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Mickael

Breakable vs. unbreakable Focus

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Hi!

 

In 6E1, under the rules for the Focus limitations, there is an explanation about breakable and unbreakable focuses. It is said that the limitation value is the same, because both solutions have advantages and drawbacks that compensate.

 

I can't see what are the drawbacks for an unbreakable focus that make it cost the same as a breakable one...

 

Have you some ideas on the question?

 

Mickael

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Re: Breakable vs. unbreakable Focus

 

The game rules recommend defining some rare or difficult means by which an Unbreakable Focus may be damaged or destroyed. In games I run I let my players know that choosing such a Focus means it will be damaged at some point during the campaign. While what follows after that isn't specifically described in the rules, in fictional source material, such extraordinary objects -- superhero weapons, divine artifacts, technology from ancient aliens, and the like -- are extremely difficult to repair or replace if they are damaged, usually requiring a challenging adventure or quest to find the means to do so (which is how I handle the situation). OTOH in my games most Breakable Foci are either relatively common objects, such as guns, or something a Player Character has the means to repair or replace himself.

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Re: Breakable vs. unbreakable Focus

 

I can't see what are the drawbacks for an unbreakable focus that make it cost the same as a breakable one...

When it gets taken away from you and used against you you might be able to think of one.

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Re: Breakable vs. unbreakable Focus

 

If it is taken from you' date=' you can't get the people who made it to make another. The only choice is to get it back.[/quote']

 

Good point, in fiction such items are usually unique or very rare.

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Re: Breakable vs. unbreakable Focus

 

When it gets taken away from you and used against you you might be able to think of one.

What if it is not Universal? What if this stone only works when attuned to you? This is a general problem of universal foci, not something special about unbreakable ones.

 

Overall the one example of the effect that "still can damage it" is more on the "plot device" level, than "reasonably common"-level.

Had some thought about it:

Asuming you don't plan on using the items Kryptonite anytime, you could just take make it 1/4 less limitation. That way even the unbreakable OIF is worth something (-1/4), but since the way it can be affected is effectively reduced to "can be stolen outside of battle, when the target sleeps or is K.O." that still less than a normal OIF (that can be damaged in combat anytime).

 

Overall, the best security for your power is to not take a focus at all and just make it a SFX, so you should always check if that isn't what the player really want's.

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Re: Breakable vs. unbreakable Focus

 

Yes, unbreakable foci are just better than breakable ones and cost the same. This is a problem but a very minor one. Usually the GM can handle it by either not allowing it, increasing the amount of time the focus is taken away or neutrilized, or making unbreakable an advantage.

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Re: Breakable vs. unbreakable Focus

 

Im sure it states somewhere, that breakable foci whether broken or stolen (unless bought with further Limitations) can be replaced when returned to base or at least between adventures. Whereas unbreakable foci can't be.

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Re: Breakable vs. unbreakable Focus

 

Im sure it states somewhere' date=' that breakable foci whether broken or stolen (unless bought with further Limitations) can be replaced when returned to base or at least between adventures. Whereas unbreakable foci can't be.[/quote']

That's the odd part: I does not.

the text remotely implies that unbreakable foci are harder to reaquire. But a similar text is given for breakable foci and being in the wrong era/epoch/far away from home - so reaquirering a breakable focus is only a problem if the plot demans it, the same way breaking an unbreakable focus is only a problem if the plot demands it.

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Re: Breakable vs. unbreakable Focus

 

Im sure it states somewhere' date=' that breakable foci whether broken or stolen (unless bought with further Limitations) can be replaced when returned to base or at least between adventures. Whereas unbreakable foci can't be.[/quote']

 

I think that was the case in previous editions, and probably still ought to be if it's not now.

 

The idea, I think, is that breakable is makeable, and fixable. If it's unbreakable, you can't just cobble a new one up if it's taken away.

 

Taking away a focus and making them chase after it is a great way to motivate players. Even, I've noticed, if the player only has 3 real points invested.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

And an unbreakable palindromedary

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Re: Breakable vs. unbreakable Focus

 

It's never actually been an issue in games I've been in or run; But if it were going to become an issue or sticking point - here's how I would deal with it.

 

Couple Durability and Applicability.

 

If the Focus is Unbreakable it is also always Personal. Your friends cannot make it work, you cannot hand out the handgun, or whatever.

If the Focus is Breakable it is also always Universal.

 

Even then I'm sure someone can think of issues/concerns (someone always can). But aside from specifically noting a Focus is Fragile - the Durability of a Focus has never come into play that I can remember.

 

Edit: Upon reflection - IF this is going to be a point in the campaign and come up more than rarely I would adjust things as so:

Unbreakable Focus - a 1/4 less Limitation

Fragile Focus - a 1/4 more Limitation

Default of Breakable Focus with Standard Durability.

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Re: Breakable vs. unbreakable Focus

 

I'd have as it was with previous editions (as noted above) but allow Breakable Foci which are almost impossible to replace be +1/4 more Limitaion for Durable and +1/2 more Limitation if Fragile.

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Re: Breakable vs. unbreakable Focus

 

I would rule that a breakable Foci is breakable quite easy in combat. But can be replaced inbetween combats with a reasonable downtime in the game depending on what it is.

 

Unbreakable will be only breakable by a special event. In that case it is most probably a plot type event so will take considerable time in plot to get it replaced or repaired.

 

It costs the same. It can be removed the same and if the breakable is broken you have to spend a short time to get it back. Unbreakable is broken you are in big trouble and you may have to do without it for a long while.

 

But it will all depend on the Foci and its back story.

 

Unbreakable power armour / gun, no probably not.

 

Unbreakable magic amulet that controls fire? Probably yes but is the breaking point being the subject of intense heat beyond what it can control or intense cold which it does not like? That will be secret, possibly hinted at but may happen in the game plot.

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Re: Breakable vs. unbreakable Focus

 

To lose a unbreakable focus is careless!!!!! ;)

 

How about a long piece a thread attached to it so you can follow it / find out where it has gone?

 

Tracking device inbuilt (teleport focus for clarsentience, electronic tag)?

 

Or possible insurance policy? You pay what ever currency to insurance company or very powerful demons / devlis (any difference ;)) dependingon your campaign to get them back if they are lost,

 

I would take the stolen foci as a plot thing as well.

 

Seriously.

 

Thats the problem with having Foci linked powers. If you put too much into Foci that can be taken away it is a lot cheaper cost wise but you lose a lot when it goes (Big gun / magical staff = get rid of it and he / she is powerless).

 

Possibly a player / GM discussion should take place into what happens if you lose your unbreakable foci. Do you need to do a quest / special thing to get it back? Find a replacement and that becomes your new Foci?

 

If it costs the same over the life of the foci the loss of powers in game time should be similar.

 

Breakable ones get broken and easily replaced = not as breakable but harder to replace.

 

If a game involves a disbalance of one or the other change the foci to the safer one by story thread (or next character as your character leaves and replaced with a new one as they are powerless).

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Re: Breakable vs. unbreakable Focus

 

To lose a unbreakable focus is careless!!!!! ;)

 

How about a long piece a thread attached to it so you can follow it / find out where it has gone?

 

Tracking device inbuilt (teleport focus for clarsentience, electronic tag)?

 

Or possible insurance policy? You pay what ever currency to insurance company or very powerful demons / devlis (any difference ;)) dependingon your campaign to get them back if they are lost,

I just had an interesting question concerning the matter of loosing/regaining it: How would you build a Detect, with the sole Purpose of Finding the Unbreakable Focus?

 

I thought about adopting the Mechanic for "Bump of direction" ("Detect Direction (Passive)") and making a simple 3 point detect ("Detect Direction to your unbreakable Focus (Passive)").

But what do you think how expensive that should be?

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Re: Breakable vs. unbreakable Focus

 

Thanks all for your answers!

 

I just had an interesting question concerning the matter of loosing/regaining it: How would you build a Detect, with the sole Purpose of Finding the Unbreakable Focus?

 

The problem is that then the focus is easier to get back, so the limitation is less limitating...

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Re: Breakable vs. unbreakable Focus

 

Thanks all for your answers!

 

 

 

The problem is that then the focus is easier to get back, so the limitation is less limitating...

 

Paying points to make a limitation less limiting is appropriate. Whether the point cost fits is not clear, but the basic concept is fair enough.

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Re: Breakable vs. unbreakable Focus

 

I'd think you'd need to add enough range on the Detect to reach wherever the focus is taken, though. If you want to be able to use it to track down a focus that's stolen and then put on a trans-oceanic flight (or MegaScale teleported, or whatever), that could end up costing a lot of points.

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Re: Breakable vs. unbreakable Focus

 

I'd think you'd need to add enough range on the Detect to reach wherever the focus is taken' date=' though. If you want to be able to use it to track down a focus that's stolen and then put on a trans-oceanic flight (or MegaScale teleported, or whatever), that could end up costing a lot of points.[/quote']

I don't think it needs that. Neither do I think a Skill roll is nessesary.

 

Reasoning for that:

A lot of the Talents are build as Detect (even less than a small group of things), inlcuding "Bump of direction", and none requires a roll. "Direction to Universal Focus" is a more limited version of "bump of direction", since it does not tell you were north is, but only the direction of the single focus. Plus the fact that you will have to Focus on your person most of the time, so this power won't help you in any way then.

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