Atari unloading Cryptic Studios

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Atari unloading Cryptic Studios

 

Personally I have no problem in principle with a brick with a sword, as long as he uses it responsibly and appropriately: smashing Foci, trashing robots and golems, carving up invading starships, demolishing the support columns to the master villain's fortress, etc. rather than slicing living opponents.

 

While I do have points of contention with some of the decisions Cryptic Studios have made about the direction of the IP (and yes, Shadow Destroyer is high on that list) , I also disagreed with some of the moves DOJ made when they took control of the Champions Universe. I expected that and accept it, because overall the change under DOJ has been an improvement IMHO. Also IMHO, Cryptic have added a lot of very interesting and useful content to the Champions Universe: the expansions to Monster Island, the Lemurian civil war, the development of the Gadroon and Qularr, the additions to Earth's Moon, the Stronghold breakout, the Burning Sands area, the definition of Kigatilik.

[Tasha]

Re: Atari unloading Cryptic Studios

 

Agreed......I'm not defending Cryptic at all, what I was saying though it seems to be a common thing in the computer game industry, to say one is doing well just because one did not suck as much as they did the previous quarter, even though the number in question is still in the negative of millions.....

 

WOW, seems to make it's way on the addiction factor....hence it can trip and stumble here and there because where are the WOW people going to go?

 

I wished nothing but the best for Cryptic when the CO thing was going to roll out, crossed my fingers, prayed that it wouldn't be COH all over again, but like you said, terrible engine, crappy launch. *shrug* Microtransaction thing brought me back to it for awhile but then performance issues and lag stuff started to annoy me again (especially when it's the high end machine getting all the lag, while every other game works just fine)....

 

Games better.....cept for the Lag issues which i will track down eventually since who knows where they are coming from, micro transaction thing is the way to go obviously, and so far the folks chugging along with the champs and trek stuff seem to say all is good as far as those games..... So remains to be seen.

 

The chopping block action though, doesn't surprise me with the numbers that can be googled up. Like you said Cryptic shot themselves in the foot and with COH behind them, they shoulda known better.

 

~Rex

 

I thought it was real telling that COH got much better after Cryptic split off to make Marvel Online (which morphed into CO). I never had issues with the CO game engine, it didn't like my 8800 video card. When I upgraded systems the game started to look somewhat better. The issues I had/have with CO are all about fundamental Game design that no amount of patching can fix (Or can't be fixed without doing a Star Wars Galaxies NGE rewrite). Also, the stories were boring and not compelling. Also I found that the mission flow sucked after one left the starting areas (ie where the hell do I go?). Only Cryptic could take an IP like CO and turn it into a borefest.

 

I am sure that The profit numbers that Atari posted just included Box sales + Micro transactions. They were probably counting server maintenance costs elsewhere to bolster their numbers for the stock holders. This new number that they are publishing probably includes everything (all revenue and all costs).

[Tasha]

Re: Atari unloading Cryptic Studios

 

They gave him a sword cause he's a gladiator.

And I never saw him use it in the very brief encounter I had with him.

 

However, I can't stand some of their redesigns.

 

yeah I really dislike New Defender with the spandex powersuit with no helmet. New Menton also annoyed me. Shadow Destroyer is interesting in his own way, though the Dr Fate Helmet didn't do much for me.

[RexMundi]

Re: Atari unloading Cryptic Studios

 

I thought it was real telling that COH got much better after Cryptic split off to make Marvel Online (which morphed into CO). I never had issues with the CO game engine, it didn't like my 8800 video card. When I upgraded systems the game started to look somewhat better. The issues I had/have with CO are all about fundamental Game design that no amount of patching can fix (Or can't be fixed without doing a Star Wars Galaxies NGE rewrite). Also, the stories were boring and not compelling. Also I found that the mission flow sucked after one left the starting areas (ie where the hell do I go?). Only Cryptic could take an IP like CO and turn it into a borefest.

 

I am sure that The profit numbers that Atari posted just included Box sales + Micro transactions. They were probably counting server maintenance costs elsewhere to bolster their numbers for the stock holders. This new number that they are publishing probably includes everything (all revenue and all costs).

 

Yeah I saw a big improvement in COH after Cryptic ran off to do Marvel, but by then I was so annoyed with MMO's in general that it didn't matter. I still don't see any excuse for the game design stuff and the bad story. The Story has been slowly getting better though, so I'm curious as to see if they will actually continue that, instead of trying to dumb it down for the LCD grind it crowd. Not happy with the Mission Flow either. I guess what I really wanted was, Champions, Online.......but it's more like, We'll hint at it, then yank it away.

 

I don't think that Atari is publicly traded anymore, at least since the Atari, SA thing, but if it is publicly traded then you can request the actual numbers from them in any order you would want to see them. Open books are fun that way. Doesn't matter what kind of Accounting Magic you want to try then. Zero's are Zero's and Negatives are still Negative.

 

~Rex

[Certified]

Re: Atari unloading Cryptic Studios

 

One thing to keep in mind is Cryptic is not just Champions Online it's also Star Trek Online and Neverwinter Nights Online (Pending). Personally, I think getting out from under Atari is probably best for the studio in general. Both CO and STO felt rushed to market and both have taken major strides since to fill in gaps.

 

As to Champions Online gameplay. The adventure packs, revamping of Westside and the South West Desert's Burning Sands, have helped but for the most part a large chunk of content is simply not compelling. In a perfect world I'd like to see this same kind of revision throughout the rest of the zones. In a more perfect world I'd like to see these same zones get alternate story arcs so that different characters could have different experiences.

 

Champions Online is finally coming to a point where you don't have to play through everything to level. If the ongoing comic series offer new content akin to adventure packs in a more regular pace then I think a lot of the problems I've had with CO will go away over time. (Granted, they really, really need to look at Crafting and loot from a ground up perspective and revamp that entire system but I think the story elements are more important.)

 

As to how the IP was adapted for the online game I think a lot of what happened there was to make the game more approachable. That is to say Champions, prior to Cryptic, did a good job of playing off and twisting perceptions of tropes and superhero cliches. Cryptic seemed to want these tropes and cliches so that people not familiar with the Champions Lore could more easily identify the setting. Unfortunately this had the effect of dumbing down the setting in a lot of weird ways and making some things almost cartoon like in their unexpected silliness.

 

This is where my praise of the adventure packs comes back in. One thing we've seen with Demon Flame and Snakes Lantern is the ability to develop Champion Lore in an a way everyone can follow. (Fast cut scenes and lots of violence.) While I haven't played Resistance yet, I expect more of the same from this.

[RexMundi]

Re: Atari unloading Cryptic Studios

 

I plan on giving them a couple of more weeks to see if the lag issues I've been having lately go away (Lag Issues there were not there a few patches ago).....if they do, I may give them another shot, see what's what. It needs a LOT of work though. Work it shouldn't have needed in the first place so, perhaps the boot out the Atari door will shake a few things lose.

 

~Rex

[JamesG]

Re: Atari unloading Cryptic Studios

 

Champions Online is finally coming to a point where you don't have to play through everything to level.

 

You have not had to play everything to level in quite some time. I skipped big junks of Canada after the upper 20s, all of Lemuria other than the Crisis, and left Monster Isle for Vibora Bay in the upper-mid 30s. And still I hit level 40 before finishing all of the V. Bay missions. Also this character didn't play through the Adventure Packs and only did moderate amounts of PvP so there wasn't a lot of XP gain via those routes either.

 

I wouldn't mind seeing more alternate leveling paths, but to say that there isn't more than enough content to easily reach the level cap isn't being accurate.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: Atari unloading Cryptic Studios

 

Over on the Champions Online discussion forums, the Resistance adventure pack seems to be receiving near-universal near-rave reviews, which is encouraging. It also sounds like an interesting development of the Champions Universe IP, with repercussions that us longtime PnP game fans may come to appreciate.

[Certified]

Re: Atari unloading Cryptic Studios

 

Over on the Champions Online discussion forums' date=' the Resistance adventure pack seems to be receiving near-universal near-rave reviews, which is encouraging. It also sounds like an interesting development of the Champions Universe IP, with repercussions that us longtime PnP game fans may come to appreciate. [/quote']

 

Well, that settles it, tonight I'm going in for a Resistance Run.

[gojira]

Re: Atari unloading Cryptic Studios

 

Have no fear' date=' Cryptic owes us nothing but the odd bits of free art they occasionally generate. DOJ is in no danger here. We still have many friends over there, though, and certainly hope everything works out well for them. dw[/quote']

 

Yeah, I have nothing against Cryptic personally. I'm disappointed in the product they put out. And that really never seemed like their fault, they just didn't have the resources -- time and money -- to do a decent job of it. So they tried being "fast" and rolled the dice. Sometimes new ideas work, and sometimes they don't. There's not always a lot one can do about these things.

 

My biggest concern would be for the jobs of the folks still there. It almost seems forgone that some personnel cuts will be made, at least if the loss ratios are correct. The best I think that could happen is each of the properties would be sold off to someone who wants to make a go at growing the business. Worst case: asset sale, including servers and office furniture.

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: Atari unloading Cryptic Studios

 

Yeah, I'm with Gojira here. If the content had been more compelling, I'd have considered CO. But I'm really not into paying for fetch-quests and escort missions.

Sorry, give me some ACTUAL champions type gaming and I might consider it.

[Enforcer84]

Re: Atari unloading Cryptic Studios

 

Yeah, I'm with Gojira here. If the content had been more compelling, I'd have considered CO. But I'm really not into paying for fetch-quests and escort missions.

Sorry, give me some ACTUAL champions type gaming and I might consider it.

 

How do you do that with an online multiplayer game? Has any game ever even come close?

[RexMundi]

Re: Atari unloading Cryptic Studios

 

Yeah, I'm with Gojira here. If the content had been more compelling, I'd have considered CO. But I'm really not into paying for fetch-quests and escort missions.

Sorry, give me some ACTUAL champions type gaming and I might consider it.

 

Pretty much the formula of any Computer MMO or MMO/RPG or RPG. Talk to A, Go to B, Do C, Return to A get reward and then Head out to go Talk to D. Besides with the f2p stuff, you don't have to pay to run around and pound on villains and escourt folks to saftey. Heck if you want to hit up the adventure packs you can even buy into those individually for the cost of a McDonalds Combo meal.

 

Unless they were going to get full time Game Masters to sit in the game and run stuff for folks, like the DM client set up in Never Winter Nights for example, all you will ever get, is the Above Formula. Maybe a bit of Collect part 1, mate it with part's two and three, sell result 4 to a noob. *shrug*

 

That's the pretty much any MMO in a nutshell. Hence the LCD factor, though to give Cryptic a bit of credit, the Adventure Pack material does advance forward from that a bit, more then a bit for Resistance.

 

~Rex

[Enforcer84]

Re: Atari unloading Cryptic Studios

 

Pretty much the formula of any Computer MMO or MMO/RPG or RPG. Talk to A, Go to B, Do C, Return to A get reward and then Head out to go Talk to D. Besides with the f2p stuff, you don't have to pay to run around and pound on villains and escourt folks to saftey. Heck if you want to hit up the adventure packs you can even buy into those individually for the cost of a McDonalds Combo meal.

 

Unless they were going to get full time Game Masters to sit in the game and run stuff for folks, like the DM client set up in Never Winter Nights for example, all you will ever get, is the Above Formula. Maybe a bit of Collect part 1, mate it with part's two and three, sell result 4 to a noob. *shrug*

 

That's the pretty much any MMO in a nutshell. Hence the LCD factor, though to give Cryptic a bit of credit, the Adventure Pack material does advance forward from that a bit, more then a bit for Resistance.

 

~Rex

 

Resistance looks interesting, I was amused that their Clark Griswold (Vacation Movies, Chevy Chase's character) would play a major role. But it also looks like the Mirror verse from City of Heroes. Yeah, it's a classic bit of Superheroics...but...not exactly innovative.

 

My biggest sticking point with CO is redesigns I don't care for and their pop culture references can seem more forced than funny.(for instance I thought their Chinese sorcerer master villain was something of a derogatory stereo type rather than threatening.)

[Certified]

Re: Atari unloading Cryptic Studios

 

Pretty much the formula of any Computer MMO or MMO/RPG or RPG. Talk to A, Go to B, Do C, Return to A get reward and then Head out to go Talk to D. Besides with the f2p stuff, you don't have to pay to run around and pound on villains and escourt folks to saftey. Heck if you want to hit up the adventure packs you can even buy into those individually for the cost of a McDonalds Combo meal.

 

Unless they were going to get full time Game Masters to sit in the game and run stuff for folks, like the DM client set up in Never Winter Nights for example, all you will ever get, is the Above Formula. Maybe a bit of Collect part 1, mate it with part's two and three, sell result 4 to a noob. *shrug*

 

That's the pretty much any MMO in a nutshell. Hence the LCD factor, though to give Cryptic a bit of credit, the Adventure Pack material does advance forward from that a bit, more then a bit for Resistance.

 

~Rex

 

When you say LCD you mean Lowest Common Denominator yes?

 

While I just put up a review of Resistance I'd like to comment on mission structure and MMOs. Part of the problem a lot of different games have is they think by changing what your chasing it becomes a new type of mission. In Champions Online its not like there's a difference between collecting 20 pieces of evidence from the Westside gangs and 20 other bobbles from members of PSI a few levels later. What does make a difference is everything else going on around you at the time and this is where Resistance shines.

 

There are three instances where you have to defend an area or NPC within the span of the four hours it took to complete the Adventure Pack. However, each of them felt radically different and had very different circumstances around them. In two of the three you're even fighting the same type of foe, yet it still comes off as compelling as everything else surrounding this stock mission formula is very different.

 

To say that in a different way, unlike in other missions where you read the story at the beginning and end of each mission Resistance does a good job of making you feel like you're part of the story and that your actions matter. While this is something any game should do, very few MMOs achieve any real level of immersion. Possibly because most of this need to make the content accessible, and very likely due to time constraints.

 

Hopefully, this is a sign of things to come from Champions Online.

 

Lastly, as to the GM running missions for you like in Neverwinter Nights there has been talk on the Champions Online forums about incorporating something like Star Trek Online's Foundry which allows players to create content. This takes things a step beyond what we saw in Cety of Heroes where the content was all "virtual" STO's Foundry allows player generated content to be assigned to established mission contacts. Looking at that from a Champions Online sense even if the player generated content was only available though Socrates that would be huge. (Then again in a perfect world, there would hopefully be a way to screen content so only best get published out this way.)

[RexMundi]

Re: Atari unloading Cryptic Studios

 

Yeah I'd be down for a Foundry kind of set up. Almost went the STO line for a bit but being a long term Star Fleet Battles guys the things like, "This weapon has a range of What?!" and "Dogfighting with Ships of the Line" and the Cryptified changes and such....... I still point at STO and go "If it weren't for THAT, CO would actually be better....."

 

I think back in another CO thread player generated content was brought up a few times. Still, like I said, if they keep on the path pointed at by Resistance they may make strides forward in their Story issues, but the crappy game engine and other "mechanical" issues, dunno how much you can patch to perfection that which should not have needed a patch to begin with if the job had been done right in the first place.

 

~Rex

[VR Dragon]

Re: Atari unloading Cryptic Studios

 

I was wondering, if Cryptic is having some kind of problems and stuff and someone else buys them... Do they then Own the Rights and stuff to our beloved PnP game stuff that you have worked hard on for years? Or do you have some kind of iron clad thing that says "Sorry we owe this, but you can use it." ?

[Starcloud]

Re: Atari unloading Cryptic Studios

 

There's a licensing agreement in place as part of the sale of the Champions IP to Cryptic, as I understand it. Cryptic owns the rights, but there may/should be a reversion clause, and/or a perpetual license agreement that allows Hero Games to keep printing/creating Hero system material for the Champions universe.

[RexMundi]

Re: Atari unloading Cryptic Studios

 

Yeah I coulda sworn the DOJ guys posted something somewhere about that..... Does make me wonder if they can just cut it loose, and just make Super Hero or not, heh.

 

~Rex

[BobGreenwade]

Re: Atari unloading Cryptic Studios

 

Well, they wouldn't be able to make Super Hero; that phrase is jointly Trademarked by Marvel and DC. But they could probably come up with some other appropriate title.

 

There is a perpetual license agreement in place; Steve said as much when the sale to Cryptic was announced. I do hope there's a reversion clause, though the way I read things it's not really an issue in the current situation.

[Guest Celt]

Re: Atari unloading Cryptic Studios

 

As I was concerned what might happen if CO became abandonware, I asked Darren Watts at Dreamation what would happen if DoJ stopped receiving feedback for approval of new material. He said (and I paraphrase) that there were failsafe deadlines for feedback. Still I hope CO continues. I don't play often but enjoy logging in now and again.