Old Man Posted November 19, 2011 Report Share Posted November 19, 2011 The OPERA experiment has repeated and confirmed their original FTL neutrino result, with some modifications that would seem to rule out certain sources of systematic error. http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2011/11/neutrinos-screw-einstein/ So while the result is still improbable it still can't be ruled out either. Next up is for MINOS and (facility in Japan whose name I can't remember) to try to verify the results themselves, sometime next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted November 19, 2011 Report Share Posted November 19, 2011 Re: Science: Particles seen moving at FTL speeds (CERN) (non-climate change thread) Now the ruled out a possible error I didn't even know was there. I guess there is only waiting until they re-try it in japan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man Posted November 21, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 Re: Science: Particles seen moving at FTL speeds (CERN) (non-climate change thread) Pretty much. I'm wondering whether the duplication attempts will be just that, or if they'll try to improve the experiment. For example, we don't know if the neutrinos are actually going FTL or if they're teleporting a short distance and moving STL after that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCoy Posted November 21, 2011 Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 Re: Science: Particles seen moving at FTL speeds (CERN) (non-climate change thread) Pretty much. I'm wondering whether the duplication attempts will be just that' date=' or if they'll try to improve the experiment. For example, we don't know if the neutrinos are actually going FTL or if they're teleporting a short distance and moving STL after that.[/quote'] Either way, if they are going FTL all the way or if they are going lots faster than lght for a short jump then STL the rest of the way, current theory says they can't do that. Looks like we get to learn something new! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted November 21, 2011 Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 Re: Science: Particles seen moving at FTL speeds (CERN) (non-climate change thread) Either way' date=' if they are going FTL all the way or if they are going lots faster than lght for a short jump then STL the rest of the way, current theory says they can't do that. Looks like we get to learn something new![/quote'] And in the worst chase, it's just how to set our clocks properly when counting nanoseconds Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobGreenwade Posted November 21, 2011 Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 Re: Science: Particles seen moving at FTL speeds (CERN) (non-climate change thread) Either way' date=' if they are going FTL all the way or if they are going lots faster than lght for a short jump then STL the rest of the way, current theory says they can't do that. Looks like we get to learn something new![/quote'] Current theory says neutrinos can't tunnel? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted November 21, 2011 Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 Re: Science: Particles seen moving at FTL speeds (CERN) (non-climate change thread) Current theory says neutrinos can't tunnel? I think the quantum tunnel effect doesn't works on that scale. i.e. not so many would have done it and over the entire travel distance they would (on average) still have travelled STL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCoy Posted November 21, 2011 Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 Re: Science: Particles seen moving at FTL speeds (CERN) (non-climate change thread) Current theory says neutrinos can't tunnel? Been mre than a few decades since my last physics course. I was aware of claims of superluminal quantium tunneling, are they now widely accepted? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted November 21, 2011 Report Share Posted November 21, 2011 Re: Science: Particles seen moving at FTL speeds (CERN) (non-climate change thread) Been mre than a few decades since my last physics course. I was aware of claims of superluminal quantium tunneling' date=' are they now widely accepted?[/quote'] Wikipedia only has a short text: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_tunnelling#Faster_than_Light The two only references are: Mohsen Razavy, "Quantum Theory of Tunneling", pages 462-467. World Scientific Publishing Company, 2003 P.E. Low, Comments on apparent superluminal propagation, Ann. Phys, (Leipzig), 7, 1661, (1998) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
novi Posted November 28, 2011 Report Share Posted November 28, 2011 Re: Science: Particles seen moving at FTL speeds (CERN) (non-climate change thread) If I'm reading the wiki correctly, while FTL tunneling is possible, it's the sort of thing that they would have checked for before making their claim. Nor, IIRC, can tunneling occur over distances large enough to explain the measured effect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmjalund Posted November 28, 2011 Report Share Posted November 28, 2011 Re: Science: Particles seen moving at FTL speeds (CERN) (non-climate change thread) just buy Tunnelling with the Megascale advantage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted November 28, 2011 Report Share Posted November 28, 2011 Re: Science: Particles seen moving at FTL speeds (CERN) (non-climate change thread) If I'm reading the wiki correctly' date=' while FTL tunneling is possible, it's the sort of thing that they would have checked for before making their claim. Nor, IIRC, can tunneling occur over distances large enough to explain the measured effect.[/quote'] I am not up to date on that specific topic, but afaik the longest tunneling (STL) so far detected was about 1m. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man Posted February 22, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2012 Re: Science: Particles seen moving at FTL speeds (CERN) (non-climate change thread) It was too good to be true after all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeropoint Posted February 22, 2012 Report Share Posted February 22, 2012 Re: Science: Particles seen moving at FTL speeds (CERN) (non-climate change thread) Darn it. You win this time, Einstein! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted February 22, 2012 Report Share Posted February 22, 2012 Re: Science: Particles seen moving at FTL speeds (CERN) (non-climate change thread) It was too good to be true after all. Sounds pretty solid for me. And like I said earlier, when stopping neutrinos travel time you better are very, very certain your clock goes right. Either way' date=' if they are going FTL all the way or if they are going lots faster than lght for a short jump then STL the rest of the way, current theory says they can't do that. Looks like we get to learn something new![/quote'] And in the worst chase' date=' it's just how to set our clocks properly when counting nanoseconds [/quote'] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xavier Onassiss Posted February 22, 2012 Report Share Posted February 22, 2012 Re: Science: Particles seen moving at FTL speeds (CERN) (non-climate change thread) According to sources familiar with the experiment, the 60 nanoseconds discrepancy appears to come from a bad connection between a fiber optic cable that connects to the GPS receiver used to correct the timing of the neutrinos' flight and an electronic card in a computer. ...oh crud. I know loose connections can take forever to locate (trouble-shooting nightmare!) but when the entire world is debating over your results, you might wanna, idunno, look harder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cancer Posted February 22, 2012 Report Share Posted February 22, 2012 Re: Science: Particles seen moving at FTL speeds (CERN) (non-climate change thread) I'd be interested to know precisely what the mistake was, but just about no one in the physics community is surprised that it has been found to be a mistake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man Posted February 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 Re: Science: Particles seen moving at FTL speeds (CERN) (non-climate change thread) I did give a sardonic laugh when I read the explanation. Loose cable? Really? Layer 1 issues should be among the first things checked when troubleshooting any strange network behavior. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christopher Posted February 23, 2012 Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 Re: Science: Particles seen moving at FTL speeds (CERN) (non-climate change thread) I did give a sardonic laugh when I read the explanation. Loose cable? Really? Layer 1 issues should be among the first things checked when troubleshooting any strange network behavior. Well if it was a Layer 1 error that wasn't found, it propably was actually a Layer 8 Error. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCoy Posted February 23, 2012 Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 Re: Science: Particles seen moving at FTL speeds (CERN) (non-climate change thread) It was too good to be true after all. New data, however, will be needed to confirm this hypothesis. Yeah, equipment malph would explain it, now that the suspected malfunction has been corrected, let's run the experiment again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmjalund Posted February 23, 2012 Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 Re: Science: Particles seen moving at FTL speeds (CERN) (non-climate change thread) People keep saying that Einsteins Special Relativity says that nothing can go faster than light. This is not true! What it says is that nothing can cross the light-speed barrier. any particle that starts going faster than light can and must continue to go faster than light until it is destroyed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cancer Posted February 23, 2012 Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 Re: Science: Particles seen moving at FTL speeds (CERN) (non-climate change thread) Well, there has yet to be any detected interaction between an FTL particle and a slower-than-light particle. This is the empirical way of saying that (1) that no FLT particle has yet been detected, and (2) there is no evidence that FTL particles exist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmjalund Posted February 23, 2012 Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 Re: Science: Particles seen moving at FTL speeds (CERN) (non-climate change thread) there, however, is no reason why FTL particles cannot interact with photons and other things that move at the speed of light. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cancer Posted February 23, 2012 Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 Re: Science: Particles seen moving at FTL speeds (CERN) (non-climate change thread) I'd have to think about that, at least partly because there's no reason to believe FTL particles exist in the first place, let alone how they might or might not interact with particles that we do know exist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Egyptoid Posted February 23, 2012 Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 Re: Science: Particles seen moving at FTL speeds (CERN) (non-climate change thread) these guys need to be locked in a room with a TI-99 and the dark matter guys. then they can all teach each other math. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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