Religion in Science-Fiction?

[Mister E]

Re: Religion in Science-Fiction?

 

The player's stated assumption is technically correct. Their specific assumption is not. So the question, I suppose, is how one phrases that basic belief--is the basic belief that(correct but ambiguous and non-specific) "one of my contacts has a vehicle", or that (correctly) "Buck has a vehicle" or that(incorrectly) "Motor Man has a vehicle"?

 

The evidence on the character sheet indicates that statement 1 is correct but ambiguous and potentially misleading(since Motor Man at least sounds like he should have a vehicle, and Buck gives no indication, as written as a Contact, that he does(perhaps it's in the flavor text or GM notes somewhere?)), statement 2 may be correct(if the info is indicated there), and statement 3 is incorrect.

 

The PC can either be more specific, or the GM can follow up with the obvious question, "which contact?"

 

Totally.

[megaplayboy]

Re: Religion in Science-Fiction?

 

I don't understand Mr. E most of the time. Could it be that he IS an ELIZA?

 

No, I think he's just RPing a philosopher and really getting into character.

 

Though I would love to see a rambling stream-of-consciousness philosophy thread with E, Lawnmower Boy, Casualplayer et al. one of these days...

[Mister E]

Re: Religion in Science-Fiction?

 

I don't understand Mr. E most of the time. Could it be that he IS an ELIZA?

 

 

How does that make you feel?

[ErikModi]

Re: Religion in Science-Fiction?

 

In the original Star Wars novel, written by George Lucus, Obi-wan offers to TEACH Han Solo how to use the force... Han mocks him. It was implied that anyone could learn. The whole 'inherited talent' thing came later... along with the Jedi don't have family thing.

(I was told that GL had the whole thing plotted in advance... I was very disappointed to find out that he was making it up as he went along.)

 

I really hate to keep coming back to this, but. . .

 

Lucas may indeed have had the whole story planned out, IN BROAD STROKES, and realized that the story he originally envisioned was too big for one movie, so expanded the first act into one full movie.

 

Consider this basic outline for the OT:

 

Leia gives droids plans to Death Star

Leia is captured.

Luke finds droids.

Droids help Luke find Obi-Wan

Luke, Obi-Wan, droids, find Han and go to deliver Death Star plans.

Luke et al find incomplete Death Star.

Luke et al rescue Leia

Luke et al flee to Rebel base.

Empire attacks Rebel base (Death Star still under construction.)

Luke and Obi-Wan flee one way, Han and Leia another.

Obi-Wan trains Luke to be a Jedi.

Han and Leia captured by Vader.

Luke confronts Vader, learns who his daddy is.

Rebels launch assault on Death Star, Luke again confronts Vader, and Emperor.

Good guys win.

Curtain.

 

Now, that seems like one good, self-contained story, but rapidly grows too big for a single film, especially in the late 70s. So, GL expands on the first act, fleshes out many details, and makes the Death Star the completed instrument by which the Empire attacks the Rebel base (after all, if the Death Star just sits there being built for the whole movie, it becomes a failed Chekovian gun.) People make a grand mistake assuming that when GL says "he had the story planned" he means that he had every single line of dialogue, character development, plot point, piece of background info, etc. nailed down. That is simply not how writing works. What he far more likely means is that he had the rough outline of the whole story, from Anakin's birth possibly to Luke's death, in his head in broad strokes, and the details get filled in as he writes.

 

Now, part of the nature of the Force is that all living things are a part of it. People like Han subconsciously draw on the Force all the time, just by being living beings. But they can't interact with it to the level that an actual Force-Sensitive can. Consider another, actually the first, Star Wars novel, Splinter of the Mind's Eye, in which a crystal is discovered that amplifies a person's ability with the Force. Luke and Leia are examining a shard of this crystal, and Luke feels the effect as he touches it. Since (they believe) Leia is not Force-Sensitive, she would feel nothing if she touched the shard (interestingly enough, she never touches the shard or the crystal in the whole story. . . one wonders if GL had some input to ADF as he was writing this story.) The most telling scene in that book, written between ANH and ESB, is Luke talking with self-proclaimed Jedi Master (actually a hack who can barely wiggle a salt shaker) about the effects of the shard and the Force. She mentions that there may be Force-Sensitives in the Imperial Senate who could feel the ripple from Luke and the shard interacting as he touched it, at the very least heavily implying that Force-Sensitivity is determined at birth.

 

Now, the prequels clearly illustrate the Force-Sensitivity is not strictly generational, otherwise, the prohibition on Jedi marrying/having children would very shortly result in there being no more Jedi (just like the mandatory spay/neuter laws PETA is pushing would very shortly result in the extinction of all breeds of pet animals, but that's an entirely off-topic rant.) Somehow, the genetic wizardry that allows Force-Sensitivity is not inherent in having Force-Sensitive parents. Perhaps the Force itself decides to "gift" some children and not others with a more intense connection to it? Midichlorians demystify the Force my ass.

 

Now, so I'm not committing a total foray into off-topic land, if one has a "religion" akin to the Force in a sci-fi setting, what are some implications? Well, the Sith demonstrate one implication succinctly: If some people are born with a more innate connection to the "Force" of the universe, are not those people, by definition, superior to others? Is it not their literal birthright to rule over the other, less-enlightened beings of the galaxy? Is it not fitting and right that all other beings exist to serve those lofty few on the Divine's party line?

 

Also on the subject, the Yuuzhan Vong of the Star Wars EU have an interesting polytheistic religion. They believe in several gods, but chief among them is Yun-Yuuzhan, who, it is said, sacrificed himself to create the universe, carving his body into pieces to create all that exists. Finally, he created his chosen children, the Yuuzhan Vong, for whom he created everything else. The Yuuzhan Vong are not only a "chosen people," the believe that all life was literally made to serve them by God. As an interesting corollary, the Minbari in Babylon 5 believe that Universe broke itself up into galaxies, stars, nebulae, planets, life forms, and sapient individuals in order to better understand itself. Through observing the acts of the beings it has created, the Universe itself gains a better understanding of. . . well, itself. Both faiths start from the premise of "broken into bits, the bits are us" and end in very, VERY different places.

 

Another interesting facet of Yuuzhan Vong religion is that they believe machines are abominations, for they are mockeries of true life. Now, on the surface, this may make them seem like hippy Luddite weirdos, but it actually makes them MORE ecologically destructive than many machine-based cultures, for the Yuuzhan Vong, believing that all life was made to serve them, have no qualms about modifying that life to serve them better. They will destroy entire ecosystems, warp species until they are effectively destroyed if it brings them closer to what they want. I actually wrote a bit for the Star Wars Saga Edition RPG about importing Avatar (yes, yes, I know) into Star Wars, and noted that, far from being kinder to a Pandora-like planet than an industrial society, the Yuuzhan Vong would destroy the planet far more efficiently. The Vong don't care about Unobtanium, but the planet's rich and deadly organic life would be perfect for conversion into biological weapons, destroying whatever these billions of species may have been in favor of what the Yuuzhan Vong thought they should be.

 

Anyway, I've probably rambled far too long, and hope some useful data has come out of it for anyone willing to read my diarreha of the keyboard.

[Lucius]

Re: Religion in Science-Fiction?

 

I don't understand Mr. E most of the time. Could it be that he IS an ELIZA?

 

I no longer expect to understand and don't worry about it. I'm not sure being understood is important to Mr. E.

 

Interesting speculation about what the E means, though.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

sometimes I have a hard enough time understanding a palindromedary

[John T]

Re: Religion in Science-Fiction?

 

How does that make you feel?

*pokes self quizzically* Same as always. Why?..

[Christopher]

Re: Religion in Science-Fiction?

 

How does that make you feel?

I think about sailing on a Boat and about my father

 

Lucas may indeed have had the whole story planned out, IN BROAD STROKES, and realized that the story he originally envisioned was too big for one movie, so expanded the first act into one full movie.

[...]

People make a grand mistake assuming that when GL says "he had the story planned" he means that he had every single line of dialogue, character development, plot point, piece of background info, etc. nailed down. That is simply not how writing works. What he far more likely means is that he had the rough outline of the whole story, from Anakin's birth possibly to Luke's death, in his head in broad strokes, and the details get filled in as he writes.

Afaik that's the usual way of making a Story.

The only exception I know of was Babylon 5, where Straczynski had the plot planned out for the entire run before even showing it. And I mean planned out down to specific sentences the characters had to speak at specific situations. I even heard some actors complained about this level of planning.

[Starcloud]

Re: Religion in Science-Fiction?

 

It wasn't quite that level of pre-planning. There was still a lot of writing that was done while the show was still being filmed. And while some might have complained, others got into it and eventually started naturally becoming the role. And then the quibbles became things like "G'Kar wouldn't say that this way. He'd say this instead."

 

But the general arcs and specific events were planned out, as were the plot lines for every character, including "trapdoors" in case one of the actors had to leave the show for one reason or another.

 

That said, it's obvious Straczynski had to scramble in the fifth season, thanks to the way the show was abruptly cancelled by WB and picked up by Sci-Fi just before the fifth season deadline to re-sign actors.

[lemming]

Re: Religion in Science-Fiction?

 

*facepalm* (several up, but would go ot...)

[NuSoardGraphite]

Re: Religion in Science-Fiction?

 

It wasn't quite that level of pre-planning. There was still a lot of writing that was done while the show was still being filmed. And while some might have complained, others got into it and eventually started naturally becoming the role. And then the quibbles became things like "G'Kar wouldn't say that this way. He'd say this instead."

 

But the general arcs and specific events were planned out, as were the plot lines for every character, including "trapdoors" in case one of the actors had to leave the show for one reason or another.

 

That said, it's obvious Straczynski had to scramble in the fifth season, thanks to the way the show was abruptly cancelled by WB and picked up by Sci-Fi just before the fifth season deadline to re-sign actors.

 

Just a nit pick, but it was picked up by TNT, not Sci-Fi. If Sci-Fi picked it up, they probably would've let Straczynski do what he wanted, unlike the TNT execs.

[Ragitsu]

Re: Religion in Science-Fiction?

 

In the words of Orson Scott Card, "To write science fiction, you don't need to get your science right. You just have to make sure it's not completely wrong."

[Mister E]

Re: Religion in Science-Fiction?

 

This is from the introduction of William Olaf Stapledon's (May 10, 1886 – September 6, 1950) "Last and First Men":

 

"To romance of the future may seem to be indulgence in ungoverned speculation for the sake of the marvellous. Yet controlled imagination in this sphere can be a very valuable exercise for minds bewildered about the present and its potentialities. Today we should welcome, and even study, every serious attempt to envisage the future of our race; not merely in order to grasp the very diverse and often tragic possibilities that confront us, but also that we may familiarize ourselves with the certainty that many of our most cherished ideals would seem puerile to more developed minds. To romance of the far future, then, is to attempt to see the human race in its cosmic setting, and to mould our hearts to entertain new values."

[Ragitsu]

Re: Religion in Science-Fiction?

 

[Clonus]

Re: Religion in Science-Fiction?

 

Someone already did that, I think. And I think I already pointed that Picard was an idiot for thinking that self-sacrifice would somehow abort the process of the invention of a religion when the blood of martyrs is the seed of the Church.

[Ragitsu]

Re: Religion in Science-Fiction?

 

Did what?

[Clonus]

Re: Religion in Science-Fiction?

 

Christianity scares Captain Picard.