Common superhero types you've never seen in play

[Narf the Mouse]

Re: Common superhero types you've never seen in play

 

The greatest advantage of Champions is that you can do anything. It's also the biggest disadvantage of the system. Some people love to see how many different ways they can build a power set. Others, like me, see only a single way to do it. I've met more than one player/GM that got as much or more fun from gaming the system as they did playing the character.

 

I despise the AD&D system and its hit points. I hate how taking and avoiding damage are combined. Now, it works great for many things, including the fact that the hero seldom gets taken down in a single hit. It's great to model the favoritism a character gets from a writer. I still hate it. Use the write power/statistic/skill for the job. Your suggestion of using armor to model avoidance is this. Any player that suggested using the rules this way would be slapped down by me, and I'd take a much more careful look at anything they designed in the future. You want to be hard to hit - buy DCV. Want to resist damage after being hit - buy armor. In the long run, there may well be no difference in combat between these, but there is a very big difference in the feel of the game.

 

Pant pant pant. Sorry about that. Rant over. Back to the thread.

Hero System is SFX-based. Think on that.

[lapsedgamer]

Re: Common superhero types you've never seen in play

 

The greatest advantage of Champions is that you can do anything. It's also the biggest disadvantage of the system. Some people love to see how many different ways they can build a power set. Others, like me, see only a single way to do it. I've met more than one player/GM that got as much or more fun from gaming the system as they did playing the character.

 

I despise the AD&D system and its hit points. I hate how taking and avoiding damage are combined. Now, it works great for many things, including the fact that the hero seldom gets taken down in a single hit. It's great to model the favoritism a character gets from a writer. I still hate it. Use the write power/statistic/skill for the job. Your suggestion of using armor to model avoidance is this. Any player that suggested using the rules this way would be slapped down by me, and I'd take a much more careful look at anything they designed in the future. You want to be hard to hit - buy DCV. Want to resist damage after being hit - buy armor. In the long run, there may well be no difference in combat between these, but there is a very big difference in the feel of the game.

 

Pant pant pant. Sorry about that. Rant over. Back to the thread.

 

The problem with this argument is that there is an official build that does just this: Combat Luck. Resistant Defenses that represents the ability to get out of the way of attacks, not actual armor or force fields. The only restriction being that you have to know it's coming. If I had a player approach me with that power, I would point them to Combat Luck, not ban it outright. In a Hero supers build, you always need a little resistant defense to prevent ignominious death by random bullet or knife wound from a minion.

[lapsedgamer]

Re: Common superhero types you've never seen in play

 

Batman has' date=' in fact, beaten Darkseid in unarmed, hand to hand combat.[/quote']

 

And I hated it when I saw it. Batman should be smart enough not to ever try something like that. Darkseid can trade blows with Superman, without even using his instant hit disintegration eyebeams. The version of this fight I saw had Batman armed with some high tech cestuses, but still...

 

As far as Batman dodging the Omega Beam, it makes sense, as long as it was made clear that it was very difficult to do.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Common superhero types you've never seen in play

 

The greatest advantage of Champions is that you can do anything. It's also the biggest disadvantage of the system. Some people love to see how many different ways they can build a power set. Others, like me, see only a single way to do it. I've met more than one player/GM that got as much or more fun from gaming the system as they did playing the character.

 

I despise the AD&D system and its hit points. I hate how taking and avoiding damage are combined. Now, it works great for many things, including the fact that the hero seldom gets taken down in a single hit. It's great to model the favoritism a character gets from a writer. I still hate it. Use the write power/statistic/skill for the job. Your suggestion of using armor to model avoidance is this. Any player that suggested using the rules this way would be slapped down by me, and I'd take a much more careful look at anything they designed in the future. You want to be hard to hit - buy DCV. Want to resist damage after being hit - buy armor. In the long run, there may well be no difference in combat between these, but there is a very big difference in the feel of the game.

 

Pant pant pant. Sorry about that. Rant over. Back to the thread.

 

Sorry to break it to you, but the use of armor as avoidance is official, both as Combat Luck and other builds as of 5e Champions. Heck, the 5e Champions genre book expressly advises against relying solely on DCV.

[Gary Miles]

Re: Common superhero types you've never seen in play

 

Aqua Man types: No one ever wants to be an ocean-going water-boy in the game.

Never seen anyone with telepathic control over marine life, or a 3D6 HKA fish slap. or the dependance: drink water every hour.

 

Never even seen a Prince Namor type.

 

You would think this would be a magnet draw for gamers...

One of my longer-running PC's was Merlord. A scaled amphibious humanoid, real name Ichthar of Ichthion.

 

He had high-speed Swimming, Aquabatics, Superleap (Only from water), a trident which could be used with the pointy-end or could shoot PD water Energy Blasts, greater Strength on land than in the sea, and an amulet that let him Telepath with and Mind Control aquatic creatures.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Common superhero types you've never seen in play

 

I was about to say, why does everybody forget Aquaman has superspeed, superstrength, and invulnerability? Oh, and he can telepathically stun humans, too.

 

(Answer: 1. Because he hangs out with people who are faster, stronger, tougher, and better telepaths and 2. Because Superfriends.)

[Narf the Mouse]

Re: Common superhero types you've never seen in play

 

And I hated it when I saw it. Batman should be smart enough not to ever try something like that. Darkseid can trade blows with Superman, without even using his instant hit disintegration eyebeams. The version of this fight I saw had Batman armed with some high tech cestuses, but still...

 

As far as Batman dodging the Omega Beam, it makes sense, as long as it was made clear that it was very difficult to do.

He didn't dodge it; he blocked it. With one of Darkseids minions. It just looked like a dodge.

[phoenix240]

Re: Common superhero types you've never seen in play

 

I was about to say, why does everybody forget Aquaman has superspeed, superstrength, and invulnerability? Oh, and he can telepathically stun humans, too.

 

(Answer: 1. Because he hangs out with people who are faster, stronger, tougher, and better telepaths and 2. Because Superfriends.)

 

I'd add 3: The Internet.

[Orion]

Re: Common superhero types you've never seen in play

 

The problem with this argument is that there is an official build that does just this: Combat Luck. Resistant Defenses that represents the ability to get out of the way of attacks' date=' not actual armor or force fields. The only restriction being that you have to know it's coming. If I had a player approach me with that power, I would point them to Combat Luck, not ban it outright. In a Hero supers build, you always need a little resistant defense to prevent ignominious death by random bullet or knife wound form a minion.[/quote']

 

Not completely sure, but think that is from a later edition than I have. Stuff like this is more common in later editions, and is one of the things I dislike about them. They've also got a lot I do like, so it's a wash in the long run. Combat luck is a good way to model the genre trope of not taking damage when you really should have if the villains had brains, or if you don't have a writer on your side. But, since my games don't revolve around the comics genre, I don't see a reason to support those tropes. I have people with superpowers, not comic book heroes. If you don't want to get hurt by hidden agents with guns, get armor or a force field.

 

edit: Collie says it's a 5E thing, so I definitely don't have it, and can thus safely ignore it. :-)

[Bloodstone]

Re: Common superhero types you've never seen in play

 

I'd add 3: The Internet.

 

Nah, people have been making fun of Aquaman for years. It's really mostly because of Superfriends.

 

Plenty of writers have shown him to be kick ass, as have more recent cartoons, but it just doesn't matter in the minds of the general public. Hell, the Aqualads in Teen Titans and Young Justice have booth been plenty popular and neither of them are as powerful as Arthur.

 

Namor rarely gets treated like this, but he's also nowhere near as famous. Plus he's in a better potion status wise in his universe. He's a top tier brick. Aquaman isnt "the best" at much of anything and what he is the best at (king of the sea) is ultimately deemed uninteresting by the majority of readers.

 

End of the day, most folk have never read an Aquaman comic or seen him do anything more than ride a giant purple sea horse and talk to fish...

 

hmmm... Mole Man can probably appreciate this lack of respect...

[assault]

Re: Common superhero types you've never seen in play

 

The biggest (non-Superfriends) problem with Aquaman is that his Silver Age version did actually rely on his talking to fish powers.

 

If he needed to do something that involved super-strength, he'd get whales to do it. If he needed a ranged attack, he would get octopuses to shoot bows and arrows, or something equally ridiculous.

 

Aqualad was the same.

 

60s-70s JLA and Teen Titans stories were cool, but Aquaman... wasn't.

 

That said, I would happily play an Aquaman style character. After all, even without superstrength, he can fight just as well as any other red-blooded superhero, and even a non-cheesy version of his powers wouldn't be completely useless.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Common superhero types you've never seen in play

 

To be fair, most everything in the Silver Age was done in a ridiculous manner.

[phoenix240]

Re: Common superhero types you've never seen in play

 

Nah, people have been making fun of Aquaman for years. It's really mostly because of Superfriends.

 

Sure but the Internet and dumb memes is like Hate and the Dark Side of the Force. One doesn't create the other but one feeds the latter, makes it spread and grow more powerful.

 

So you end up with people that haven't seen a single episode of the Superfriends (or even heard of the show) ripping into Aquaman.

[phoenix240]

Re: Common superhero types you've never seen in play

 

The only problem I had with "You missed" as a SFX for Defenses was Knockback. You can handwave or rationlize it a few ways based on the character but it kind of bugs me when I think about it too hard.

[RexMundi]

Re: Common superhero types you've never seen in play

 

I usually wait for folks in my game to start with the Aquaman jokes. Then, I roll out the Aquaman sheet, and slap them around like red headed step children. After that, they Respect the Orange and Green.

 

~Rex

[Spidey88]

Re: Common superhero types you've never seen in play

 

The biggest (non-Superfriends) problem with Aquaman is that his Silver Age version did actually rely on his talking to fish powers.

 

If he needed to do something that involved super-strength, he'd get whales to do it. If he needed a ranged attack, he would get octopuses to shoot bows and arrows, or something equally ridiculous.

 

 

You could say that Aquaman was fairly effective as a superhero - but lazy as heck. He's just the manager.

 

(You know - I think an octopus archer would make an unspeakably awesome superhero. Certainly not far off from many other characters I've played.)

[lapsedgamer]

Re: Common superhero types you've never seen in play

 

Aquaman's problem is that he hangs out with people who overshadow him. He should rightfully be respected on the basis of his decent stats and fairly broad list of abilities, but it's hard to shine in a group like the JLA. That and his costume is kind of a joke.

[phoenix240]

Re: Common superhero types you've never seen in play

 

I can't be the only one that thinks the ability to control and command sharks, whales, dolphins, giant squids, etc is kinda cool in and of itself.

[RexMundi]

Re: Common superhero types you've never seen in play

 

Aquaman's problem is that he hangs out with people who overshadow him. He should rightfully be respected on the basis of his decent stats and fairly broad list of abilities' date=' but it's hard to shine in a group like the JLA. That and his costume is kind of a joke.[/quote']

 

Hey! One must respect the green and orange. It has history, meaning, and can look darn cool when drawn by the right people. Besides...there have been heroes with worse.

 

~Rex...does admit it can look goofy in the hands of lazy artists

[Spidey88]

Re: Common superhero types you've never seen in play

 

I can't be the only one that thinks the ability to control and command sharks' date=' whales, dolphins, giant squids, etc is kinda cool in and of itself. [/quote']

 

Heck, no - I'd love it!

[assault]

Re: Common superhero types you've never seen in play

 

You could say that Aquaman was fairly effective as a superhero - but lazy as heck. He's just the manager.

 

Why keep a dog, and bark yourself?

[assault]

Re: Common superhero types you've never seen in play

 

but it's hard to shine in a group like the JLA.

 

That's true. Anyone who isn't Superman, Batman, Green Lantern, the Flash or Wonder Woman is likely to be overshadowed in the JLA, and I'm not sure about Wonder Woman...

[Bloodstone]

Re: Common superhero types you've never seen in play

 

I can't be the only one that thinks the ability to control and command sharks' date=' whales, dolphins, giant squids, etc is kinda cool in and of itself. [/quote']

 

Oh, it's a fairly awesome ability...

 

So long as the adventure is in (or very near to) the water.... and arguably so long as we either have Silver age sensibilities or don't mind Aquaman leading his mostly normal friends to slaughter needlessly...

 

The rest of the time, Wonder Woman's animal summoning/controlling powers more useful.

 

And you see how often she uses those...

[Bloodstone]

Re: Common superhero types you've never seen in play

 

and I'm not sure about Wonder Woman...

 

Them's fightin words!!!! Though when written poorly, she's basically overshadowed by Bruce and Clark.

 

Also, you forgot Martian Manhunter, who is pure OMG!! HAX!

 

Aquaman could get more respect if he was the supreme telepath in the JLA, but J'onn bests him there by a pretty wide margin...

 

I should also mention I think Cyborg has a chance to be elevated to supreme tech/computer dude in the upcoming relaunch, but we'll have to see how that actually pans out...

[Clonus]

Re: Common superhero types you've never seen in play

 

I can't be the only one that thinks the ability to control and command sharks' date=' whales, dolphins, giant squids, etc is kinda cool in and of itself. [/quote']

 

It would be awesome...in the hands of a villain. In the hands of a hero? Meh. The truth is, there just aren't a lot of supervillains who operate in an aquatic setting so finding excuses to use that power can get strained. What caught me off guard is Ant-Man. When I realized that early in his career he had city-wide omniscience because every ant in the city was on the lookout for crime and reporting to him...