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Just saw 6th Edition and got a chance to leaf through it...


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Re: Just saw 6th Edition and got a chance to leaf through it...

 

Not certain. Steve Long never answers question about his game design.

 

Some say it is bcause it works for Initiative and Skills Rolls and Initiative as important as Skills are - even more than say Perception for INT, as you don't need Perception every phase.

 

But there are rules that allow you to split it into Reaction and Agility, two seperate 1 point Charactertistics.

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Re: Just saw 6th Edition and got a chance to leaf through it...

 

The pricing of DEX is an area that's seen a lot of discussion. INT, PRE and DEX all enhance a large group of skills. INT provides PER rolls, PRE provides presence attacks and presence defense, and DEX provides combat order. Unless you believe combat order is worth substantially more than PER or PRE attack/defense and/or that DEX skills are much more important than INT or PRE skills, the pricing of DEX seems excessive (or INT and PRE are too cheap).

 

From comments on the Boards since 6e was released, it seems like repricing DEX to 1 point is among the most common house rules.

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Re: Just saw 6th Edition and got a chance to leaf through it...

 

I leave it at 2. Going First = Win not to mention other benefits. I was considering dropping the cost of Speed down to around 6 or 7 points just to reflect the roughly 1/3rd drop that Dex got. Still though seems to be working just fine as is with a variable set of players in my games so may do nothing with it.

 

Played around with splitting it, negative power gamey crunchy stuff and yet another stat outweighed the potential benefits.

 

~Rex

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Re: Just saw 6th Edition and got a chance to leaf through it...

 

...and I haven't had a chance to digest it all yet.

 

The complete decoupling of figured characteristics is going to take some getting used to... and, I'm already jonesin' for an EC...

 

Why is Dex 2 points?

 

Heh. I'd been playing Champions practically since it came out, and never quite warmed up to the idea of Elemental Control.

I had JUST started regularly using them, when they were taken out.

 

You can use the Unified Power Limitation to get a cost break on Powers at the cost of them all Draining together.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary reminds me I have isomeplace to be and it's not here...

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Re: Just saw 6th Edition and got a chance to leaf through it...

 

...and I haven't had a chance to digest it all yet.

 

The complete decoupling of figured characteristics is going to take some getting used to... and, I'm already jonesin' for an EC...

 

Why is Dex 2 points?

 

Because the list of Skills that it controls is HUGE. It also is used to find the order of combat during a phase. Two huge things.

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Re: Just saw 6th Edition and got a chance to leaf through it...

 

...and I haven't had a chance to digest it all yet.

 

The complete decoupling of figured characteristics is going to take some getting used to... and, I'm already jonesin' for an EC...

 

Why is Dex 2 points?

 

Unified power is MUCH better than EC. It can be applied to any group of powers that you could conceive of being drained together. No restrictions.

 

Decoupling of Figureds will change the way people create characters. You won't see many Energy Blasters with 20-25 strength. OCV and DCV can be different values and Dex will probably also drop.

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Re: Just saw 6th Edition and got a chance to leaf through it...

 

Unified power is MUCH better than EC. It can be applied to any group of powers that you could conceive of being drained together. No restrictions.

 

Decoupling of Figureds will change the way people create characters. You won't see many Energy Blasters with 20-25 strength. OCV and DCV can be different values and Dex will probably also drop.

 

Heh, Dex Drops to a good range for non Super Agile is my Gimmick people.....though Lightning Reflexes increases in popularity. :D

 

~Rex.....happy with a lot of 6e.....the unhappy was easily houseruled with no great amount of effort required.

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Re: Just saw 6th Edition and got a chance to leaf through it...

 

~Rex.....happy with a lot of 6e.....the unhappy was easily houseruled with no great amount of effort required.

 

The hard part is figuring out what's actually unhappy and what just looks that way on paper. :)

 

Virtually,

Bodkins Odds

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Re: Just saw 6th Edition and got a chance to leaf through it...

 

Ain't that the truth... it gets used left and right. Last game I played in....In an Hour I counted 8 Dex Rolls for every 1 Int roll. Lota brainy characters on that team too.

 

~Rex

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Re: Just saw 6th Edition and got a chance to leaf through it...

 

Ain't that the truth... it gets used left and right. Last game I played in....In an Hour I counted 8 Dex Rolls for every 1 Int roll. Lota brainy characters on that team too.

You need you DEX for Initiative every phase, you can take use of one of the Agility Skills (like Breakfall) very often (even outside of your phase). But unless you use your Power Skill, there is only so much you can gain in a fight from INT(KS: The Westend Gang).

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Re: Just saw 6th Edition and got a chance to leaf through it...

 

Perception rolls' date=' Tactics, Deduction, Analyze, Demolitions....[/quote']

You can use Breakfall every time you recieve Knockback. Perception is only needed when somethign changes on the battlefield. Same with Tactics or Decdution - you only use them once for any give encounter. Analyze can be more present, if you have a power using it as Required Roll.

Demotlitions: How often do you plant a bomb in the middle of a firefight?

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Re: Just saw 6th Edition and got a chance to leaf through it...

 

You can use Breakfall every time you recieve Knockback. Perception is only needed when somethign changes on the battlefield. Same with Tactics or Decdution - you only use them once for any give encounter. Analyze can be more present, if you have a power using it as Required Roll.

Demotlitions: How often do you plant a bomb in the middle of a firefight?

 

Well, if your character is Awesome Explodo-Man (the crime fighting alter ego of Michael Bay), you may need that demolitions skill a Lot.

 

~Rex

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Re: Just saw 6th Edition and got a chance to leaf through it...

 

Well, if your character is Awesome Explodo-Man (the crime fighting alter ego of Michael Bay), you may need that demolitions skill a Lot.

 

~Rex

So specific builds - like ones with required power rolls - will use it more often. Wich is part of their build for taking a limitation, or their shtick. Still, they use DEX for initative every phase, wich is way more often then they will use their INT based skills.

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Re: Just saw 6th Edition and got a chance to leaf through it...

 

Very True. I tend to build a lot of Analyze using characters. A lot of them have multiple types of Analyze. Still, every time they use that Analyze, they end up using a dex skill as well, and then a dex skill more often once the Analyze benefits pop up.

 

Awesome Explodo Man though....is an example of a build let's say, that's just designed to prove the exception. Not the Rule.

 

~Rex

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Re: Just saw 6th Edition and got a chance to leaf through it...

 

While most INT skills may not be used too often, PER rolls are made all the time - at least as often as DEX rolls, IME. Now it might depend on the genre, but when you're dealing with invisible foes, smoke clouds and other environmental conditions, reinforcements sneaking up, people attacking you from long range, and so forth, there tend to be a lot of PER rolls. It even plays a similar roll to initiative - if you don't spot the ambush, you're not going first, no matter how high your DEX is.

 

PRE depends on whether Presence Attacks are used much (varies by GM) and whether foes with high PRE are common. In some campaigns it might be pretty optional, in others you will get trashed without it.

 

So, IMO, it would be better priced at 1:1. Now admittedly, I've mostly played modern-day or high powered stuff - it's possible that in genres like gritty fantasy it's more important.

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Re: Just saw 6th Edition and got a chance to leaf through it...

 

You can use Breakfall every time you recieve Knockback. Perception is only needed when somethign changes on the battlefield. Same with Tactics or Decdution - you only use them once for any give encounter. Analyze can be more present, if you have a power using it as Required Roll.

Demotlitions: How often do you plant a bomb in the middle of a firefight?

 

While most INT skills may not be used too often' date=' PER rolls are made all the time - at least as often as DEX rolls, IME. Now it might depend on the genre, but when you're dealing with invisible foes, smoke clouds and other environmental conditions, reinforcements sneaking up, people attacking you from long range, and so forth, there tend to be a lot of PER rolls. It even plays a similar roll to initiative - if you don't spot the ambush, you're not going first, no matter how high your DEX is. [/quote']

 

What he said! Being Flashed also makes PER rolls move front & center. Going first? That means you get one attack off before I do and then, all other things being equal, we alternate. I can Abort to Dodge and stay Dodging through your next action, then retaliate with my own move after yours. Going first is nice, but not essential for most characters. As Ice9 notes, fail your PER roll and I go first anyway.

 

And if my DEX is one higher, all the points you spent to "go first" have no benefit. If I design my character to not care about going first (or making DEX rolls, of course) then I can save quite a few points to spend on abilities that let me weather your first attack and retaliate. If I'm willing to suck up an 8 DEX, rather than the typical 23, I can buy an extra 30 STUN to weather your attack, or an extra 3 DCV to avoid them, plus an extra 2 DC's for my own attacks. Or I can buy more SPD - you move first but I move way more often!

 

PRE depends on whether Presence Attacks are used much (varies by GM) and whether foes with high PRE are common. In some campaigns it might be pretty optional' date=' in others you will get trashed without it.[/quote']

 

That high PRE can mean that higher DEX character is cowed into inaction anyway.

 

So' date=' IMO, it would be better priced at 1:1. Now admittedly, I've mostly played modern-day or high powered stuff - it's possible that in genres like gritty fantasy it's more important.[/quote']

 

IMO, they should be equal. I'm not convinced that doesn't mean INT and PRE should be 2 points, though. Then we could make both "skill/char roll only" and "ancillary benefit only" cost 5 points per +5 characteristic.

 

DEX is certainly the most combat-relevant stat, but what good does it do you if you don't make the INT skill/PER rolls to pick up the clues to know where the action will be, and can't charm the info out of the NPC's who could enlighten you?

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Re: Just saw 6th Edition and got a chance to leaf through it...

 

Can we now start to counting the minutes until Lucius makes a "Awesome Explodo Man"?

 

I tried, but failed my Demolitions roll and blew him up.

 

But see my recent thread, "Experimental Alien Martial Artist" for an example character with BOTH INT and DEX at 1 or less.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary is checking that thread to make sure I got the title right.

 

edit: http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php/86219-Experimental-Alien-Martial-Artist#post2196724

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Re: Just saw 6th Edition and got a chance to leaf through it...

 

DEX is certainly the most combat-relevant stat' date=' but what good does it do you if you don't make the INT skill/PER rolls to pick up the clues to know where the action will be, and can't charm the info out of the NPC's who could enlighten you?[/quote']

Well, perhaps the GM should not base your chances to finding the action on skills you do not posess? When your character does not has Charm, giving him only that one way to find the next phase is a bad move on the side of the GM.

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Re: Just saw 6th Edition and got a chance to leaf through it...

 

Well' date=' perhaps the GM should not base your chances to finding the action on skills you do not posess? When your character does not has Charm, giving him only that one way to find the next phase is a bad move on the side of the GM.[/quote']

 

Well perhaps the GM should not base your chances of winning a fight be based on whoever has "first strike" ability when the players don't all want to play DEX monsters who all have above average DEX despite DEXterity having nothing to do character concept...

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Re: Just saw 6th Edition and got a chance to leaf through it...

 

Well perhaps the GM should not base your chances of winning a fight be based on whoever has "first strike" ability when the players don't all want to play DEX monsters who all have above average DEX despite DEXterity having nothing to do character concept...

 

Hence, why a complete list of Everyman skills is handy. :D Much like SFX, Everyman skills are often overlooked nowadays though they are still in the book. One of the things I like about 6e is that it's actually a stronger set of rules for setting up SFX relationships to the game environment.

 

~Rex

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