MYTHIC HERO: What Do *You* Want To See?

[megaplayboy]

Re: MYTHIC HERO: What Do *You* Want To See?

 

I know Steve has said there won't be Champions Powers-style "Love God powers, Storm God powers" etc. writeups, but presumably a few basic "standard god shticks"(common to most deities regardless of pantheon, and then maybe those common to deities of a particular pantheon) would be useful--extradimensional movement, universal translator(gods never seem to have difficulty understanding or being understood), shapeshifting, turning humans into things, summoning servants, changing size, etc.

[Lucius]

Re: MYTHIC HERO: What Do *You* Want To See?

 

I think some people are seeing a false dichotomy here.

 

It's as if people are thinking that Mythic Hero must be either of these two things:

 

1. A collection of write ups with stats that's essentially like another Bestiary or a villain book like Conquerors Killers and Crooks, or

2. A book that just repeats what you could find in a general referene on mythology.

 

For example,

 

If it is just a series of character sheets' date=' then I feel it could as easily be called Villains Volume 4. [/quote']

 

Got this response:

 

My point was that if you want deities in your sense' date=' then you don't need a book to detail them because there's little more needed than what's already printed in ordinary mythology books.[/quote']

 

There is plenty that could be written that is neither “already printed in ordinary mythology books” nor “Just a series of character sheets.”

 

To take just an example,

 

A discussion (however brief) on how the existence of different pantheons in the same world can be reconciled so that all are true would be welcome. It's a complex and difficult topic' date=' to be sure, and could take an entire book to cover in depth, but a page or so covering the high points would help the world-builders out here.[/quote']

 

Or

 

"roleplaying religion and priests"' date=' "do gods need worshipers", and "god's actions being mirrored in the world" as chapter titles.[/quote']

 

I strongly recommend Cults of Prax or similar products from old school Runequest (if you can find them) for an example of something that presents information specific to gaming, useful for gaming, and not “just a series of character sheets” either.

 

However, I also don't completely agree with Orion that “stats are useless.” The right Power write ups for example would answer questions like

 

I think the most basic questions are:

1. How does the god "hear" the prayers of their worshippers?

2. How do they go about responding to the petitions of their worshippers?

 

And megaplayboy has a point here too

 

What if Zeus gets blasted by a Galaxar throwing 500 active points at him? No effect? Or might it be helpful to know where Zeus stands, vis a vis space gods, Kings of Edom, and various Demon Lords?

 

If cosmic entities and demon lords and Qliphothic entities all get writeups, deities do too.

 

I can understand the reluctance some people have to giving character sheets to Deities, given the widespread attitude that “If it has stats, it can be killed.” But fortunately, the Hero System is so awesome that it can get around that objection!

 

By God-as-AI' date=' I was just referring to the fact that some deities aren't portrayed anthropomorphically or as having a body at all, just disembodied entities. It seems like you could portray that kind of deity using the AI rules. [/quote']

 

In fact, as I've pointed out, that's already been done in the Champions Universe for the entity known as “The Dragon.”

 

By using the AI Template, but not connecting the AI to a Vehicle, Base, or Focus of any sort, you have an entity that transcends the physical and is immortal - no STUN or BOD and therefore can NOT be killed – but that does have abilities that are both finite and precisely defined in Hero terms. Building Gods this way, or just pointing out that it's one way to build Gods, strikes me as a wonderful way to demonstrate the power and flexibility of the Hero System.

 

Such a Deity can still easily have a corporeal manifestation in the form of linked Telekinesis and Images with Physical Manifestation so as to interact with mortals in “A form you are comfortable with.” Or Duplication with Altered Duplicates could be used to create an “avatar” that, if destroyed, could permanently harm the Deity, possibly even leaving it unable to manifest so directly in the long term.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary wants to see the God Janus, but we already knew that didn't we?

[Steve]

Re: MYTHIC HERO: What Do *You* Want To See?

 

An avatar could possibly be done with Summon/Duplication and maybe Possession by the deity. They can act independently, but they can also be directly controlled by the deity's full attention.

[megaplayboy]

Re: MYTHIC HERO: What Do *You* Want To See?

 

An avatar could possibly be done with Summon/Duplication and maybe Possession by the deity. They can act independently' date=' but they can also be directly controlled by the deity's full attention.[/quote']

 

Possession would be appropriate if the avatar is created ala the show, Supernatural, where the entity takes over the body of a human host.

[Andrew Cermak]

Re: MYTHIC HERO: What Do *You* Want To See?

 

If you know of a source for a mythos that I haven't included on my list' date=' feel free to mention it.[/quote']

 

Two mythos I'd like to submit for consideration are the Incan and the Persian/Zoroastrian.

 

A great source for the Incan Mythos is Handbook of Inca Mythology by Paul R. Steele. Unfortunately, it's not cheap, running $70 plus online. It's supposedly available as an ebook from the publisher (http://www.abc-clio.com/product.aspx?id=60386), but pricing isn't provided.

 

A Persian/Zoroastrian writeup is going to require sensitivity, since it's a living religion, but on the plus side the primary sources are freely available online.

 

http://wisdomlib.org/zoroastrianism/book/the-bundahishn/index.html is a great translation of the Bundahishn, a collection of creation and cosmology stories. The site is nicely laid out and easily readable.

 

Avesta.org has translations of a wide array of Persian/Zoroastrian scriptures, with the Yasna being of the greatest relevance, but it's all pretty dense. The book An Introduction to Ancient Iranian Religion by William W. Malandra is a better starting point.

 

Also, count me as another fan of Legendary Hero as a separate book. Aside from the topics you mentioned, Prester John might be a good candidate for inclusion, as well as some of the more fanciful saints such as St. Christopher and St. George.

[megaplayboy]

Re: MYTHIC HERO: What Do *You* Want To See?

 

In terms of specific deities I'd like to see writeups for:

1. Gaea

2. Atlas(or another ludicrously strong deity)

3. Balder(simulating his immunity to harm from everything but mistletoe)

4. Ptah

5. Amaterasu

6. Thoth

7. Pele

8. Kali

9. Raiden

10. Kuan Yin

11. The Monkey King

12. Hel

13. Tyche, Bes or any other deity of Luck/Good Fortune

14. Bonus points for any Mythical Mega-Monster, like Jormungandr, Typhon, Apep, Fenris Wolf, Ma Yuan, or the Dragon King

15. An Archangel--Michael, Gabriel, Raphael, Uriel or Metatron

16. Satan, Mephistopheles(if the two are different), Beelzebub, Lilith(as God-Queen of the Succubi, perhaps?), Behemoth and Leviathan

17. Voodoo deities

18. Russian/Eastern European deities

19. Persian/Parthian deities(i.e., of the era of Xerxes and Darius)

20. Any Caesar/Pharaoh/Divine Emperor, written up as an actual "God-King"(since they were often deified, why not write one up as such?)

21. Asclepius, Imhotep, any deified Chinese scholar or philosopher

[Matthew Martin]

Re: MYTHIC HERO: What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Also, count me as another fan of Legendary Hero as a separate book. Aside from the topics you mentioned, Prester John might be a good candidate for inclusion, as well as some of the more fanciful saints such as St. Christopher and St. George.

 

Steve mentioned in last week's chat that saints are a no-go for either book. Depending on how broadly one defines the term, this would exclude Michael, Gabriel and Raphael, who are all honored as saints by the Catholic Church (and the Orthodox Churches as well, AFAIK).

[IndianaJoe3]

Re: MYTHIC HERO: What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Steve mentioned in last week's chat that saints are a no-go for either book.

I'd settle for abilities attributed to saints, in lieu of the saints themselves being written up.

[megaplayboy]

Re: MYTHIC HERO: What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Steve mentioned in last week's chat that saints are a no-go for either book. Depending on how broadly one defines the term' date=' this would exclude Michael, Gabriel and Raphael, who are all honored as saints by the Catholic Church (and the Orthodox Churches as well, AFAIK).[/quote']

 

If he's gonna put in a writeup for Satan(and I really hopes he sticks with that), then there are at least 7 Archangels available to writeup, 4 of whom aren't sainted. Uriel is the most commonly cited member aside from the Big 3. In for a penny, in for a pound...

[IndianaJoe3]

Re: MYTHIC HERO: What Do *You* Want To See?

 

If he's gonna put in a writeup for Satan(and I really hopes he sticks with that)' date=' then there are at least 7 Archangels available to writeup, 4 of whom aren't sainted. Uriel is the most commonly cited member aside from the Big 3. In for a penny, in for a pound...[/quote']

 

Enochian magic also calls upon angels, so he could cite it as a source without (hopefully) offending too many Christians.

[megaplayboy]

Re: MYTHIC HERO: What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Enochian magic also calls upon angels' date=' so he could cite it as a source without (hopefully) offending too many Christians.[/quote']

 

Well, I expect one difference between the Abrahamic YHWH/G-d/Allah and Lucifer/Satan, Michael and the rest of the archangels and archdemons is that the latter grouping is not actually infinitely powerful or knowledgeable. There's also a long history of use of angels and demons in RPGs and genre fiction in all media. The use of saints, prophets and the Virgin Mary, OTOH, has not been a commonplace in RPGs, and also not used as frequently in genre fiction, either. Saints tend to be real-historical figures, too(and presumably prophets fit this description as well), which make their use further problematic. I don't think writing up an archangel, in the context of providing a ready equal and opposite counterpart to Satan, is necessarily all that offensive, though. I have yet to see someone register an objection on this thread, but if Steve receives any negative feedback via e-mail, convention or PM, I'm sure he'll be sensitive to it.

[Steve Long]

Re: MYTHIC HERO: What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Two mythos I'd like to submit for consideration are the Incan and the Persian/Zoroastrian.

 

Thanx for the suggestions, Andrew. I'm not sure how feasible it would be to add these to the book given the amount of work I've already got ahead of me, but I'll look into it.

[Steve Long]

Re: MYTHIC HERO: What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Folx, let's not waste any more time on the subject of angels and saints, please.

 

If it seems feasible, I'll probably include an angel or three in the Demonology section. That's about it. I have no intention of including any saints; I have enough to do already.

 

No need to hash it out further.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: MYTHIC HERO: What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Thanx for the suggestions' date=' Andrew. I'm not sure how feasible it would be to add these to the book given the amount of work I've already got ahead of me, but I'll look into it. [/quote']

 

There actually isn't a lot of information available on Incan mythology, unfortunately. I've had reason to research it in the past, and the Spanish were pretty effective in suppressing or destroying records and traditions.

 

The Persian/ Zoroastrian deities, OTOH, are well documented, and still have hundreds of thousands of worshippers. Heck, if you want to fight an "evil" god, Ahriman is quite literally the supreme god of evil.

[Steve Long]

Re: MYTHIC HERO: What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Ahriman is quite literally the supreme god of evil

 

Lies! I have a couple of ex-girlfriends who make him look like a pantywaist.

[gojira]

Re: MYTHIC HERO: What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Wanted to make a quick note here, an idea to forward to Legendary Hero: I was just reading some Dresden Files and thought that some fairy tale type monsters might make a good counter point to various heroes in LH. In other words, some bad guys in addition to the good guys. Also, there's a new TV show Grimm which has "characters inspired by Grimm's Fairy Tales." Adding a few legendary fairy tale monsters might make LH more interesting to a lot of folk.

 

OK, sorry for diversion, I wanted to get this out there while I was thinking about it.

[Nolgroth]

Re: MYTHIC HERO: What Do *You* Want To See?

 

There was an article about a mythology that seemed to be composed by homeless children in Miami--it was linked to in this thread but the article seems to be gone. Perhaps someone with more time and better search-fu can find it.

 

http://www.miaminewtimes.com/1997-06-05/news/myths-over-miami/

 

Though that seems more appropriate for an Urban Fantasy setting than Mythic Hero.

[Sketchpad]

Re: MYTHIC HERO: What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Lies! I have a couple of ex-girlfriends who make him look like a pantywaist.

 

I would gladly put my ex-wife on that list as well On the subject at hand, any chance we might see some of the pantheons not covered as PDF products? Maybe as a Mythical Expansion series of e-books?

[Steve Long]

Re: MYTHIC HERO: What Do *You* Want To See?

 

On the subject at hand, any chance we might see some of the pantheons not covered as PDF products? Maybe as a Mythical Expansion series of e-books?

 

I doubt it. If I have enough information and interest to write about a pantheon, it's goin' in the book. Only if I later acquired a source not currently available to me would that be possible, and even then I'd have to have the interest and time to do it.

[megaplayboy]

Re: MYTHIC HERO: What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Hey, what about the Canaanite gods?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canaanite_religion

[torchwolf]

Re: MYTHIC HERO: What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Been wanting to contribute something useful here apart from saying...

 

I want both Legendary Hero and Mythic Hero books - personally I'll likely buy several copies of each just to lure friends into the Hero System!

 

...and I was just provided a reason to argue for extra detail on Inca mythology, courtesy of Lord Liaden's (and others!) excellent work on the Valley of Night, with some interesting mythological references:

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php/65383-Champions-Universe-The-Valley-Of-Night

 

EDIT: The "Valley of Night" above is a creative extrapolation useful for roleplaying purposes and is also presented as such.

[Blazar]

Re: MYTHIC HERO: What Do *You* Want To See?

 

What I would like to see is a section on, Suggestions for how to create your own pantheon. Suggestions on hierarchy of the gods. Suggestion on types of spheres of influence or domains. etc, etc,

[Sidetrack]

Re: MYTHIC HERO: What Do *You* Want To See?

 

Hawaiian and Polynesian

 

With regard to that, I'm sure the Hawaiian mythos is much more accessible and identifiable in the states than many of the other aspects, but poly (many) is the active term. There is a lot of parallel evolution of similar deities across the Pacific islands, Hawaiian being only one facet of it.

Tangaroa is very important in the Cooks, Tonga had many incarnations of Maui and his brothers and New Zealanders might click much more readily with the Maori take on things.

[Lord Liaden]

Re: MYTHIC HERO: What Do *You* Want To See?

 

...and I was just provided a reason to argue for extra detail on Inca mythology, courtesy of Lord Liaden's (and others!) excellent work on the Valley of Night, with some interesting mythological references:

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php/65383-Champions-Universe-The-Valley-Of-Night

 

While I certainly appreciate your kind words, I mentioned in my intro to my VON campaign concept that I took some dramatic liberties with what I was able to research on Incan mythology. In this case the gaps and lack of details worked to my advantage, letting me fill in stuff that would work for my purposes. But I'm the last person to call this is a reliable guide to the subject.

[Steve Long]

Re: MYTHIC HERO: What Do *You* Want To See?

 

I took some dramatic liberties with what I was able to research on Incan mythology.

 

Well, sometimes that's necessary, since myths and legends aren't always as accomodating as we want-specific-details-on-everything gamers would like. For example, a lot of gods aren't all that well described visually, so when writing them up I have to consult what artists of the past have done (if anything) and give some thought to how I think the god should look.

 

Another example: in Norse mythology, Freya's primarily the goddess of love and beauty, but she's also a war-goddess who gets half the dead from battles. Being a war-goddess implies some ability to fight and some skill with arms, though no myth describes Freya doing anything close to fighting. So I have to decide what will work best for gaming purposes in terms of giving her a weapon, combat Skills, and so on. I have to balance the lack of information against getting too extravagant. Such is the life of a game supplement writer.