Alternate Sexualities in Champions and Supers settings

[Lord Mhoram]

Re: Alternate Sexualities in Champions and Supers settings

 

Clark Kent doesn't exist to protect Superman from us, he exists to keep Superman sane and able to relate to us mere mortals.

 

However with that said, despite being born on another planet, Superman never really came across to me as repersenting being an "alien", after all he looks exactly like us and has no memories of Krypton, ect. Hell, other then some meaningless fluff the character would be the same if Papa Kent was biten by a radioactive snake and Mama Kent stumbled into a crater and had her genes twisted by the strange influence of Energy Z.

 

Actual "true aliens" remain just as scary post Superman as then were pre Superman.

 

There was an elseworlds with Jon Jonzz as one of the bad guys who said to Superman "You are like me, and Alien, an outsider..." To which Superman replied "You are an alien, I'm an adopted son" - Which I think sums up that whole issue.

[drunkonduty]

Re: Alternate Sexualities in Champions and Supers settings

 

Superman and Louis Lane... a Freudian slip phoenix? ;-)

 

And, yeah, he's not alien despite being born on another world. He's ALMOST what I'd call a first generation immigrant. Except there's that whole grew up in America's Heartland raised by good ol' Mr. and Mrs Kent thing. He's about as American as Mom and Pastrami on Rye. I consider Pastrami on Rye to be VERY American. Just as I consider immigration and the whole "melting pot" to be very American.

 

Mmm, kinda vague musings there, sorry if they confuse.

[Ravor]

Re: Alternate Sexualities in Champions and Supers settings

 

Is my memory failing me or wasn't the original "Superman" character supposed to be a Nazi villian only to be regected and revamped as the all American hero?

[Cygnia]

Re: Alternate Sexualities in Champions and Supers settings

 

Is my memory failing me or wasn't the original "Superman" character supposed to be a Nazi villian only to be regected and revamped as the all American hero?

 

I don't know about Nazi, but I heard originally Supes was going to be an evil telepath of some sort. (Which, can I get some confirmation either way? I need it for research purposes...)

[assault]

Re: Alternate Sexualities in Champions and Supers settings

 

Not a Nazi, but an evil telepath. You can read the story here.

[dmjalund]

Re: Alternate Sexualities in Champions and Supers settings

 

now he's lex luthor and braniac!

[kickback]

Re: Alternate Sexualities in Champions and Supers settings

 

Hm... If a campaign was set in classic Hell' date=' I might swing the other way. [/quote']

 

Huh?

[Mister E]

Re: Alternate Sexualities in Champions and Supers settings

 

Huh?

 

I am joking that there is less prejudice in Hell than there is in the "real" world.

[phoenix240]

Re: Alternate Sexualities in Champions and Supers settings

 

This is probably old news but I just heard about it.

 

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/entertainment/2012/05/comics-cliffhanger-as-unnamed-dc-superhero-to-come-out-of-closet/

[wrestlinggeek]

Re: Alternate Sexualities in Champions and Supers settings

 

This is probably old news but I just heard about it.

 

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/entertainment/2012/05/comics-cliffhanger-as-unnamed-dc-superhero-to-come-out-of-closet/

 

Is this about Green Lantern being gay? As long as it's not Hal Jordan, no problem. But Hal is too well-established as being a fan of the ladies (I submit Carol Ferris for your consideration). I don't know enough about John Stewart's and Guy Gardner's love lives to make a call on them. As for Kyle Rainer, I could see him being bisexual, but again, there is an established history of him having relationships with women. Or they could create an entirely new GL who happens to be gay. That works too.

[McCoy]

Re: Alternate Sexualities in Champions and Supers settings

 

Is this about Green Lantern being gay? As long as it's not Hal Jordan' date=' no problem. But Hal is too well-established as being a fan of the ladies (I submit Carol Ferris for your consideration). I don't know enough about John Stewart's and Guy Gardner's love lives to make a call on them. As for Kyle Rainer, I could see him being bisexual, but again, there is an established history of him having relationships with women. Or they could create an entirely new GL who happens to be gay. That works too.[/quote']

More than half the Gay men I know are divorced with children. Just thought I'd mention it.

[JmOz]

Re: Alternate Sexualities in Champions and Supers settings

 

Personaly I don't like the choice. I would have gone with Wonder Woman personaly. I don't so much have a problem with a new character, or a character who I feel it fits the background of, being gay, but I don't like a character that I feel it is something they are changing to change being gay.

 

On WW, it makes a lot of sense to me she would be either a lesbian or bi, with her background (Island of all women, ancient greeks, etc...). I understand wanting a "high profile" character, and Superman or Batman would be a disaster (Batman espesialy, as unfair as it is, you all know what would be said about Robin)

[Christopher]

Re: Alternate Sexualities in Champions and Supers settings

 

Is this about Green Lantern being gay? As long as it's not Hal Jordan' date=' no problem. But Hal is too well-established as being a fan of the ladies (I submit Carol Ferris for your consideration). I don't know enough about John Stewart's and Guy Gardner's love lives to make a call on them. As for Kyle Rainer, I could see him being bisexual, but again, there is an established history of him having relationships with women. Or they could create an entirely new GL who happens to be gay. That works too.[/quote']

I think when they need a new Latern of earth they should look to other colors:

Red and Yellow are evil und thus out of the question.

Indigo might be to seclusive.

Love has Carrol Ferris, but she might be "off world" leading the Star Saphires.

Hope lacks direct powers, unless they fudge a little (like someone having hope and the will to act on it).

 

Personaly I don't like the choice. I would have gone with Wonder Woman personaly. I don't so much have a problem with a new character' date=' or a character who I feel it fits the background of, being gay, but I don't like a character that I feel it is something they are changing to change being gay.[/quote']

In a different article the autor said that he has really re-imagined the character and him being gay is only the smalest part. For example he uses the Green Light directly (no need for a Ring).

 

On WW' date=' it makes a lot of sense to me she would be either a lesbian or bi, with her background (Island of all women, ancient greeks, etc...). I understand wanting a "high profile" character, and Superman or Batman would be a disaster (Batman espesialy, as [b']unfair [/b]as it is, you all know what would be said about Robin)

I too find it disturbing that people think Homsexuals have a higher tendency for Pedophilia, Incest or sexual relationships with wards.

All the time Batman was hetero, nobody ever asumed he had anything with Batgirl. But as soon as anybody thinks of "gay", everybody asumes he would have something with Robin.

[Matt the Bruins]

Re: Alternate Sexualities in Champions and Supers settings

 

More than half the Gay men I know are divorced with children. Just thought I'd mention it.

 

It would have been a surprise, but not necessarily a complete violation of character, if Alan had turned out to be deeply closeted in his previous incarnation. He was married to his first wife for less than a day before she faked her own death, and his second wife had been in unrequited love with him and pursued him for years before he gave in and married her. (By contrast, I think Jay Garrick's seven decade on-panel devotion to Joan and Ted Grant's habit of living up to his heroic codename make heterosexuality a far more crucial component of each's character.)

[Lucius]

Re: Alternate Sexualities in Champions and Supers settings

 

All the time Batman was hetero' date=' nobody ever asumed he had anything with Batgirl. But as soon as anybody thinks of "gay", everybody asumes he would have something with Robin.[/quote']

 

Speculation regarding the relationship of Batman with Robin goes WAY back.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary says if some such speculation about Wonder Woman hasn't been around a long time, it's a wonder

[phoenix240]

Re: Alternate Sexualities in Champions and Supers settings

 

I always thought it was pretty much an unspoken assumption that Wonder woman was bi/straight or at least "Open minded".

[Christopher]

Re: Alternate Sexualities in Champions and Supers settings

 

I always thought it was pretty much an unspoken assumption that Wonder woman was bi/straight or at least "Open minded".

She had little chance to get experieces. And those immortal types always need forever to have interest in new stuff.

 

But afaik the JL/JLU Animated Series WW had a thing for Batman:

[Greywind]

Re: Alternate Sexualities in Champions and Supers settings

 

They dated in the books too. Everyone had a "thing" for Diana.

[phoenix240]

Re: Alternate Sexualities in Champions and Supers settings

 

She had little chance to get experieces. And those immortal types always need forever to have interest in new stuff.

 

But afaik the JL/JLU Animated Series WW had a thing for Batman:

 

Bi/Straight wouldn't exclude her having a relationship/dating a man, of course. It would be her primary romantic interest but she wouldn't be opposed to a romantic relationship (or the idea of such) with a woman. I like the term; "straight but not narrow" too. But I guess that was just an assumption on my part based on her background.

[TheQuestionMan]

Re: Alternate Sexualities in Champions and Supers settings

 

Greetings Program, in answer to your question it does not come up often in the games I Game Master and I have never really concidered doing a Resource List. As a Player I have never played a character with an alternate sexual orientation.

 

Cheers

 

QM

[wrestlinggeek]

Re: Alternate Sexualities in Champions and Supers settings

 

They dated in the books too. Everyone had a "thing" for Diana.

 

As Blue Beetle (Ted Kord) said in Countdown To Infinite Crisis, "I'll tell you a secret about Diana. We're all in love with her."

[Bloodstone]

Re: Alternate Sexualities in Champions and Supers settings

 

This is probably old news but I just heard about it.

 

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/entertainment/2012/05/comics-cliffhanger-as-unnamed-dc-superhero-to-come-out-of-closet/

 

Not super old, but it's the subject of at least 2 threads oveer on the NGD.

 

That's also a fairly poorly written article about it... but then I found DC's whole approach to this anouncement pretty distasteful. I don't mind the idea at all mind you, just the spectacle they made of it. They pulled theme BS with Batwoman.

 

I also find it disturbing that during this whole media extravaganze, almost no one was really mentioning the gay male characters that DC already has. Namely Midnighter and Apollo over in Stormwatch (who were previously married and had a daughter, a relationship the new 52 reboot completly destroyed might I add...)

 

Since this was news to you, I imagine you hadn't heard about this:

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]43388[/ATTACH]

 

And the reveal:

 

 

Northstar and his long time partner Kyle are finally tying the knot.

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]43387[/ATTACH]

 

Marvel could make a huge big deal about it, since not only is it a legalized gay marriage but an interacial one. They could be all "Oh, look at us, we're edgy and pregressive!" And they have done some promoting of it. I think they went on the View to talk about it.

 

Plus they've done wedding anouncements before, so it's not like this was totally unique.

 

 

 

 

Overall, I found that to be much more tactfully done, personally.

 

Is this about Green Lantern being gay? As long as it's not Hal Jordan' date=' no problem. But Hal is too well-established as being a fan of the ladies (I submit Carol Ferris for your consideration). I don't know enough about John Stewart's and Guy Gardner's love lives to make a call on them. As for Kyle Rainer, I could see him being bisexual, but again, there is an established history of him having relationships with women. Or they could create an entirely new GL who happens to be gay. That works too.[/quote']

 

While I get where you're coming from, talking about a characters "established history" after a major line wide reboot like what DC just did is kind of silly...

 

Personaly I don't like the choice. I would have gone with Wonder Woman personaly. I don't so much have a problem with a new character, or a character who I feel it fits the background of, being gay, but I don't like a character that I feel it is something they are changing to change being gay.

 

On WW, it makes a lot of sense to me she would be either a lesbian or bi, with her background (Island of all women, ancient greeks, etc...). I understand wanting a "high profile" character, and Superman or Batman would be a disaster (Batman espesialy, as unfair as it is, you all know what would be said about Robin)

 

Sure, Wonder Woman makes perfect sense. There's been plenty of wink nod moments in the comics to indicate she's probably bisexual, even though they never quite come out and say it. Given her origin, both in the comics and in the office, it would be totally appropriate.

 

But DC doesn't seem to have the balls to really do it though. Hell, they barely had the balls to let her date men...

[Christopher]

Re: Alternate Sexualities in Champions and Supers settings

 

Not super old, but it's the subject of at least 2 threads oveer on the NGD.

 

That's also a fairly poorly written article about it... but then I found DC's whole approach to this anouncement pretty distasteful. I don't mind the idea at all mind you, just the spectacle they made of it. They pulled theme BS with Batwoman.

Here is a lot better one:

http://blastr.com/2012/06/confirmed-dc-comics-newly.php

 

As to why he made the decision to put Scott in this particular spotlight, Robinson says it had a lot to do with DC's reboot causing the loss of Obsidian, a gay DC superhero who was also Scott's son.

"I really believe in this idea of relaunching the Justice Society and making them younger. But I thought it was a shame that we lost Jade and Obsidian, who are Alan Scott's children. Obsidian has been in the comics for years and was a positive gay character. "And then, in the way that one idea can spring forward to the next, I thought, well, let's make Alan Scott gay. And to DC and to (co-publisher) Dan DiDio's credit, when I ran the idea past him, there wasn't a moment's hesitation. He was like, 'Yeah, that's great. Let's do it.'"

Even back when DC's reboot was just launching, many readers were wondering if there were opportunities for brand-new gay characters to emerge in the comics. That hasn't happened yet, but as to why he personally preferred reinventing an old character as gay rather than just inventing a new one, Robinson's answer seems to simply be: Why not?

"As for why not just create a new gay character, I just wanted to do this. I mean, it's one thing if you're creating a new team with new characters, but that isn't what the Justice Society is. It's me rebooting existing characters. "I think you have to remember that this is a reboot. It isn't like I'm taking an old character and suddenly making this character gay. This is a brand new interpretation of this character."

But don't go thinking that we're about to see same-sex coupling all over every page of Earth 2. Robinson noted that he's also gone back to a part of Scott's Golden Age roots to reinvent him as a young media mogul, and he's changed his Green Lantern powers so that the green light flows through his body rather than through a ring. The character's homosexuality is just a small piece of a new age for a very old character.

 

 

 

While I get where you're coming from, talking about a characters "established history" after a major line wide reboot like what DC just did is kind of silly...

 

Sure, Wonder Woman makes perfect sense. There's been plenty of wink nod moments in the comics to indicate she's probably bisexual, even though they never quite come out and say it. Given her origin, both in the comics and in the office, it would be totally appropriate.

 

But DC doesn't seem to have the balls to really do it though. Hell, they barely had the balls to let her date men...

The question is, if the new Wonder Woman is still that indirectly bisexual. I mean, either she has to run into a ex-lover when visiting home or that was a hell of a lonely time back on T-Isliand.

 

And I always thought it were the men lacking the balls to ask her out. I mean she can punch people through walls. And it's not like you can impress her with a car...

[Cygnia]

Re: Alternate Sexualities in Champions and Supers settings

 

Mind you, the cynic in me wonders all the (straight male) readers bemoaning why it wasn't Wonder Woman not because it makes the most sense or encourages character progression but because it would play into their own titillations and fantasies -- that a woman's sexuality isn't for herself but rather for the ogling of men.

[megaplayboy]

Re: Alternate Sexualities in Champions and Supers settings

 

Mind you' date=' the cynic in me wonders all the (straight male) readers bemoaning why it wasn't Wonder Woman not because it makes the most sense or encourages character progression but because it would play into their own titillations and fantasies -- that a woman's sexuality isn't for herself but rather for the ogling of men. [/quote']

 

I guess there's a mirror image to that one: when female pop stars date male pop stars--particularly if it's a "teen heartthrob" type--their album sales often suffer, because their dating that male pop star destroys the female fan's fantasy that she has a chance to "get with" him. So they often wind up having to deny that they're dating, saying "we're just good friends", etc., in order to avoid losing sales.