Common superhero types you've never seen in play

[Naanomi]

Re: Common superhero types you've never seen in play

 

I played a shrinking brick in a convention once... shrink linked with DI to get smaller and denser but not lose mass overall. In a way it is 'just shrinking', albeit with the SFX leading to other fun effects.

 

One you don't see much of is the 'Multiple Man' mass duplication schtick... it gets hard to deal with in a game quick, and unless you are running a Duplication/Summon scam of some sort it is hard to get the numbers high in a reasonable number of points.

 

That being said, one girl in my main group *is* playing a mentalist split into 8 identical bodies... low speed and low defenses, and lots of tiered 'requires multiple users' limitations, plus the ability to resurrect each other, has made it an interesting but not overpowering character.

[Hermit]

Re: Common superhero types you've never seen in play

 

One archetype that I don't think I've ever seen is the constantly wandering hero' date=' a la Bixby Hulk. But that's more a function of campaign/GM limitations than player concept.[/quote']

 

I had it work a long time ago, one player and I had more spare time for blue booking and the like than the rest of the group, the character had extra dimensional movement... so ended up doing a 'Sliders....superhero style' between group games.

[Tech]

Re: Common superhero types you've never seen in play

 

A random thought to spark discussion. What are common things you see in superhero comics that you've never (or almost never) seen in play in your Champions games? Primarily on the PC side, though missing villain concepts is fine too.

 

1. Telepaths who are not also telekinetics. They're fairly common in comics (Prof. X and Psylocke probably being the most prominent), but I've never seen a telepath without a TK shield and flight. Related ...

 

2. Energy projectors who don't fly and/or have forcefields. I don't ever recall seeing a grounded energy projector in any games I've been in for the last 20 years or so. No Havok or Cyclops, always Green Lantern or Human Torch ...

 

3. Stretchy characters. I've only seen one.

 

1. Do indeed have one in the campaign. Actually, on the villain side, lots.

2. Yep, have one of those in the campaign.

3. And a big "yes" to this one too, as well.

[megaplayboy]

Re: Common superhero types you've never seen in play

 

One superhero type I've seen in RPGs but NOT in comics is the teleporting brick. It can be an exceedingly effective combination.

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Common superhero types you've never seen in play

 

One superhero type I've seen in RPGs but NOT in comics is the teleporting brick. It can be an exceedingly effective combination.

 

You mean you haven't seen a Superman comic?

Or do you mean the teleportation special effect?

 

Teleportation the HERO Power when combined with Must Cross Intervening Space is a great way to model the superspeed moves made by Superman in comics and Goku* in anime.

*Goku can do the teleportation special effect later in the DBZ series as well.

[David Blue]

Re: Common superhero types you've never seen in play

 

There's not many sidekicks in games. (Unless they're build on equal or nearly equal points, which is not correct in my opinion.) People want to play Batman, not Robin, Aquaman, not Aqualad, Green Arrow, not Speedy. Even when I've volunteered to take the sidekick role, other players and even the GM have been uncomfortable with the concept.

 

For a comic book writer, it's reasonably easy to come up for things for the sidekick to do, even though Batman does everything better than Robin, and Green Arrow does everything better than Speedy (as well as never having been hooked on heroin). In games, everyone is pessimistic that it's going to work that way. Probably realistically.

[Bloodstone]

Re: Common superhero types you've never seen in play

 

For a comic book writer' date=' it's reasonably easy to come up for things for the sidekick to do, even though Batman does [i']everything[/i] better than Robin, and Green Arrow does everything better than Speedy (as well as never having been hooked on heroin). In games, everyone is pessimistic that it's going to work that way. Probably realistically.

 

Roy was the faster shot than Ollie, which is how he earned his nom de guerre.

 

Dick was always the superior acrobat to Bruce and arguably was more agile in general.

 

Beyond that, yes, they were usually equal or inferior to their mentors. At least until they were no longer side kicks

 

In a game where players are supposed to be built equally, I would probably just leave them a pool of unspent points. Sure you start off a bit weaker, but will grow faster and can more rapidly adapt to the needs of the campaign (or grow into the role you envisioned for yourself).

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Common superhero types you've never seen in play

 

"Sidekick is a state of mind."

 

There'd be no reason not to make the Sidekick on as many points as the PC; it would just be a matter of the sidekick choosing to apprentice himself to the partner and, essentially, choosing to be his 'follower'. Taking Psych Lims like 'Rookie; prone to making amateur mistakes', 'Idolizes Other PC', 'Loyal to Other PC', and then accepting that he gets top billing during introductions.

 

Generally, though, I believe PCs should be roughly equal to one another, both in terms of power level and authority. It would be a rare exception where I'd want to have one or more PCs explicitly beneath another, and it would definitely be something the players would have to agree to. I've been wary of running games with any kind of military hierarchy, for example, because that would have one PC outranking another.

[Bloodstone]

Re: Common superhero types you've never seen in play

 

"Sidekick is a state of mind."

 

There'd be no reason not to make the Sidekick on as many points as the PC;

 

It depends on what you're trying to emulate.

 

Robin or Speedy are only marginally "weaker" than their mentors in a few areas, nearly identical in most other area's and outright superior in one or two key areas. Overall, point balance is going to come out pretty similar and I could easily see two players tag teaming it. And it would be AWESOME! (IMO). Alternately, you can look at Batman: Beyond. Terry isn't a side kick, but a Legacy Hero with a suit of power armor and Bruce in his ear. It puts him right on par with the Bat in his prime.

 

Captain America and Bucky can probably only be built on the same number of points if we either ignore half the stuff Cap can do or we overbuild most of Bucky's tricks and skills to try and compensate. It's not that Bucky isn't a total bad ass (he is), it's just that Cap overshadows him in almost every conceivable way. Bucky is most useful by being a second set of eyes and hands... and being willing to get his hands dirty so Cap doesn't have to. Ultimately, in this situation, it's probably better if one of those two characters is an NPC. I would gladly play the PC Bucky to an NPC Captain America.

 

Hulk and Rick Jones? Not even in the same stratosphere and Jones is better off as a DNPC or GM controlled follower. Keep in mind, Rick Jones proved himself to be consistently useful, so he's not a total tool of a DNPC. And eventually he did have that radiation accident...

 

Generally, though, I believe PCs should be roughly equal to one another, both in terms of power level and authority. It would be a rare exception where I'd want to have one or more PCs explicitly beneath another, and it would definitely be something the players would have to agree to. I've been wary of running games with any kind of military hierarchy, for example, because that would have one PC outranking another.

 

While I prefer my players to be roughly on par with each other in terms of points, it's ultimately more important that they are roughly on par with each other in terms of story, spotlight time and stuff to do.

 

And we almost always end up electing a "leader", so actual official rank within an organization probably wouldn't be too much of an issue within my two main groups.

[RexMundi]

Re: Common superhero types you've never seen in play

 

Yeah but Rick Jones and Captain Marvel.....there's a Multiform build for you, and Jones also ran around as Cap's sidekick and held his own for quite some time. Tend not to see that build either.

 

~Rex

[Greywind]

Re: Common superhero types you've never seen in play

 

"Sidekick" is better in a 3 people group. "Team" is better in a larger group.

[David Blue]

Re: Common superhero types you've never seen in play

 

"I've been wary of running games with any kind of military hierarchy' date=' for example, because that would have one PC outranking another.[/quote']

In the comics, Sergeant Rock is Sergeant Rock from the beginning, Sergeant Fury is Sergeant Fury from the beginning (and only gets promoted higher and higher), and so on. I've never seen that work in a game, and I never expect to.

 

The only way I've seen it work is for the players and the characters to bond over the years, and then for someone to be promoted with unanimous support. And it helps if the character that gets promoted is the least interested in strong vertical ties of hierarchy and subordination and the most interested in horizontal ties of mutual solidarity.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Common superhero types you've never seen in play

 

I admit, I never really thought of Rick Jones as the Hulk's sidekick, even though Jones himself evidently did.

[megaplayboy]

Re: Common superhero types you've never seen in play

 

I guess I'd add that I've rarely seen the "ginormous superhero team" (generally, a team with 10 or more members, up to and including All-Star Squadron, LSH, and GLC-sized groups) trope reiterated in RPGs, and have only seen the "megahero" in games I've run--there seems to be a great deal of wariness of having NPCs with significantly greater ability than the PCs themselves. Of course, that leads to a setting like the official CU, where there was one superhero who went toe to toe with Dr. D, once...but of course, he's dead now(and there's no writeup, either).

[mattingly]

Re: Common superhero types you've never seen in play

 

The sidekick who has "left the nest" appears more often in games. My son's first character was Red X, the undercover villain identity of Teen Titan Robin.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Common superhero types you've never seen in play

 

I guess I'd add that I've rarely seen the "ginormous superhero team" (generally' date=' a team with 10 or more members, up to and including All-Star Squadron, LSH, and GLC-sized groups) trope reiterated in RPGs, and have only seen the "megahero" in games I've run--there seems to be a great deal of wariness of having NPCs with significantly greater ability than the PCs themselves. Of course, that leads to a setting like the official CU, where there was one superhero who went toe to toe with Dr. D, once...but of course, he's dead now(and there's no writeup, either).[/quote']

 

The first Champions game I was in averaged 10 to 12 players.

I will never again subject myself to that again, on either side of the screen.

 

I have no problems with having NPCs who outstrip the PCs, you just have to be really careful using them in a scenario, especially if they're a combatant allied with the PCs. I'm planning on having Diamond start a brawl with my PCs in the near future, and he's got like twice as many points as they do (hey, they're using his old team name and one of the old mothballed bases, gotta see if they can live up to the Fab Five rep ...).

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Common superhero types you've never seen in play

 

The sidekick who has "left the nest" appears more often in games. My son's first character was Red X' date=' the undercover villain identity of Teen Titan Robin.[/quote']

 

Part of me would love to play a game like that, just for the Young Justice 'don't call us sidekicks' vibe. We hit it somewhat in the Teen Champions game I'm in, just with being generally told 'let the adults handle this'.

[GoldenAge]

Re: Common superhero types you've never seen in play

 

At ZARCON (oZARk CONvention) I often combine my 2 Epic City games into one that has 10-12 PCs... It usually goes very well, but these are accomplished roleplayers and GMs. Often times I can just sit back and enjoy the show for a few hours (adjudicating only when asked). This, of course is an annual game. Trying this on a weekly basis is difficult. We've hit the 10 PC mark a few times in our regular Epic City game, but only for one or two games at a time (before college students return to school, military personnel end their leave, job vacations end or schedules get back in the way).

[megaplayboy]

Re: Common superhero types you've never seen in play

 

I find that it actually works better to have a standard size group of 5-6, and have each player have a "pool" of heroes to play, depending on the mission needs and the scenario. In "big fight" situations, each player can play more than one character, which is handy if one of their characters gets taken out of the fight early. Hero System doesn't really handle huge melees with dozens of combatants well, though--as distinct from "mass combat", involving a couple dozen units. It's probably best to only partially stage a huge superfight(the old raid on Sanctuary scenario from Classic Organizations comes to mind), and then just "story out" the rest.

IME, mega heroes should have flaws and vulnerabilities which are somewhat widely known, otherwise there will be that player paranoia about being upstaged. And they should be used judiciously, not ubiquitously(unless, somehow, the theme of the early part of the campaign is that the heroes are the "omegas" of the superhuman food chain, and will need to laboriously work their way up over time).

[Bloodstone]

Re: Common superhero types you've never seen in play

 

I guess I'd add that I've rarely seen the "ginormous superhero team" (generally' date=' a team with 10 or more members, up to and including All-Star Squadron, LSH, and GLC-sized groups) trope reiterated in RPGs,[/quote']

 

At one point in time, our group had 8 players. One of the players has duplication and can produce 2 identical copies of himself. In addition to that, they belong to a massive organization and have, at various points, had as many as 5 NPC's in tow (that was for a pretty big battle though).

 

While I miss several of the players that left the fold, it's a lot easier to run the team with only 4-5 regulars and 1 or 2 pet NPC's...

 

and have only seen the "megahero" in games I've run--there seems to be a great deal of wariness of having NPCs with significantly greater ability than the PCs themselves. Of course, that leads to a setting like the official CU, where there was one superhero who went toe to toe with Dr. D, once...but of course, he's dead now(and there's no writeup, either).

 

Yeah, I never worried about that one. The players know some of the NPC's are built on WAY more points than they. They are ok with it.

 

But they have seen, time and time again, that the world needs them and their unique abilities, so they don't feel over shadowed when standing next to my Thor or Captain Marvel equivalents

[phoenix240]

Re: Common superhero types you've never seen in play

 

I guess I'd add that I've rarely seen the "ginormous superhero team" (generally' date=' a team with 10 or more members, up to and including All-Star Squadron, LSH, and GLC-sized groups) trope reiterated in RPGs, and have only seen the "megahero" in games I've run--there seems to be a great deal of wariness of having NPCs with significantly greater ability than the PCs themselves. Of course, that leads to a setting like the official CU, where there was one superhero who went toe to toe with Dr. D, once...but of course, he's dead now(and there's no writeup, either).[/quote']

 

 

IME, Supers gamers don't take the existence of a mega hero(s) very well, taking them as relegating them to sidekick status by existing or GMPCing/grandstanding by the GM (Eliminster syndrome). I'm amazed there hasn't been more resentment directed Free Spirit in our games but she hasn't really shown or done anything demonstrably beyond the other characters and there are high end and low end Player character PCs in the game already so the idea maybe a bit easier to take.

 

 

But in general it seems to be trouble. I recall when a scenario similar to one Justice League Unlimited episode was proposed on a forum (maybe here?) where the PCs had to deal with the fall out while the campaigns mega hero(s) dealt with a crisis. The reaction was very negative, even hostile, accusing it of being a railroad and making the PCs secondary even though the "big fight" would have been just something in the background the camera, so to speak focused on the player chaeracters.

 

 

OTOH, situations like this can be handled very badly and actually turn in the PCs into spectators or produce a sense of futility. A good example would be the Aberrant scenario "Into the Arms of the Angel of Wrath".