Naanomi Posted July 22, 2011 Report Share Posted July 22, 2011 Re: Just saw 6th Edition and got a chance to leaf through it... Dive for Cover is based on Dex alone as well right? That alone might make it worth the points for the average type of character who is dex-heavy... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Neilson Posted July 22, 2011 Report Share Posted July 22, 2011 Re: Just saw 6th Edition and got a chance to leaf through it... Well' date=' perhaps the GM should not base your chances to finding the action on skills you do not posess? When your character does not has Charm, giving him only that one way to find the next phase is a bad move on the side of the GM.[/quote'] Well perhaps the GM should not base your chances of winning a fight be based on whoever has "first strike" ability when the players don't all want to play DEX monsters who all have above average DEX despite DEXterity having nothing to do character concept... Yup. And it's just as easy to make combat success depend, or not depend, on those DEX skills the proponents of "DEX is more valuable than INT and PRE" point at as being combat-useful. In a game or court intrigue, where combat is rare, PRE is much more valuable. Call of Cthulhu, where research up front is the means to success, INT becomes more valuable - first action means you're a full move away when the tentacle grabs you and starts dragging you back... You can certainly design games where one of the types of skills are far more valuable - but it can be any of them. With a balance of challenges, the skills are balanced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tasha Posted July 22, 2011 Report Share Posted July 22, 2011 Re: Just saw 6th Edition and got a chance to leaf through it... The Stat was costed based on what was considered an Average game that had a certain amount of RP and Combat. The System seems to still be a bit slanted toward Superheroic games and combat is a HUGE part of the typical Superheroic game. Also the second most common Genre for Hero is Fantasy. A typical Fantasy game has a ton of combat. With that in mind Dex is very important. Remember it's not just for First Strike, It effects who goes first in each segment that someone has a phase. If I am going first, I can decide to delay and see what the slower people are doing first and react to them. If I have a low dex the only reaction that I can use is Defensive, I can't move, only do the defensive action. Not going last is a very nice thing in this and every system. Yes, the System can be used to run a very RP heavy game with little to no combat. In those games Dex isn't as useful as Pre or Int. In those games characters can save a ton of points by not having bought up any of their Combat stats (which is everything ex. Int and Pre). If course running a game that is almost all RP kind of wastes most of the nice crunchyness of the system. Also, I can't imagine a game were I don't get time at least every other session to have a fun little bit of combat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted July 22, 2011 Report Share Posted July 22, 2011 Re: Just saw 6th Edition and got a chance to leaf through it... Remember it's not just for First Strike' date=' It effects who goes first in each segment that someone has a phase. If I am going first, I can decide to delay and see what the slower people are doing first and react to them. If I have a low dex the only reaction that I can use is Defensive, I can't move, only do the defensive action. Not going last is a very nice thing in this and every system.[/quote'] There are a few offensive and defensive actions that "override" the standard dex-based order for the next phase: Succesfully blocking or throwing are among them. But yes, I overall consider it very important. Just consider the chase of two SPD 5 characters, and the one with lower dex stunning the fast one. Furthermore those that do act first (high dex) are usually thsoe that need high dex, because of low defenses (wich includes higher likelyhood to be stunned). You can either weahter an AOE (at least a +1/4 for DC calculation, often +1/2 or even +1) or avoid it (Dive for cover - dex based). Yes' date=' the System can be used to run a very RP heavy game with little to no combat. In those games Dex isn't as useful as Pre or Int. In those games characters can save a ton of points by not having bought up any of their Combat stats [...'] A good point indeed. Also the GM can just change the pricing, with official sanction of Steve Long Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melessqr Posted July 22, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2011 Re: Just saw 6th Edition and got a chance to leaf through it... d00d... kind of amazing what a little 5 word question can start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RexMundi Posted July 22, 2011 Report Share Posted July 22, 2011 Re: Just saw 6th Edition and got a chance to leaf through it... Oh....just wait. You should see what results from some things. ~Rex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucius Posted July 22, 2011 Report Share Posted July 22, 2011 Re: Just saw 6th Edition and got a chance to leaf through it... d00d... kind of amazing what a little 5 word question can start. Welcome to http://www.herogames.com. Please enjoy your stay. We're glad you are here and hope you will join us as a frequent visitor. Lucius Alexander Feeding the palindromedary is permitted, but please take care lest it take a byte out of you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RexMundi Posted July 22, 2011 Report Share Posted July 22, 2011 Re: Just saw 6th Edition and got a chance to leaf through it... Does make me wonder if there is a Sheet for the Palindromedary yet.... ~Rex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucius Posted July 22, 2011 Report Share Posted July 22, 2011 Re: Just saw 6th Edition and got a chance to leaf through it... Oh....just wait. You should see what results from some things. ~Rex I still try to avoid the "I" word. Lucius Alexander The palindromedary notes that Lucius resorts to the circumlocution "the property of being immune to most physical and energy attacks, including ones such as Drains and No Normal Defense attacks" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tasha Posted July 22, 2011 Report Share Posted July 22, 2011 Re: Just saw 6th Edition and got a chance to leaf through it... d00d... kind of amazing what a little 5 word question can start. Pretty much any post will eventually dig up an old, well trod over argument with people willing to flog it for old times sake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RexMundi Posted July 22, 2011 Report Share Posted July 22, 2011 Re: Just saw 6th Edition and got a chance to leaf through it... Pretty much any post will eventually dig up an old' date=' well trod over argument with people willing to flog it for old times sake.[/quote'] Only when there are the right people to flog back and forth with. ~Rex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucius Posted July 22, 2011 Report Share Posted July 22, 2011 Re: Just saw 6th Edition and got a chance to leaf through it... Does make me wonder if there is a Sheet for the Palindromedary yet.... ~Rex Never happen. Lucius Alexander Both heads agree Palindromedary Enterprises refuses to release the license. NO PALINDROMEDARY CHARACTERS: Mind Control 25d6, Persistent (+1/4), Personal Immunity (+1/4), Area Of Effect (8m Radius; +1/2), Reduced Endurance (0 END; +1/2), Constant (+1/2), MegaScale (1m = 2,000 km; +1 3/4), Cannot alter scale (-1/4) (562 Active Points); Required Multiple Users ([99] palindromedaries; -1 3/4), OAF Arrangement (-1 1/4), Set Effect (Only to persuade the target not to attempt to create a character sheet for a palindromedary or otherwise define a palindromedary in terms that set limits on what it can do; -1), Mandatory Effect EGO +20 (Must Always Achieve [Target thinks actions are voluntary and natural:+20]; -3/4), No Range (-1/2), Incantations (Sator Arepo Tenet Opera Rotas; -1/4) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RexMundi Posted July 22, 2011 Report Share Posted July 22, 2011 Re: Just saw 6th Edition and got a chance to leaf through it... Hmmm....*starts work on the Sheet* Call me Japan. ~Rex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dude Posted July 22, 2011 Report Share Posted July 22, 2011 Re: Just saw 6th Edition and got a chance to leaf through it... d00d... kind of amazing what a little 5 word question can start. Hey, it's spelled Dude, not d00d. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RexMundi Posted July 22, 2011 Report Share Posted July 22, 2011 Re: Just saw 6th Edition and got a chance to leaf through it... Hey' date=' it's spelled Dude, not d00d.[/quote'] The Dude Abides..... ~Rex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucius Posted July 23, 2011 Report Share Posted July 23, 2011 Re: Just saw 6th Edition and got a chance to leaf through it... The Dude Abides..... ~Rex but the d00d abrades Lucius Alexander The palindromedary abets Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Neilson Posted July 23, 2011 Report Share Posted July 23, 2011 Re: Just saw 6th Edition and got a chance to leaf through it... There are a few offensive and defensive actions that "override" the standard dex-based order for the next phase: Succesfully blocking or throwing are among them. But yes, I overall consider it very important. Just consider the chase of two SPD 5 characters, and the one with lower dex stunning the fast one. Furthermore those that do act first (high dex) are usually thsoe that need high dex, because of low defenses (wich includes higher likelyhood to be stunned). You can either weahter an AOE (at least a +1/4 for DC calculation, often +1/2 or even +1) or avoid it (Dive for cover - dex based). Why would someone with low defenses need DEX? I generally see low defenses accompanied by high DCV (ie their defense is not getting hit, rather than soaking up the hits). In 5e and prior editions, high DEX was the most practical means of attaining a high DCV. In 6e, you can have a high DCV and plod along at normal human DEX, or be the world's most dextrous person and still be unable to avoid attacks. Also the GM can just change the pricing' date=' with official sanction of Steve Long [/quote'] Many discussions of this issue began with the suggestion a GM or gaming group choose to do just that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RexMundi Posted July 23, 2011 Report Share Posted July 23, 2011 Re: Just saw 6th Edition and got a chance to leaf through it... Squared off in the ring against more then a few people that could do standing back flips, walk up 12 flights of stairs on their hands, run down the top rope. Yet, they walk into that Overhand Right like it's a barn door. That kind of Breakout now (Without the cheese factor of Selling Back stuff you gained from a figured stat), is one of the things I really liked about the new system (and it does have things I dislike yet.....)...Then, add in the tool kiting and the carnage ensues. ~Rex Tool Kit = Fun Things! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nolgroth Posted July 23, 2011 Report Share Posted July 23, 2011 Re: Just saw 6th Edition and got a chance to leaf through it... .....Everyman skills are often overlooked nowadays though they are still in the book......Not on my front. I have always been a proponent of Everyman skills. In fact, my latest project is a game where Everyman skills are pretty much what the characters get. They get a few points to play with, but not enough to have a large enough spread of skills to bypass the Everyman list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RexMundi Posted July 23, 2011 Report Share Posted July 23, 2011 Re: Just saw 6th Edition and got a chance to leaf through it... Not on my front. I have always been a proponent of Everyman skills. In fact' date=' my latest project is a game where Everyman skills are pretty much what the characters get. They get a few points to play with, but not enough to have a large enough spread of skills to bypass the Everyman list.[/quote'] Was considering trying something along those lines myself again. Haven't done it yet in 6th though one of the first things I hand my players is their list of Everyman Skills and background notes based on where they are from etc etc etc .... may give that a try this week.... ~Rex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted July 23, 2011 Report Share Posted July 23, 2011 Re: Just saw 6th Edition and got a chance to leaf through it... Why would someone with low defenses need DEX? I generally see low defenses accompanied by high DCV (ie their defense is not getting hit' date=' rather than soaking up the hits).[/quote'] Read the text you quoted, please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Neilson Posted July 24, 2011 Report Share Posted July 24, 2011 Re: Just saw 6th Edition and got a chance to leaf through it... Read the text you quoted' date=' please.[/quote'] I generally read what I quote' I stand by my statement that I find characters with low defenses tend far more to high DCV's than high DEX. Dive for Cover means scrapping that DCV (prone - half DCV), blowing a phase (they need high SPD as much or more than DEX if they want to use it to dive) and still needing to guess how far to dive (need high movement). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbywolfe Posted July 24, 2011 Report Share Posted July 24, 2011 Re: Just saw 6th Edition and got a chance to leaf through it... True. Many people who harp on the how DEX is so important because of the ability to go first completely overlook the fact that being even 1 SPD above average already does that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greywind Posted July 24, 2011 Report Share Posted July 24, 2011 Re: Just saw 6th Edition and got a chance to leaf through it... ...until you run into the guy 2 SPD above the average. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucius Posted July 24, 2011 Report Share Posted July 24, 2011 Re: Just saw 6th Edition and got a chance to leaf through it... ...until you run into the guy 2 SPD above the average. At which point, how much does your higher DEX help you when the other guy still has one more phase than you do? I'd rather have SPD 6 and DEX 10 than SPD 4 and DEX 20. Lucius Alexander The palindromedary thinks the DEX are stacked Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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