Bushido Hero

itsalwayssunny · December 25, 2011

So, I have an old copy of "Bushido," the game from FGU way back when (1981), and would love to do an RPG set in feudal Japan where the PCs are bushido (and maybe other types as well). However, I find FGU games nearly impenetrable when I try to get thru the rules. I guess it's their off-putting arrangement of rules (examples: "1063.4b Mystical Acquisition of Shengudo," "1053.2a Study of Okuden") and unusual approach to character creation, or maybe it's just me.

The game is actually a very good genre book for getting a game up and running, but it might be easier to actually play using Hero System instead of "Bushido."

Anyway, are there any materials for Hero System that would aid in running a game of this sort? Is there a sourcebook of this type (not the Martial Arts book)? Or does anyone have any homemade stuff they'd like to share? Basically I'm lazy when it comes to having to convert to Hero System.

--Kap

Captain Obvious · December 25, 2011

Re: Bushido Hero

Markdoc's Sengoku game had some good info online at one point, but all I can find right now are disjointed archive pages. Maybe shoot him an IM and see if it's available somewhere in one place...

Susano · December 25, 2011

Re: Bushido Hero

So, I have an old copy of "Bushido," the game from FGU way back when (1981), and would love to do an RPG set in feudal Japan where the PCs are bushido (and maybe other types as well). However, I find FGU games nearly impenetrable when I try to get thru the rules. I guess it's their off-putting arrangement of rules (examples: "1063.4b Mystical Acquisition of Shengudo," "1053.2a Study of Okuden") and unusual approach to character creation, or maybe it's just me.

The game is actually a very good genre book for getting a game up and running, but it might be easier to actually play using Hero System instead of "Bushido."

Anyway, are there any materials for Hero System that would aid in running a game of this sort? Is there a sourcebook of this type (not the Martial Arts book)? Or does anyone have any homemade stuff they'd like to share? Basically I'm lazy when it comes to having to convert to Hero System.

--Kap

5E Ninja Hero has some stuff that might be useful. But it's more a generic martial arts sourcebook.

I have some stuff here: http://surbrook.devermore.net/herosource/herosource.html#NH based on the aforementioned Sengoku game.

Also, Usagi Yojimbo stuff here: http://surbrook.devermore.net/adaptationscomic/comicchar.html#UY

Blade of the Immortal: http://surbrook.devermore.net/adaptationsanime/animechar.html#BLADE

Inuyasha: http://surbrook.devermore.net/adaptationsanime/animechar.html#INU

My PC from Markdoc's Sengoku campaign: http://surbrook.devermore.net/original/ninja/jiro.html

I also highly recommend the Asian Bestiaries Volumes I & II. I has China, II has Japan. Both are crammed with monsters and the like for any game set in feudal Japan era.

RPMiller · December 25, 2011

Re: Bushido Hero

You might want to take a look at the newer version of Bushido--Sengoku, from Gold Rush Games. It has everything Bushido had, plus a significant amount more. It uses the old Fuzion system, which has a good amount of "Hero System feel" to it.

Susano · December 25, 2011

Re: Bushido Hero

You might want to take a look at the newer version of Bushido--Sengoku' date=' from Gold Rush Games. It has everything Bushido had, plus a significant amount more. It uses the old Fuzion system, which has a good amount of "Hero System feel" to it.[/quote']

Yeah, Fuzion is pretty easy to convert to HERO. There's probably a guide to it posted around these boards somewhere.

Balabanto · December 26, 2011

Re: Bushido Hero

It's an awesome idea, but you need to consider some sort of Seppuku rule, similar to what they have in L5R. Especially late in the game, this can be a big deal-breaker for a number of people who otherwise love this genre, and honorable suicides should be a fairly common occurrance if the heroes place themselves in constant danger.

MrAgdesh · December 26, 2011

Re: Bushido Hero

The game is actually a very good genre book for getting a game up and running, but it might be easier to actually play using Hero System instead of "Bushido."

Having played a lot of Bushido over the years (I'm even playing in a campaign currently) I would really recommend just learning the rules. They work just perfectly for that genre. There is for example, the underlying thought that each combat that you engage in could well be your last, no matter how good you are.

Its a beautiful little system, even after all these years. As for a genre book, pick up Sengoku as that is full of very useful info. For rules, stick with Bushido and you will be pleasantly rewarded.

Midas · December 26, 2011

Re: Bushido Hero

I'll add that the original TYR games version was a "build" rather than a "level" system. It was rather similar to Champions I, IIRC. I much prefered it to the FGU version.

No, other than mine gathering mold in the shed, I haven't any idea where you can get a copy.

(But they say you can find anything on the 'net, if you look hard enough)

Lord Liaden · December 26, 2011

Re: Bushido Hero

If you don't mind dealing with Fourth and Fifth Edition HERO rules, here are materials which could be very helpful.

Complete web sourcebook for adventuring in the Sengoku era of feudal Japan:

http://web.archive.org/web/20050330162016/http://geocities.com/TimesSquare/Castle/9529/Gaming_stuff/Sengoku/sengoku_front_page.html

(You may have to click on the "Impatient?" link on the page which first appears, to get to the actual archived website.)

A more mythic/magical approach to gaming in medieval Japan, including spells, Package Deals (character templates) and optional rules:

http://members.tripod.com/~hawk_wind/hero/rissun.html

RPMiller · December 27, 2011

Re: Bushido Hero

Yeah' date=' Fuzion is pretty easy to convert to HERO. There's probably a guide to it posted around these boards somewhere.[/quote']

Yup. And the person to ask would probably be Lord Liaden.

itsalwayssunny · December 27, 2011

Re: Bushido Hero

It's an awesome idea' date=' but you need to consider some sort of Seppuku rule, similar to what they have in L5R. Especially late in the game, this can be a big deal-breaker for a number of people who otherwise love this genre, and honorable suicides should be a fairly common occurrance if the heroes place themselves in constant danger.[/quote']

What do you suggest?

I don't know what "L5R" is.

I think the players I'd be working with would understand suicide to preserve their PCs' honor.

--Kap

itsalwayssunny · December 27, 2011

Re: Bushido Hero

If you don't mind dealing with Fourth and Fifth Edition HERO rules, here are materials which could be very helpful.

Complete web sourcebook for adventuring in the Sengoku era of feudal Japan:

http://web.archive.org/web/20050330162016/http://geocities.com/TimesSquare/Castle/9529/Gaming_stuff/Sengoku/sengoku_front_page.html

(You may have to click on the "Impatient?" link on the page which first appears, to get to the actual archived website.)

A more mythic/magical approach to gaming in medieval Japan, including spells, Package Deals (character templates) and optional rules:

http://members.tripod.com/~hawk_wind/hero/rissun.html

Thanks for the link to the sourcebook.

Any magic in the game wouldn't be in the hands of the PCs, so no need for spells and what not. Might use the occasional monster or mythical creature, but very seldom so it stays magical and frightening.

--Kap

Susano · December 27, 2011

Re: Bushido Hero

What do you suggest?

I don't know what "L5R" is.

I think the players I'd be working with would understand suicide to preserve their PCs' honor.

--Kap

L5R = Legend of the Five Rings

Susano · December 27, 2011

Re: Bushido Hero

It's an awesome idea' date=' but you need to consider some sort of Seppuku rule, similar to what they have in L5R. Especially late in the game, this can be a big deal-breaker for a number of people who otherwise love this genre, and honorable suicides should be a fairly common occurrance if the heroes place themselves in constant danger.[/quote']

I think you're overestimating the idea that failure = suicide. I recall reading that before the Tokugawa era, samurai might surrender, sneak attack, burn down castles, and do all sorts of 'underhanded' stunts to win. Also, in Seven Samurai, the one of the character speaks of having lost every battle he was in. So if the PCs attempt to recover X object and fail, having them commit suicide to recover their honor might be a bit much -- they can still try again. Suicide in the face of epic failure (bringing shame onto your lord or your family for example) is another thing, however. Also, suicide upon the death of a lord is something that was discouraged, IIRC, by some people, as it removed learned men from advising the newer lord. Also, a lot of bandits were samurai and soldiers who took to crime after their side lost a war or their lord was killed.

RPMiller · December 28, 2011

Re: Bushido Hero

Seppuku was rarely self-administered. It was typically the result of an order.

Chris Goodwin · December 28, 2011

Re: Bushido Hero

I played in a Bushido Hero game once. It's been over 20 years ago, though, so no materials from that game survive except for maybe a couple of character sheets.

itsalwayssunny · December 28, 2011

Re: Bushido Hero

My understanding is that failure itself is not dishonorable and wouldn't require suicide. Losing in a battle didn't result in suicide. Maybe fleeing in cowardice would require it, but getting beaten wouldn't.

Susano · December 28, 2011

Re: Bushido Hero

My understanding is that failure itself is not dishonorable and wouldn't require suicide. Losing in a battle didn't result in suicide. Maybe fleeing in cowardice would require it' date=' but getting beaten wouldn't.[/quote']

Suicide could also be a way of protest. 13 Assassins shows this happening. One could suicide to prevent the dishonor of capture as well. Or, someone higher up could order you to do it to atone for some offense. The 47 ronin did this, as they had committed murder, but it allowed them to die with honor. And, if you were getting older and didn't want to go out on your back, you might do it so you could die with dignity and honor intact.

I'll also note that old-style bushido is somewhat different than than the WWII-era bushido. It was far more flexible and... 'lenient' than the warrior's code of the Japanese soldier during the 30s and 40s.

itsalwayssunny · December 28, 2011

Re: Bushido Hero

Suicide could also be a way of protest. 13 Assassins shows this happening. One could suicide to prevent the dishonor of capture as well. Or, someone higher up could order you to do it to atone for some offense. The 47 ronin did this, as they had committed murder, but it allowed them to die with honor. And, if you were getting older and didn't want to go out on your back, you might do it so you could die with dignity and honor intact.

I'll also note that old-style bushido is somewhat different than than the WWII-era bushido. It was far more flexible and... 'lenient' than the warrior's code of the Japanese soldier during the 30s and 40s.

It would be helpful if you said what "13 Assassins" is or refers to.

I don't think I'd compare bushido (popular culture: samurai warriors) to Japanese WWII soldiers. Bushido, from what I've read, would have a lot more autonomy and wherewithal. Anyway, the game I started this thread for would be feudal Japan so the point is moot.

--Kap

Susano · December 28, 2011

Re: Bushido Hero

It would be helpful if you said what "13 Assassins" is or refers to.

I don't think I'd compare bushido (popular culture: samurai warriors) to Japanese WWII soldiers. Bushido, from what I've read, would have a lot more autonomy and wherewithal. Anyway, the game I started this thread for would be feudal Japan so the point is moot.

--Kap

13 Assassins is a movie.

Manic Typist · December 28, 2011

Re: Bushido Hero

Bushido is a concept which changes drastically based upon time and context. So, you can sort of do whatever you want with it from a story perspective...

Historically, there are criticisms of the 47 Ronin in that there actions weren't in accord with Bushido. Long analysis made short, some argue that if they were truly adhering to the (as then conceptualized) standards of Bushido because they waited in order to ensure success, whereas many interpreted the requirement is that they immediately attack; victory is irrelevant. Also, waiting and asking for permission to commit seppuku after their attack instead of just doing it.

Lawnmower Boy · December 31, 2011

Re: Bushido Hero

Since Bushido was invented in 1900 in Malvern, PA, it's pretty unreasonable to hold its precepts against the 47 Ronin.

(Inazo Nitobe was obviously not the first person to use the word "Bushido," but you have to engage in some pretty heroic acts of exegesis to read a coherent "code of Bushido" back into earlier Japanese literature.)

Manic Typist · December 31, 2011

Re: Bushido Hero

I agree.

That was the point I was trying to make.

It's something that was invented centuries later in another land to describe the not well documented beliefs of a different culture, which itself had internal variations.

So, just do what you want with it.