Michael Hopcroft Posted June 19, 2011 Report Share Posted June 19, 2011 I'm sure you've all seen the Old Republic trailer by now. (If not, here it is again.) And one thing struck me about it. This is thousands of years, apparently, before the trilogy. Yet the technology is exactly the same, if not even a little more advanced. The beam weapons of the Trilogy did not have nearly that much firepower in portable form. The design of the lightsaber seems more advanced here than it is in the trilogy. And in the other trailer ships behave no differently than they do in the original. Which makes me think about what it means when a galaxy-spanning civilization makes no major, game-changing technological advances in the course of hundreds or thousands of years. And it bothers me a little bit. Applying logic to the Star Wars saga is, of course, pretty much a lost cause. But don't they have any inventors? Any scientists or technicians? OR is everyone so interested in the metaphysics of the Force that the most intellectual people in the Republic ignore science? Makes me wonder how the Republic could even have been founded, how star travel could have developed, and what led them to that point -- there was at some time substantial innovation, and then suddenly virtually all innovation ceased for centuries. How? Why? What is everyone so afraid of? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeropoint Posted June 19, 2011 Report Share Posted June 19, 2011 Re: Star Wars: Technological Stagnation? I also have to wonder, if they know that they'll be up against Jedi, why don't they bring some sort of shotgun or flechette gun. Actually, the ideal anti-jedi weapon would be a fragmentation round, either proximity fused, or set to explode when it reaches the target range. Also include a sensor that can detect when the casing is cut and detonate then. Something like this could be built with early 21st century technology, so it should be EASY in the Star Wars 'verse (indeed, we already HAVE similar weapons). It would also have general combat utility, so you wouldn't be forcing someone to lug around a Jedi-specific weapon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burrito Boy Posted June 19, 2011 Report Share Posted June 19, 2011 Re: Star Wars: Technological Stagnation? On the subject of applying logic to Star Wars...ooh, lasers!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf Posted June 19, 2011 Report Share Posted June 19, 2011 Re: Star Wars: Technological Stagnation? I think I even saw a folding "holdout" lazer Gatling gun in this preview: Yah, I don't think anything but "the rule of cool" is wholeheartedly applied to SW... (uh... ignoring the prequels, lol) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmjalund Posted June 19, 2011 Report Share Posted June 19, 2011 Re: Star Wars: Technological Stagnation? I see once everything that can be invented has been invented, what technology is remembered is what is useful and pragmatic at any given era. Tech that does not have a use, often gets forgotten. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enforcer84 Posted June 19, 2011 Report Share Posted June 19, 2011 Re: Star Wars: Technological Stagnation? I'm sure you've all seen the Old Republic trailer by now. (If not, here it is again.) And one thing struck me about it. This is thousands of years, apparently, before the trilogy. Yet the technology is exactly the same, if not even a little more advanced. The beam weapons of the Trilogy did not have nearly that much firepower in portable form. The design of the lightsaber seems more advanced here than it is in the trilogy. And in the other trailer ships behave no differently than they do in the original. Which makes me think about what it means when a galaxy-spanning civilization makes no major, game-changing technological advances in the course of hundreds or thousands of years. And it bothers me a little bit. Applying logic to the Star Wars saga is, of course, pretty much a lost cause. But don't they have any inventors? Any scientists or technicians? OR is everyone so interested in the metaphysics of the Force that the most intellectual people in the Republic ignore science? Makes me wonder how the Republic could even have been founded, how star travel could have developed, and what led them to that point -- there was at some time substantial innovation, and then suddenly virtually all innovation ceased for centuries. How? Why? What is everyone so afraid of? It would be aesthetically different and they're working backwards. Why bother justifying it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Liaden Posted June 19, 2011 Report Share Posted June 19, 2011 Re: Star Wars: Technological Stagnation? In a lot of ways Star Wars is fantasy in space. Practically speaking, light sabers and Force powers stand in for enchanted swords and magic spells. Within that context "progress" doesn't need to be a concept for the trilogy's universe to concern itself with. Technology is merely an enabling device to advance the story, and to Look Cool. Come to think of it, earlier eras being more advanced and powerful, because some of the knowledge and glory of the past has been lost, is actually a common trope of much High Fantasy fiction. So it's sort of "in genre" for the SW style. Even the prequel trilogy seems to feature elements of that, if partly because film SFX have become more sophisticated: jedi powers and fighting moves are more spectacular; starships are sleeker-looking; we have whole armies of autonomous combat droids, and four-armed cyborgs capable of incredible movement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted June 19, 2011 Report Share Posted June 19, 2011 Re: Star Wars: Technological Stagnation? In a lot of ways Star Wars is fantasy in space. Practically speaking' date=' light sabers and Force powers stand in for enchanted swords and magic spells. Within that context "progress" doesn't need to be a concept for the trilogy's universe to concern itself with. Technology is merely an enabling device to advance the story, and to Look Cool.[/quote'] That it's mostly. Star Wars is not SciFi. It's Fantasy. George Lucas is sometime queted as having it described as "a modern fairy tale". I mean, we have jedi knights, planetary princesses, Dark Jedi Knights. Evil Empires. Witches of Dathomir. And the Rancor is basically the Dragon. Come to think of it' date=' earlier eras being more advanced and powerful, because some of the knowledge and glory of the past has been lost, is actually a common trope of much High Fantasy fiction. So it's sort of "in genre" for the SW style. Even the prequel trilogy seems to feature elements of that, if partly because film SFX have become more sophisticated: jedi powers and fighting moves are more spectacular; starships are sleeker-looking; we have whole armies of autonomous combat droids, and four-armed cyborgs capable of incredible movement.[/quote'] That the technolgy does not develop, is not so true actually: - These old driodicas are slower moving, have two slow firing guns and no shields. - the ships are entire scales smaller. They are perhaps 150 Meters. A Normal Star Destroyer is around 1600 Meters. the SSD around 13 kilometers. Sounds similar to our development in seafaring, over the last 1000 Years. - as weapons develop, so does armor and shielding. Who says those EP 1-3 jedi robes or Federation Droid armors haven't the potential to absord the entire firepower of a 1000 Year old Blaster? And a modern Blaster is need to even endanger the them? Then I think most energy goes into Armor Piercing, so that explains why nonbody disintegrates. And those old ships armors could be like Wooden Planks to modern weapons. - about frag grenades vs. Jedi: We have seen how good/bad that worked in the trailer. Telekinesis is not to be underestimated as defense. Also, they know what you are about to do, sometimes before you know it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Mackinder Posted June 19, 2011 Report Share Posted June 19, 2011 Re: Star Wars: Technological Stagnation? Midichlorian-eating nanotech. Just spray or dust an area, then sit back and wait. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted June 19, 2011 Report Share Posted June 19, 2011 Re: Star Wars: Technological Stagnation? Midichlorian-eating nanotech. Just spray or dust an area' date=' then sit back and wait.[/quote'] You seem to forget that every living being contain Midichlorians. The Jedi just have a lot more of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markdoc Posted June 19, 2011 Report Share Posted June 19, 2011 Re: Star Wars: Technological Stagnation? Dude, it's Star Wars. The place where spacecraft fly like they're maneuvering on wings and make "vroom, vroom" sounds in vaccuum. The place where you can transfer psychic awareness in a bag of blood. The technology is the same because otherwise it wouldn't look "star wars-y". That's it. That's your answer right there. I seriously doubt that the concept of "what does it mean that technology isn't evolving?" came up at even one focus group. Watching people trying to apply logic to the Star Wars Universe is like watching a blind man on a speeding bus trying to eat jello with a katana. cheers, Mark Edit: One thing has definitely changed though - that female Jedi would totally kick Yoda's ass! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Mackinder Posted June 19, 2011 Report Share Posted June 19, 2011 Re: Star Wars: Technological Stagnation? You seem to forget that every living being contain Midichlorians. The Jedi just have a lot more of them. So, it doesn't have to completely eradicate them, just .... thin 'em out some. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted June 19, 2011 Report Share Posted June 19, 2011 Re: Star Wars: Technological Stagnation? So' date=' it doesn't have to completely eradicate them, just .... thin 'em out some.[/quote'] But in order to coordinate this for ony body, the nanites have to be linked. And such a link is always attackable. Also, it was so far not shown that in this "Far, far away" galaxy nano tech even exists. And Jedi are know to be able to detoxify themself, I doubt those machines will fare better. But I am certain some Autor has or will implement a "Force Eating Virus" that attacks Midichlorians. At first it only weakens Jedi, but in the end it attacks and kills every life form (perhaps except for those immune to the force). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clonus Posted June 19, 2011 Report Share Posted June 19, 2011 Re: Star Wars: Technological Stagnation? And one thing struck me about it. This is thousands of years, apparently, before the trilogy. Yet the technology is exactly the same, if not even a little more advanced. The beam weapons of the Trilogy did not have nearly that much firepower in portable form. The design of the lightsaber seems more advanced here than it is in the trilogy. And in the other trailer ships behave no differently than they do in the original. In order my thoughts are. 1. The fact that they keep referring to the video game universe as the "Old Republic" may indicate that this is a polity which eventually collapsed into low tech barbarism and had to rebuild and the claims that the Republic has lasted for thousands of years are just so much bushwah. They make it based on the claim their Republic is the same as the old Republic, so they have an absurd claimed lifespan for their civilisation for the same reason China did. No, the Chinese empire did not last for thousands of years. There were a bunch of different Chinese empires, each claiming the mantle of the previous one. While in fact it's implausible that an interstellar culture could technologically backslide all that much all over the place, the Long Night is a classic old school science fiction gimmick. 2. Just because we never see squad support weapons in the Trilogy doesn't mean they aren't there. The only pitched infantry battle we saw was against Ewoks where lots of damage dice is beside the point. 3. The galaxy as depicted in the six movies is supposed to be stagnant, in a Spenglerian final state much like the Empire of the Foundation series which had also stopped innovating and had abandoned the scientific method in favour of mere scholarship. Spengler's model of the rise and fall of civilisations is now discredited but it was popular in the 50s and 60s of science fiction which this universe hearkens back to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wcw43921 Posted June 19, 2011 Report Share Posted June 19, 2011 Re: Star Wars: Technological Stagnation? I also have to wonder, if they know that they'll be up against Jedi, why don't they bring some sort of shotgun or flechette gun. Actually, the ideal anti-jedi weapon would be a fragmentation round, either proximity fused, or set to explode when it reaches the target range. Also include a sensor that can detect when the casing is cut and detonate then. Something like this could be built with early 21st century technology, so it should be EASY in the Star Wars 'verse (indeed, we already HAVE similar weapons). It would also have general combat utility, so you wouldn't be forcing someone to lug around a Jedi-specific weapon. Christopher said it--telekinesis. Use a slugthrower against a Jedi and he pulls a Neo (Sith Lords would pull a Sylar) and stops the bullets in midair. Use an explosive and he either sends it back to the firer or wraps it in a "blanket" of Force energy to suppress the blast. (A really powerful Force sensitive could even suppress the explosive reaction at the molecular level.) I think I've said it before, but the only thing that could stop a Jedi is weight of numbers. We saw this in Attack Of The Clones in the scene at the Geonosis battle arena, and in Revenge Of The Sith in the Order 66 scenes. So if you're going to fight a Jedi, bring your friends. All of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escafarc Posted June 19, 2011 Report Share Posted June 19, 2011 Re: Star Wars: Technological Stagnation? That it's mostly. Star Wars is not SciFi. It's Fantasy. George Lucas is sometime queted as having it described as "a modern fairy tale". I mean' date=' we have jedi [b']knights[/b], planetary princesses, Dark Jedi Knights. Evil Empires. Witches of Dathomir. And the Rancor is basically the Dragon. I'd go further and say it's a Sinbad the Sailor movie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted June 19, 2011 Report Share Posted June 19, 2011 Re: Star Wars: Technological Stagnation? I think I've said it before' date=' but the only thing that could stop a Jedi is weight of numbers. We saw this in [i']Attack Of The Clones[/i] in the scene at the Geonosis battle arena, and in Revenge Of The Sith in the Order 66 scenes. So if you're going to fight a Jedi, bring your friends. All of them. And suprise them (wich acording to some sources required the force to be clouded by the war and that the troopers only "did their job" and didn't hate them). That may not be entirely the point, but I noticed that the most recent interpretations of star wars are all "stuck" in the past: - We had Knights of the Old Republic 1+2 - We have Clone wars, the cartoon (wich is creating new storylines/new characters by the dozen per Season, so it won't be over soon) - Now the Old Republic MMO Almost seem as if the Future beyond Season 6 has nothing of interest for Gamedesigners/popular media (wich is bad, most of the expanded universe is cool stuff and really good stories). Anyway, I think as long as they stay back there, we will be seeing jet another earlier period with mostly similar tech. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmjalund Posted June 20, 2011 Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 Re: Star Wars: Technological Stagnation? They have Legacy era Star Wars supplements, which deal with the Comic Universe, which is approx 100 years after starwars movies' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tasha Posted June 20, 2011 Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 Re: Star Wars: Technological Stagnation? Knights of the Old Republic I deals with some Sith Technology that was lost to the Old Republic that a New Sith Lord found. I think that what happens is that the many wars tend to flatten cities and screw up the Technology base. Leaving the survivors to rebuild everything and rediscover things. Heck, even the Jedi and Sith have lost knowledge in the many wars. Which is why Holocron finds can be so important. I believe that the Old Republic Period is actually Higher Tech than the ep 1-6 period and of course they have Jedi and Sith Knowledge that wasn't destroyed by foes. Even though this is a high tech period, I believe that they lost some tech during the Mandalorian wars that took place before the Old Republic games. I think that Boba Fett uses that old Mandalorian armor because it's so much better than anything else available in the New Republic/Empire era. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sociotard Posted June 20, 2011 Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 Re: Star Wars: Technological Stagnation? In David Brin's Uplift series it is dogma that fundamental science is done. You can do creative design, sure, but all the tech breakthroughs have already been made. I suppose it could be something similar here. For that matter, there are cases on earth where technology regresses. In some fields it is happening right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Mackinder Posted June 20, 2011 Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 Re: Star Wars: Technological Stagnation? I think I've said it before' date=' but the only thing that could stop a Jedi is weight of numbers. We saw this in [i']Attack Of The Clones[/i] in the scene at the Geonosis battle arena, and in Revenge Of The Sith in the Order 66 scenes. So if you're going to fight a Jedi, bring your friends. All of them. Perhaps, but "Nuke From Orbit" could be a viable option under the right circumstances. Consider. If our Jedi is in a fairly well-defined area (like a planet, city or portions thereof), the classic (bonehead) move of any opposition is to send in the troops. What this tends to mean is that, Force willing, the Jedi gets to decimate said forces and quickly acquire transport. How many times do we see that sort of thing happen in the Clone Wars? Lots. So, nuke the area without sending in troops. If that seems way too extreme, send in a few troops if you really must - but it is a one-way trip for them WHATEVER happens (you don't tell them that, of course, but if you see them coming back, they are gone). If you lose contact with them for any reason whatsoever, nuke their locale immediately. Repeat if necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted June 20, 2011 Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 Re: Star Wars: Technological Stagnation? Perhaps' date=' but "Nuke From Orbit" could be a viable option under the right circumstances.[/quote'] The problem is that the circumstances are rarely, if ever, right. There are a few fractions willing to destroy their targets citys/resources (like the sith did several times), but overall orbital bombardment is a waste of energy and will cause more harm then use. Mostly, war is about conquering the target intact. It's about aquiring the new resuorces, markets, population, military bases, etc... as intact as possible. Otherwise you have to pay for your losses and to get the place up an running like it used to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmjalund Posted June 20, 2011 Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 Re: Star Wars: Technological Stagnation? when was the last time you heard anyone in any starwars mention nukes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Escafarc Posted June 20, 2011 Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 Re: Star Wars: Technological Stagnation? when was the last time you heard anyone in any starwars mention nukes? Ronald Reagan? According to Wookieepedia: Nuke was the name of the pet miniature Dwarf bantha owned by Pookie and Ebenn Q3 Baobab. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clonus Posted June 20, 2011 Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 Re: Star Wars: Technological Stagnation? And suprise them (wich acording to some sources required the force to be clouded by the war and that the troopers only "did their job" and didn't hate them). That may not be entirely the point, but I noticed that the most recent interpretations of star wars are all "stuck" in the past: . Because the past has the Sith. They don't want to do without Sith, but they don't want to undo the victory at the end of the movies either. Although actually the "Old Republic" games could be considered to take place in a parallel universe anyway which makes the question moot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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