Jump to content

Religion in Science-Fiction?


Ragitsu

Recommended Posts

  • Replies 490
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Re: Religion in Science-Fiction?

 

Angels are just silly with microscopic pseudo-singularity tech. With it' date=' they command cosmic teleological gravity.[/quote']

 

A command is a strategic speech act. The other being an alarm. Neither is strictly communicative.

 

Angels require prior intercourse to properly operate, otherwise they become needlessly preoccupied with ambiguous projects.

 

I speculate there must be some kind of tautological proto-angelic force at play in the infinitely elastic Æthers of Sir Isaac Newton's contriving.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: Religion in Science-Fiction?

 

Science can neither prove nor disprove 'God' -

Wrong. Science can prove/disprove 'God' in two easy steps.

1) Define 'God'

2) Hold 'God' up to the hype

If either step fails, then the notion is disproved. In my experience the main fault in proving God exists comes when the God who made the universe is assumed to be the God in a religion.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: Religion in Science-Fiction?

 

Your base assumption' date=' that science is hostile to religion, is incorrect.[/quote']I think you have it reversed. Religion is hostile to science. Religion makes claims that people have accepted only through belief. Science makes claims it can be backed up with proof. No need for just taking a person's word for something, science was something everyone could do. Science encourages questions, any questions. Religion ... not so much. And when religion and science conflict, science wins by showing that it works. How much technology has been derived from faith?

 

To quote Paula Kirby:

Evolution means that the creation accounts in the first two chapters of Genesis are wrong. That’s not how humans came into being, nor the cattle, nor the creeping things, nor the beasts of the earth, nor the fowl of the air. Evolution could not have produced a single mother and father of all future humans, so there was no Adam and no Eve. No Adam and Eve: no fall. No fall: no need for redemption. No need for redemption: no need for a redeemer. No need for a redeemer: no need for the crucifixion or the resurrection, and no need to believe in that redeemer in order to gain eternal life.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: Religion in Science-Fiction?

 

I wouldn't generalize too much about "religion" any more than I would about "science". "Religion" includes Non-Western traditions, such things as Unitarian Universalism(which is decidedly non-hostile to science and reason), and belief systems which aren't centered around answering huge metaphysical questions so much as being focused on how to live one's life ethically and meaningfully. "Science" includes the "hard" sciences and "soft" sciences, and there are aspects of abstract theory in some sciences which take on metaphysical or even spiritual connotations(multiverse theory, e.g.).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: Religion in Science-Fiction?

 

Wrong. Science can prove/disprove 'God' in two easy steps.

1) Define 'God'

2) Hold 'God' up to the hype

If either step fails, then the notion is disproved. In my experience the main fault in proving God exists comes when the God who made the universe is assumed to be the God in a religion.

 

What you are describing is an ontological argument for the existence of God.

 

Science requires lab work. Except no substitute.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: Religion in Science-Fiction?

 

In my supers campaign, the Church of Moore Ontology holds that God(s) exists because humans believe he/she/it exists--their psychic emanations passed through the Astral Plane and into the Planes of Unity and Harmony to cleave the Greater Unity into the Celestial realms of Haven(home of the Greater Good) and Inferno(home of the Ultimate Evil), and to cleave the Greater Harmony into the various polytheistic pantheons. By the tenets of the Moore-ontologists, a believer can, by cultivating their own psychic potential, alter or create their own reality. Of course, this cultivation requires many years of coursework and "mental auditing", and costs tens of thousands of dollars. The scary part is the possibility that there may be more than a grain of truth to what the CMO asserts...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: Religion in Science-Fiction?

 

That is' date=' of course, assuming you're a literalist when it comes to the Bible. Since so many people are, Evolution strikes at the heart of their faith, which is why they're so vehemently against it, and by extension, science and the scientific method.[/quote']The problem with NOT taking the bible literally is that it raises the question of which passages are "metaphorical" and which are "literal". Keep in mind that metaphors can mean many different things. In the end you have a holy text that claims divine authority but empty of meaning.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: Religion in Science-Fiction?

 

What you are describing is an ontological argument for the existence of God.

 

Science requires lab work. Except no substitute.

Perhaps, but it's the pinning down a definition of a god whose limits can be tested (either logically to test for paradox or in a lab to test existence) is where most arguments fail.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: Religion in Science-Fiction?

 

Perhaps' date=' but it's the pinning down a definition of a god whose limits can be tested (either logically to test for paradox or in a lab to test existence) is where most arguments fail.[/quote']

 

Yes. Definitions suck.

 

In general:

 

Definitions cannot be used to prove that anything exists. Things don't exist by definition alone.

 

Definitions are arbitrary. At some point we made them up.

 

Take unicorns for contrast:

 

Attempts to prove the non-existence of things by making deductions from definitions have the same problem. There's just no real connection between what exists & how we describe things.

 

By definition unicorns do not exist. This fact does not change. Even if there were millions of unicorns running all over the place, still this doesn't change the definition of what a unicorn is.

 

Likewise, you cannot merely make unicorns exist just by changing their dictionary entry. That would be cheesy. :o

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: Religion in Science-Fiction?

 

Gravity is a bunch of angels?

Who says it isn't? Who can proove or disproove it?

 

That is' date=' of course, assuming you're a literalist when it comes to the Bible. Since so many people are, Evolution strikes at the heart of their faith, which is why they're so vehemently against it, and by extension, science and the scientific method.[/quote']

 

The problem with NOT taking the bible literally is that it raises the question of which passages are "metaphorical" and which are "literal". Keep in mind that metaphors can mean many different things. In the end you have a holy text that claims divine authority but empty of meaning.

Or perhaps the claim for devine authority IS the metaphorical part?

 

I personally can't believe in any of the gods written in any of the holy books because of it. God could have dictated us the entire knowledge nessesary to archieve godhood for everyone with only a modified toaster. And the people back there were just not bright enough to: Understand it, give propper account of it (across generations), write it down properly and translate it properly through the ages.

And then there was the re-purposing for other causes (especially to claim the godly right for opressive governments).

And that is before I go into the possibilty that those reportedly touched by god where not simply suffering from a mental desease/temporal halucinations.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: Religion in Science-Fiction?

 

One could have a "religion" based simply on a metaphysical conceit, rather than on belief in a specific deity. E.G.: The Church of the Infinite Unknowable holds that sapient beings cannot apprehend all knowledge of all existence, because existence is by definition both infinite and unknowable(that is, one cannot attain complete knowledge of an infinite subject). It therefore venerates this "universal truth", and finds creative ways to apply it to daily existence. It assigns value to the use of emotion and instinct as valid supplements to reason and logic, respects life at all levels, gathers regularly to affirm this truth and renew devotion to finding collective and personal meaning within the "IU", and so forth.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: Religion in Science-Fiction?

 

Specific deity: The Invisible Pink Unicorn

 

The fact that you know The Invisible Pink Unicorn is pink, even though you cannot see it, is proof of its divine omnipotence.

 

Metaphysical conceit: "inherently transcendent pinkness"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 4 weeks later...

Re: Religion in Science-Fiction?

 

How does religion survive science-fiction?

 

Easily.

 

Aliens? Well, there's always John 10:16(And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd).

 

JMS had humans and Minbari crossing species during reincarnation cycles in Babylon 5. Delenn explains a view that every sentient being in the universe is just a splinter of the universe as the universe tries to understand itself.

 

In Alan Dean Foster's Nor Crystal Tears, some human philosophical factions found their perfect counterparts among the Thranx and got along like a house on fire.

 

In Warhammer 40,000, the Continuum puts a lot of effort into preventing humans from being exposed to Tau philosophy and religion.

 

The scientific method is valuable for discovering how and why things work. Religion puts it in perspective by answering the question of why it all matters.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: Religion in Science-Fiction?

 

 

Or perhaps the claim for devine authority IS the metaphorical part?

 

I personally can't believe in any of the gods written in any of the holy books because of it. God could have dictated us the entire knowledge nessesary to archieve godhood for everyone with only a modified toaster.

 

OK, but how many of us wouldn't turn out like Jim Carrey in Bruce Almighty?:)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: Religion in Science-Fiction?

 

OK' date=' but how many of us wouldn't turn out like Jim Carrey in [i']Bruce Almighty[/i]?:)

 

That movie bothered me. Let's say you've been given god-like powers. Omniscience is one of the alleged properties of god. Wouldn't the first thing one should do be to use the godlike omniscience to foretell the consequences of ones actions or inactions ?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: Religion in Science-Fiction?

 

That movie bothered me. Let's say you've been given god-like powers. Omniscience is one of the alleged properties of god. Wouldn't the first thing one should do be to use the godlike omniscience to foretell the consequences of ones actions or inactions ?

 

 

He may have been given god-like powers, but he didn't get the god-like wisdom

to use those powers properly, which caused more than its share of difficulties.

 

 

Major Tom 2009 :cool:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Unfortunately, your content contains terms that we do not allow. Please edit your content to remove the highlighted words below.
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...