there be intermediate levels of defenses' date=' worth ±¼ compared to the other levels? For example, Smell/Taste or Touch Group Flash Defense would be less frequent than Sight or Hearing Group Flash Defense, but more frequent than any type of Resistant Flash Defense.[/quote']

 

Adding more AVAD options can't hurt.

 

Gate: I’ve sometimes wondered if this might not be more neatly done as a “packaged” Power Advantage. Together' date=' the listed Advantages at minimum power are +1; throw in a -½ Limitation and you roughly have the equivalent of a +½ Advantage for a basic 2m, one-person Gate. An additional +¼ Advantage can double the radius, or +¼ can double the number of people passing through, and there’s a package all wrapped up for a campaign that makes frequent use of Gates. (This would obviously be a “Caution Sign” ability, and an option subject to the GM’s approval.) Also, some clarification on issues about number of people passing through a Gate, allowed mass per person, and so forth, as already touched on in the FAQ, would be good.[/quote']

 

Seems like a decent issue - teleport and EDM Gates are pretty common in the source material.

 

Indirect: In working up the powers for Champions Powers' date=' I came across at least one that had Indirect with the source point at the character, but a variable path. The Portable Mortar example in the main rulebook (6E1 337) seems to do the same thing. A clarifying rule allowing this (and support for it in HD) would be good.[/quote']

 

Options for indirect would be welcome.

 

MegaScale: Someone else (in the Fantasy Hero WDYWTS thread) already suggested including the intermediate levels of less than +1 for this Advantage: +½ for 1m = 10m and +¾ for 1m = 100m seems reasonable' date=' given the ¼ less Advantage for “cannot alter scale.”[/quote']

 

At +1/2 for 1m = 10m (and I can alter the scale), why should I ever buy +6 meters Running? I think Megascale is best left as an "outside practical combat scale" ability. I could see some discussion about linking Megascale and Faster than Light, though.

 

Ranged: A version called Throwable (+¼)' date=' that allows Range in exchange for treating the Power as though it had one Recoverable Charge.[/quote']

 

Seems more limited than Range based on STR, for the same cost. Is there a reason someone should buy it?

 

Sticky: How about an additional +½ for “Contagious' date='” that just keeps on affecting everyone who touches anyone affected by the Power? That would be a good way to build a contagious disease, spreading fire, and similar effects. (Like the bicycle scene in The Wizard of Speed and Time.)[/quote']

 

Seems like an appropriate addition - something we can't do under current rules.

 

Limited Arc Of Fire: Allow this Limitation for regular characters.

Limited Coverage: A Limitation for Defensive Powers based on the Hit Locations they cover.

Requires A Roll:

 

• Extend the Unmodified Roll element to give exact values all the way down to 3, and (possibly) all the way up to 17.
  
• Allow some form of the old “Roll Can Be Opposed” modifier.
  
• The ability to oppose with a Roll could also be included without needing a Roll from the character, creating the equivalent of a “Saving Throw.”
  
• Add a “Roll Per Target” modifier — the Power either always affects a target, or it never does so. This would probably be ¼ or ½ less to the Limitation, since once the Power fails to affect the target the character knows to not waste the effort in the future.
  

 

I like expanding these.

 

As a “Stop Sign” rule, allow characters to gain the points from new Complications gained during play, with a requirement that those points be spent on things to deal with the Complication.

 

Enraged/Berserk: APG1 had a very nice table for frequencies for Vulnerability; how about a similar list of possible events and probable frequencies for this Complication? (Also you might include some for the alternate forms of Enraged/Berserk: Distracted, Hypnotized, Panicked, and Weird.)

 

Hunted: How about a +5 point (or even +10 point) Adder for a “class of people” element? For example, an international criminal might be Hunted by several different law enforcement agencies, while a vigilante might be Hunted by organized crime in general. These would be harder to deal with than ordinary Hunters, since getting rid of one still leaves all the others, and more than one can show up at the same time.

 

All seem good.

 

Quirks: Those little 1-point Complications that otherwise would be worth 0 points.

 

Given Complications otherwise all work in multiples of 5, and almost no one fails to max out, this means everyone ends up with at least 5 Quirks. Is that desirable?

 

Rivalry: I’m inclined to replace the “Rival is a PC” element with “Rival is a teammate” — the statement that a PC “by definition possesses more importance and advantages than the average person' date='” by implication including even an identically-built NPC, seems artificial. Even so, the “teammate” element might be simply added in general, since being on the same team as a Rival makes it come up much more often, and definitely would interfere with the efficient running of a team even if it’s an NPC team.[/quote']

 

I agree - I dislike special rules for PC's (or NPC's) only.

 

Susceptibility:

 

• Could the Incompetence, Weakness, and Affects Character’s Powers elements be imported from Dependence?
  
• How about a clarification on how allergies (such as severe hay fever, or dander allergies) would work? The bit on 6E2 304 is an excellent start.
  

 

All good stuff.

 

Unluck:

Some GMs may want to do away with the 5d6 maximum — for example, in a game simulating Saturday morning cartoons (do you really think Wile E. Coyote has only 5d6 of Unluck?) or some other wildly comical setting.

 

In conjunction, and also for Luck, higher results charts could be handy 6 or more 1's; 6 or more 6's). But only if they add something - just "more of the same over broader area" is all I can think of, and that's not worth the page space.

 

Entering Combat: Combat could open with a “Segment Zero' date='” which functions like a Segment 12 but is not followed by an immediate Post-12 Recovery.[/quote']

 

Options for recovery in general could include the above, not allowing recoveries without an action (eg. no PS 12), and perhaps a "half recovery" in combat that recovers less, but does not have the same detrimental impact on DCV and maintaining powers. I recall such a maneuver from a really old Hero newsletter, but that's as close as I think it ever got to being a rule.

 

Movement (Turn Mode): Given the removal of the hex as a measurement' date=' perhaps a change from the current method of “move in a straight line and then turn sixty degrees” to something using the same measurement as the radius of a circular arc would be appropriate.[/quote']

 

More options for movement in general, including items such as the above, and segmented movement, could be useful.

 

Combat Maneuvers:

 

• Could we have a further array of “By” maneuvers, such as Throw By?
  
• Possibly, an introduction of “half-point” Combat Modifiers, to make combat more granular (two +½ OCV modifiers, for example, would equal one full +1 OCV modifier).
  
• Advanced rules for combat in zero-gravity and free-fall.
  
• Possibly also rules for lowered or increased gravity.
  

 

Rather than "by" maneuvers, what about more options for combining maneuvers in general?

 

• For new “Additional Hit Locations” (APG1 173), perhaps you could add Groin (for either the femoral artery or the genitals) and Heart (which could double as the breastbone or the solar plexus).
  
• An optional “Hit Locations Within Hit Locations” rule and/or table could increase the detail of certain battles when it’s called for. For example, a Head shot could be fine-tuned to hit Eyes, Neck, Mouth, Nose, Ears, Cheek, Chin, Forehead, etc.
  
• The Hero System really needs a simple rule for aiming at a particular Hit Location, but missing that location and hitting another. (I saw a Western once where a gunslinger shot the gun out of an enemy’s hand. An onlooker called out, “Nice shot!” The gunslinger snarled, “I was aiming for his head!”)
  
• Some way of formally connecting Hit Locations with where a character keeps various pieces of equipment would be helpful. This may or may not call for new rules; I’m thinking that a diagram, showing a “Hero Man” pose divided into the various Hit Locations with spaces for writing in what equipment is kept there, would be the minimum. (If there are new rules for this, they could tie in to the gadget mass rules mentioned below.)
  

 

While I see some merit, I don't want this to become Charts Hero, with the inevitability that, sooner or later, someone rolls "Through the Eye Socket to the Brain" with multiples that spell instant death.

 

Wrestling/grappling: Basically' date=' brief rules for two characters fighting while holding on to each other, as seen in Greco-Roman wrestling. (This could be as simple as an OCV bonus or DCV penalty, or something much more complex with its own set of maneuvers.)[/quote']

 

More rules, and variant rules, for Grabbed and Grabbing characters seems like a great idea to me.

 

Sucker Attacks (6E2 128): Expand to include a rule for tricking two or more targets into shooting each other. (This should probably take about two or maybe three paragraphs.)

 

Long-Term Fatality: The current rules for Bleeding allow for someone to sustain an injury that will prove fatal in a matter of minutes. Someone on the boards suggested that there should be a rule for those injuries that will cause death in hours or perhaps days if the character doesn’t get medical treatment (and maybe even if he does). This could be an extension of the Impairing and Disabling rules, if desired.

 

I like these options as well.

 

Movement and other penalties for various terrain (swamps, forests, deserts, etc.)

 

Advanced rules for sleep deprivation.

 

Rules for large-scale natural disasters such as earthquakes, hurricanes, tsunamis, and such.

 

All seem useful

 

Equipment

 

Gadget mass rules (such as those in the first edition [with 3rd Edition rules] of Star Hero, including the Miniaturized Advantage) would go a long ways toward helping to apply Range Based On Strength. It would also give a point-based method for determining Concealment and other modifiers, including tying in to the “Hit Locations and equipment” rules mentioned above, for those who want such a thing.

 

Some guidelines on managing money might be helpful, particularly for Fantasy and Sci-Fi settings where the economy is not the same as, or even closely similar to, our modern economy. This isn’t likely to be a major feature in any game, so intense detail probably isn’t called for, though it would be good to have a basic structure through which a GM can create a highly detailed system if it’s called for in a specific setting.

 

These fit nicely with expanded Focus rules - the rules apply even when gear is purchased for points, and these rules then get translated to Focus where gear is purchased with points.

 

And' date=' before I forget to mention it again, I'd like to see rules for constructing a skill level, along the lines of the martial arts maneuver construction rules from HSMA. I am firmly convinced that the distinction between Combat, Penalty, and General Skill levels is artificial, and fairly-costed Universal Skill Levels can be created.[/quote']

 

I like this idea - where does the Skill Level start, and how does it scale down?

[Steve Long]

Re: ADVANCED PLAYER'S GUIDE II -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

OK, hold on, let me try to put a stop to this.

 

While I want everyone to have their fair share of input, please don't start lengthy discussions of other peoples' posts. Post your own ideas and move on. I don't want this to get clogged up with a lot of chatter and debate; that significantly reduces the thread's helpfulness to me.

[Enforcer84]

Re: ADVANCED PLAYER'S GUIDE II -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

well I did love the Mental Martial Arts packages from Ultimate Mentalist, not sure if they've been reupped.

I commend you, Steve on the first APG, picked it up recently and I was very impressed with it.

[ghost-angel]

Re: ADVANCED PLAYER'S GUIDE II -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

To echo Enforcer84 - the Mental Combat Maneuvers would be a cool addition to 6E, it's been a while since I looked at them, not sure if anything needs to be updated or if it's just a total reprint.

 

I had some other ideas of things I wanted to see... darn it, now I have to go remember them

[Naanomi]

Re: ADVANCED PLAYER'S GUIDE II -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Discussion of 'death' as a game concept...

 

What it would take to affect dead characters

How to build powers that continue to operate after death

Resurrection: Tricks + Builds (example: regrowing a body in a different location than where your corpse is)

[dsatow]

Re: ADVANCED PLAYER'S GUIDE II -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

I would like to see

 

1 - mental martial arts

2 - vehicular maneuvers such as side slipping and drift and how to use the combat driving/piloting with them. Possibly vehicular martial arts for people who do rote maneuvers all the time.

3 - new stun mods for the hit locations chart. Since stun die is now 1/2, why should hitting the head be 5x stun? Personally, I'd just rather use the N stun for all attacks on the chart. Better rules for using hit locations in super hero genre.

4 - environmental movement penalties

5 - diseases and poisons and their general effects in HERO

6 - money as a superpower. Players generally buy wealth and then use it to buy off people or solve problems making it worth more for it's points than what it actually costs.

7 - points and equivalency. What does a 15 Pre represents? Is it the Pre of a hometown hero or of a major Hollywood actor? What does a Int 13 mean, genius or just smart? Is there any reason to buy characteristics (what used to be primary) beyond the 4 magic numbers of 3 5 8 and 0?

[Vanguard]

Re: ADVANCED PLAYER'S GUIDE II -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Don't know if this has already been suggested, haven't read the entire thread, but I would like to see all the optional rules that the APG2 bring to the table included in the Hero Designer program.

 

It's very frustrating to sit down to create a character with the official character creation software and then not be able to because it doesn't include all the rules.

[Narf the Mouse]

Re: ADVANCED PLAYER'S GUIDE II -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Rules for using Skill vs Skill rolls for combat, where one character could have Swords 12-, Battleaxe 11- and Longswords 14-, which they could pit against someone else's Medium Shields 13- or Short Spear 17- (good luck). This would replace OCV and DCV. Combat Skill Levels would have to be adapted or discarded; Maneuvers could likely be used as-is.

 

Combined with OCV vs DCV rules for skill rolls, it would allow groups to consolidate to one consistent system.

[JmOz]

Re: ADVANCED PLAYER'S GUIDE II -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

These are a couple house rules that have worked well for me

 

an alternate skill system, based on a characteristic + bonus idea...ok, that does not make sense, so I will give an example. A character would buy Acrobatics +1 (5 points). Then if he comes across a question about who won the olympics in acrobatics it becomes an INT+1 Roll, when he needs to do a acrobatic technique to save from a fall it would be a Dex+1, and when performing a PRE +1. The cost would be something like

 

-5 roll 1 point

-2 roll 2 points

-- Roll 3 points

+1 /+2 points

 

 

combining Followers/Vehicles/Bases, so the x2 for +5 can be spread out some

 

I would also like (but have not tried) some greater details about Computer link (Examples of cost for better systems, and for wireless connections) and membership (I have a house rule that works well for champions games where the number of points placed into it gives better bases/vehicles of a non combat nature)

[Mister E]

Re: ADVANCED PLAYER'S GUIDE II -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

I'd like to see something added to the notion of Extraordinary rolls. Specifically, I like the idea of being able to attempt Power "Stunts" using only either Extraordinary Skill rolls or pure Extraordinary Characteristic rolls.

 

Obviously, this is an advanced idea, for experience gamers, but it isn't much different from using Power Skills w/ VPPs.

 

This is how I do it:

 

1) You must have at least an Extraordinary 18- roll to make the attempt.

 

2) The difficulty is -10 modified by -1 per 5 active points in the Power.

 

The advantage of using this idea (over using Power Skills w/ VPPs) is that it does not depend on a Power Framework (though it acts like one). In addition, as it is solely dependent on the roll, the roll itself aptly represents the level of ability possessed by the character.

 

The only thing that is really required at this point is a discussion of what specific Powers ought to relate to specific Characteristics & Skills. Both to help GMs make appropriate decisions on the matter, & to give Players an idea of potential options their Extraordinary PCs may take.

 

[edit]: here are 2 older links to threads on the subject:

 

Costing "Requires an Extraodinary Skill Roll"

Extraordinary Characteristic Rolls

 

 

“Perfection does not exist in doing extraordinary things, but in doing ordinary things extraordinarily well.”

 

- Angelique Arnauld

[Steve Long]

Re: ADVANCED PLAYER'S GUIDE II -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

points and equivalency. What does a 15 Pre represents? Is it the Pre of a hometown hero or of a major Hollywood actor? What does a Int 13 mean, genius or just smart? Is there any reason to buy characteristics (what used to be primary) beyond the 4 magic numbers of 3 5 8 and 0?

 

I've already said as much as I'm ever going to about this subject on 6E1 48-49 -- beyond that it's entirely up to the GM.

[Hugh Neilson]

Re: ADVANCED PLAYER'S GUIDE II -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Rules for modifying the Recoveries chart (ie instead of 0 to -9, 10 to -19, 20 to -29, -30 or worse, allowing a character to purchase or sell back increments - so this character gets REC every phase at 0 - -14 STUN, 1/turn at -15 to -29, and 1/minute at -30 to -44, GM option at -45 or lower). The danger is combat that goes on forever - characters that are impossible to keep down. But the benefit is being able to design characters who are - you guessed it - harder to keep down.

 

How about different hit location charts for different creature types and/or different size targets? Snakes, for example, don't work well with the humanocentric model we have now, and does a dinosaur really have that much sensitivity in its head? We never hit the tail, and it seems unlikely I'll hit the hind leg of an Ankylosaur if I'm standing face to face with it.

[Christopher]

Re: ADVANCED PLAYER'S GUIDE II -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

THINGS I PLAN TO PUT IN APG2

[...]

4. Expansions of the STR Chart (so you'll know what you can lift with 400 STR!)

Does STR 400 equal 2.5 * 10^25 kg Lifting Weight? Beacause if it does, an equivalent chart will be availible here.

And if not, I'd like to know when at wich point the progression changed so I can limit that chart to stop there.

[BobGreenwade]

Re: ADVANCED PLAYER'S GUIDE II -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Characteristics

 

LUCK — could be made into a Characteristic with a Roll (base 10, cost 1)

I'd be more inclined to include this with alternative rules for Luck.

That's my intent.

 

The return of Negative Characteristics rules' date=' with some recommended changes:[/quote']

I'd be OK with it' date=' but I think "return" violates one of the ground rules.[/quote']Mea culpa. As I said, anything (other than COM) that made it past this filter was an oversight.

 

Quirks: Those little 1-point Complications that otherwise would be worth 0 points.

Given Complications otherwise all work in multiples of 5' date=' and almost no one fails to max out, this means everyone ends up with at least 5 Quirks. Is that desirable?[/quote']There currently is an option (APG 155) to apply Limitations to Complications.

 

Also, some of the Complications could be scaled to intermediate costs. This was a suggestion that I forgot to put into the earlier list. One could have +3 point levels of frequency and severity for Physical, Psychological, and Social Complications; half dice on Dependence, Susceptibility, and Unluck; intermediate rolls for Accidental Change and Enraged/Berserk; and so forth.

 

While I want everyone to have their fair share of input' date=' please don't start lengthy discussions of other peoples' posts. Post your own ideas and move on. I don't want this to get clogged up with a lot of chatter and debate; that significantly reduces the thread's helpfulness to me.[/quote']Hopefully brief discussions on preceding posts won't hurt things... as long as we keep it brief.

[Peregrine]

Re: ADVANCED PLAYER'S GUIDE II -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

I've already said as much as I'm ever going to about this subject on 6E1 48-49 -- beyond that it's entirely up to the GM.

 

 

And for that last phrase, I (at least) thank you.

[Rei Malebario]

Re: ADVANCED PLAYER'S GUIDE II -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Stuff I'd really like to see:

• Movement by segment (mainly for vehicles - I'm fine with movement the way it is for characters).

• Some expansions on the vehicle rules. Especially the thing that I think is extremely important and which nearly ever RPG vehicle system for some reason forgets to include: What happens to the occupants when the vehicle crashes, tumbles, gets shot at etc.?

• Some expansion on the rules for LTE would be nice. Powers that drain straight from LTE (instead of regular END, for example) - I reckon that that should be a fairly tough limitation, but it would be good for building some types of magic systems.

• I'm not sure if this falls under the "Stuff you've taken out" rule as I've no way of knowing whether you've taken it out or just haven't got around to including a 6E version of it: the spirit rules that originally appeared (IIRC) in a HERO System Almanac. Because they were very useful and would seem logical to include being, essentially, the other side of the Automaton rules.

[Escafarc]

Re: ADVANCED PLAYER'S GUIDE II -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Some more in depth examples of different types of Power Frameworks.

[IndianaJoe3]

Re: ADVANCED PLAYER'S GUIDE II -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

I'm not sure if this falls under the "Stuff you've taken out" rule as I've no way of knowing whether you've taken it out or just haven't got around to including a 6E version of it: the spirit rules that originally appeared (IIRC) in a HERO System Almanac. Because they were very useful and would seem logical to include being' date=' essentially, the other side of the Automaton rules.[/quote']

 

I don't think the rules for Incomplete Characters have ever been formally published, and I think at least a few people would be interested in them.

[Christopher]

Re: ADVANCED PLAYER'S GUIDE II -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

I don't think the rules for Incomplete Characters have ever been formally published' date=' and I think at least a few people would be interested in them.[/quote']

When "Incomplete Characters" means something like a ghost or AI that can only act through powers (Multiform, Posession)/vehicles but is also very hard to attack (beacuse being, well, intangible): Then, I definetly would be intereseted in them.

[Steve]

Re: ADVANCED PLAYER'S GUIDE II -- What Do *You* Want To See?

 

I would like to add my vote for mental martial arts.

 

I would also like to see expanded Life Support Immunities and Safe Environments. For immunities, I would offer the suggestions of cancer, mental illnesses (which could come into play in games where sanity can be affected by game events) and curse-type diseases such as lycanthrope and vampirism. For Safe Environments, being resistant to things like sunburn, needing less water than normal (for desert-bred characters) and expanding the resistance of a character to cold, heat and humidity. What I mean by that is to enable racial abilities to expand comfortable environments by one or two levels beyond the normal range instead of being able to survive cold near absolute zero or heat up to where steel melts.