Gliding = Untrackable?

[Pattern Ghost]

Gliding has been used for years to build characters that can move without being tracked.

 

I have a couple of problems with that:

 

1. You can't lose altitude while moving just above the ground on level ground. I think the non-altitude losing mode is now officially an option in 6th, but whenever it first showed up in official write ups, it wasn't.

 

2. Not touching your feet to the ground makes you leave no foot prints. It doesn't actually make you un-trackable. Tracking has to do with more things than footprints.

 

I do like that it's a simple way to build an effect, even though not necessarily accurate.

 

Has anyone come up with alternate builds?

 

The only really simple solution I can see for being untrackable is a stealth or tracking opposed skill roll. However, that doesn't necessarily mesh with all character concepts.

 

BESM has a very simple solution: They just have a power called Untrackable. Something like that, maybe a Talent, would probably work for a lot of campaigns, where being tracked doesn't come up too often. I think a lot of characters have the power more for descriptive purposes than practical application.

[Bloodstone]

Re: Gliding = Untrackable?

 

Has anyone come up with alternate builds?

 

Invisible Power FX for Running.

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Gliding = Untrackable?

 

Desolidification, only to leave to evidence of one's presence?

[Folded]

Re: Gliding = Untrackable?

 

Invisibility (Only vs. Tracking Attempts), or Change Environment (Permanent) with a penalty to Tracking rolls, One Hex only. Not sure on those, but possible starting points.

[lapsedgamer]

Re: Gliding = Untrackable?

 

I would say that the gliding build would cover leaving no footprints. Combine that with invisibility to the smell/taste group (no fringe) and you've pretty much got it. The only problem with that would be someone that had tracking and/or discriminatory built onto a non-tracking sense. In Hero terms it's hard to build an absolute, but how often would you see that sort of tracking build. Sounds like a nemesis in the making. Makes good dramatic sense to me.

[Beast]

Re: Gliding = Untrackable?

 

teleport only leaves traces at start and stop points

character must be able traverse said terrain

this like just makes it a lot harder for the tracker to follow a trail especially if the character varies the distance and does not go in a straight line

[Pattern Ghost]

Re: Gliding = Untrackable?

 

I would say that the gliding build would cover leaving no footprints. Combine that with invisibility to the smell/taste group (no fringe) and you've pretty much got it. The only problem with that would be someone that had tracking and/or discriminatory built onto a non-tracking sense. In Hero terms it's hard to build an absolute' date=' but how often would you see that sort of tracking build. Sounds like a nemesis in the making. Makes good dramatic sense to me.[/quote']

 

Doesn't cover movement through a wooded or jungle terrain, where you'd have to pass through thick vegetation. There's damage to plants, clothing and hair fibers catching on plants, etc.

[Pattern Ghost]

Re: Gliding = Untrackable?

 

Desolidification' date=' only to leave to evidence of one's presence?[/quote']

 

I've thought of that. Heavily limited Desolid would probably work. Desolid seems to be one of those Swiss army knife powers that can be limited down to do a lot of things. I'm kind of surprised that it hasn't been broken up into its constituent parts by now.

[Lucius]

Re: Gliding = Untrackable?

 

I've thought of that. Heavily limited Desolid would probably work. Desolid seems to be one of those Swiss army knife powers that can be limited down to do a lot of things. I'm kind of surprised that it hasn't been broken up into its constituent parts by now.

 

Me too.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

Detect Palindromedary, Tracking

[Christopher]

Re: Gliding = Untrackable?

 

Gliding has been used for years to build characters that can move without being tracked.

 

I have a couple of problems with that:

 

1. You can't lose altitude while moving just above the ground on level ground. I think the non-altitude losing mode is now officially an option in 6th, but whenever it first showed up in official write ups, it wasn't.

Why can't you? As far as I know, you just crash. Nothing in the 6E writeup of gliding says: "Can't hit the groudn because of altitude loss." Have to check the 5E writupt of Gliding.

But when you are only two meter high and have to reduce your altitude by two meter (to keep movign forward), you kiss the ground in my book....

 

2. Not touching your feet to the ground makes you leave no foot prints. It doesn't actually make you un-trackable. Tracking has to do with more things than footprints.

Flyign does not leaves a trail under msot conditions. You could extend that to "Flying, only in contact with a surface". Since gliding in 6E is a Limited form of flight (every flyer can glide. Glide only flight is better at Gliding however). I am not quite certain if Gliding (5E or 6E) is inherently silent.

 

Has anyone come up with alternate builds?

IPE for Movement can at least prevent your movement from beign heard. "You can't prevent the fact that you moved from beign noticed" with IPE wich I interpret as "you still leave trails normally".

 

Combine that with invisibility to the smell/taste group (no fringe) and you've pretty much got it. The only problem with that would be someone that had tracking and/or discriminatory built onto a non-tracking sense.

It depends on what group that tracking sense is part of. If it is part of sight or smell (I think you meant smell there), then it would be totally affected by the invisibility. That's the downside for using an existing sense group.

[Christopher]

Re: Gliding = Untrackable?

 

Okay, took a look at 5E gliding and the "trackless movement writeup".

 

While "Only in contact with surface" Flight still leaves a track in 6E (explicitly noticed), you could allow a +1/4 IPE Advantage for not leaving a trail.

Or you could allow a +1/4 "Useable as extra form of Movement: Flight, Only in Contact with Surface, does not leaves a Trail".

[Pattern Ghost]

Re: Gliding = Untrackable?

 

If that made you completely immune to being tracked, it'd imply that flight/gliding comes with some inherent ability to keep you from brushing into things above ground level as well, like the aforementioned clothing and hair fibers. Which is what I find weird.

 

On the third hand, if someone wanted to be completely untrackable and wanted to use the gliding build, I'd allow it as GM. It does assign a reasonable point value to an effect, even if the logic is (IMO) a little shaky. They'd have to do something else about their scent, of course.

[lapsedgamer]

Re: Gliding = Untrackable?

 

Doesn't cover movement through a wooded or jungle terrain' date=' where you'd have to pass through thick vegetation. There's damage to plants, clothing and hair fibers catching on plants, etc.[/quote']

 

Good point.

 

I've thought of that. Heavily limited Desolid would probably work. Desolid seems to be one of those Swiss army knife powers that can be limited down to do a lot of things. I'm kind of surprised that it hasn't been broken up into its constituent parts by now.

 

I suppose I could see the Desolid build. What that limitation worth, -1 ?

 

It depends on what group that tracking sense is part of. If it is part of sight or smell (I think you meant smell there), then it would be totally affected by the invisibility. That's the downside for using an existing sense group.

 

Actually, I was thinking more of something exotic like a mental sense or enhanced hearing or something. Invisibility to smell/taste would take care of tracking by scent, which is why i suggested it.

 

However, the Desolid build is interesting. It is actually more efficient for being completely untraceable. It's a little uber, but it is efficient. I guess what gives me pause is figuring out a remedy to it. Tracking by scent that affects desolid? Dispel Desolid Area Effect (only to reveal traces)?

 

I think inobvious, or even invisible, on movement as a naked modifier works pretty well. The remedy is just to buy higher PER rolls to overcome the minuses to see traces.

[Christopher]

Re: Gliding = Untrackable?

 

However' date=' the Desolid build is interesting. It is actually more efficient for being completely untraceable. It's a little uber, but it is efficient. I guess what gives me pause is figuring out a remedy to it. Tracking by scent that affects desolid? Dispel Desolid Area Effect (only to reveal traces)?[/quote']

Propably Affects Desolid. Or just use some sense that is not affected. Desolid only takes care of touch and smell.

I am higly oncertain that you don't leave tracks. When you "walk on ground per force of will", why should you not leave tracks in mud? You still have your weight (when somebody grabs you with Affects Desolid STR.) and you choose to let it affect the world.

[Christopher]

Re: Gliding = Untrackable?

 

Okay, asked about desolid and footprints:

http://www.herogames.com/forums/showthread.php/87757-Tracking-and-Desolidification

 

I am very certain that Stealth counters Skill Based Tracking and Sense Based tracking.

 

Tht would mean the "gamelogical" way to do an "untrackable" ability, would be to use Invisbility (wich I consider Stealth squared)

[Christopher]

Re: Gliding = Untrackable?

 

Okay, his answer was: No, Desolid characters can't leave tracks since that is "affecting the physical world".

[CrosshairCollie]

Re: Gliding = Untrackable?

 

I suppose I could see the Desolid build. What that limitation worth' date=' -1 ?[/quote']

 

I'd think it'd be more than that, since it doesn't allow you to do the two major things Desolidification does; protect you from damage, or move through objects. IIRC, 'Does not protect against damage' is a -1, and 'doesn't let you pass through solid objects' is a -1/2. Now, that latter limitation still lets you do things like squeeze under doors or travel through pipes; since this Desolidification doesn't do anything of the sort, I'd crank that up to -1 1/2 or even -2.

[Christopher]

Re: Gliding = Untrackable?

 

Considering that all it prevents really is you from leaving a footprint- and scent trail, how about:

Invisibility (Touch and Smell Group), 15 Base Cost, 0 END (+1/2), 22 Active Points; Only to not leave a Trail (-1); 11 Real Cost

 

I think the Fringe can be ignored: It either means you have to be within two meters of the target, or withint two meters of his trail. Both means the power has totally failed.

If a GM insist on it, it becomes: 25 Base, 37 AP, 18 Real Cost.

Depending on your build, it would certainly beat Desolid (40 Base Points, 60 Active Points).

 

My reason to not use Desolid:

It's primarily a Movement Power (it's like Tunneling; without material Limits, but also without taking others along or leaving a tunnel).

At least that is my interpreation for the Limtiations: You can take away the damage immunity totally, but there is no default limitation for taking away the Mobility totally.

[Pattern Ghost]

Re: Gliding = Untrackable?

 

Not leaving foot prints or scent trails would make you very hard to track, but you don't just interact with the ground and the air when you're moving through some environments.

 

I think Desolid is really the only power that can make someone completely untrackable. I'd say -2 probably for the level of limitation. Depending on how fast your ground movement is, though, Gliding may be cheaper and more reasonably priced. 13 points for an ability that seldom comes up in most games may be a bit high. Or we could just make a custom power or talent, call it Untrackable and discount it down to 10 pts.