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Midas

Star Fleet Battles Starships

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Re: Star Fleet Battles Starships

 

Well, you're going to need some graph paper, a 32-impulse speed chart, and a pretty darn thick skin for when people start talking about balance issues. Plus, you'll have to live with some methane-breathing Oscar the Grouch clones running the galaxy.

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Re: Star Fleet Battles Starships

 

Do they trade shots at FTL? I had the impression the fights took place at impulse speed, with the scale being 10,000km per hex. If ships are moving at different multiples of light speed, I have no idea how one would map out such a battle("Okay, you're travelling at Warp 3, thats 27 light seconds per second, and you're travelling at Warp 6, that's 216 light seconds per second...").

Obviously, you need megascale on your flight, sensors and weapon systems. You also need a damage scale, which then influences ship body and defenses(I'd suggest minimum damage of 6 or 7d6 KA(enough to kill a human instantly). Energy allocation seems to be a big issue, so you need an END reserve and for the movement, weapons and shields to all cost endurance to run(and likely to cost enough that you can't max everything out simultaneously). Your shields and weapon systems will have limited arcs of coverage, and part of the gameplay will be allocating energy accordingly. I don't see a lot of effective evasive maneuvering in that setting--usually a "phaser lock" will mean an automatic hit. Ships usually maneuver in order to put maximum firepower on a target, or to keep rotating shield facings in order to prevent internal damage.

 

That's all I can think of, offhand.

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Re: Star Fleet Battles Starships

 

In SFB, the ships are, indeed, traveling at low (for Trek) FTL speeds in combat; the max combat speed is a tad over Warp 3 (31c, to be precise, although the fastest seeking weapons travel at 32c). Energy considerations typically force speeds to be a bit lower, as does turn radii for many of the ships.

 

I wouldn't necessarily try to simulate the mechanics of SFB in Hero, though, despite their similarities in using segmented actions. If you are trying to do Prime Directive Hero, use Hero for PC-level actions and SFB (or the simpler Federation Commander) for space combat.

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Re: Star Fleet Battles Starships

 

Not necessarily a Constitution Class cruiser' date=' but how would HEROdom design starships that could move, maneuver, and trade shots at FTL?[/quote']

 

Do they trade shots at FTL? I had the impression the fights took place at impulse speed' date=' with the scale being 10,000km per hex. If ships are moving at different multiples of light speed, I have no idea how one would map out such a battle("Okay, you're travelling at Warp 3, thats 27 light seconds per second, and you're travelling at Warp 6, that's 216 light seconds per second...").[/quote']

At least Photon Torpedoes from TNG onward can be fired at warpspeed. According to the Enterpise manual, they even have a small warp drive and can use their mater/antimater warhead as fuel. Also, there are multiple warp-capable probe types.

I think the even used a Phase Canon from ENT once during a warp flight, but am not certain (it would be possible if the warp fields "touch" one another and you fire through the touchign point).

 

How I would to it:

Not use FTL Travel, the power. It asumes no ability to interact.

As noted above, Megascale is propably the beast way. Perhaps you could even make your own "Warpscale"/"Stellar Scale" advantage with your own progression (otherwise weapons and drives could be unessesarily expensive/AP-intensive).

Another idea is to make torpedoes as automatons with warp flight and Self Killing attack and torpedo launchers as "summon" powers. That way you could even simulate them loosing yield (using up endurance) when they have to chase a target at warp. The APG II has rules for Foci that act on their own SPD, with a Missile being the example.

When for flying at different Warp factors, you also might have to take relative velcoity into account.

 

To only real typ I can give you for balancing: Asume every +/-1 exquals +/-10 % chance of success. That is the easiest way to translate penalties/bonuses.

 

Another thing is the "Shields at 50%":

You can either do this with Ablative, or by saying that the shield generator is an Endurance Reserve and that the Shields have "Damage based Endurance cost" from APG II.

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Re: Star Fleet Battles Starships

 

In SFB, the ships are, indeed, traveling at low (for Trek) FTL speeds in combat; the max combat speed is a tad over Warp 3 (31c, to be precise, although the fastest seeking weapons travel at 32c). Energy considerations typically force speeds to be a bit lower, as does turn radii for many of the ships.

 

I wouldn't necessarily try to simulate the mechanics of SFB in Hero, though, despite their similarities in using segmented actions. If you are trying to do Prime Directive Hero, use Hero for PC-level actions and SFB (or the simpler Federation Commander) for space combat.

 

I agree with Peregrine that you would want to use SFB where possible, but in order to allow coordination with shipboard actions, you need a 12 impulse chart, which I have provided below.

 

[TABLE=class: grid, width: 500, align: center]

[TR]

[TD]SPEED

in hexes[/TD]

[TD]1[/TD]

[TD]2[/TD]

[TD]3[/TD]

[TD]4[/TD]

[TD]5[/TD]

[TD]6[/TD]

[TD]7[/TD]

[TD]8[/TD]

[TD]9[/TD]

[TD]10[/TD]

[TD]11[/TD]

[TD]12[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]1[/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD]1[/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]2[/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD]1[/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD]1[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]3[/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD]1[/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD]1[/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD]1[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]4[/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD]1[/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD]1[/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD]1[/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD]1[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]5[/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD]1[/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD]1[/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD]1[/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD]1[/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD]1[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]6[/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD]1[/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD]1[/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD]1[/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD]1[/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD]1[/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD]1[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]7[/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD]1[/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD]1[/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD]1[/TD]

[TD]1[/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD]1[/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD]1[/TD]

[TD]1[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]8[/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD]1[/TD]

[TD]1[/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD]1[/TD]

[TD]1[/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD]1[/TD]

[TD]1[/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD]1[/TD]

[TD]1[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]9[/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD]1[/TD]

[TD]1[/TD]

[TD]1[/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD]1[/TD]

[TD]1[/TD]

[TD]1[/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD]1[/TD]

[TD]1[/TD]

[TD]1[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]10[/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD]1[/TD]

[TD]1[/TD]

[TD]1[/TD]

[TD]1[/TD]

[TD]1[/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD]1[/TD]

[TD]1[/TD]

[TD]1[/TD]

[TD]1[/TD]

[TD]1[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]11[/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD]1[/TD]

[TD]1[/TD]

[TD]1[/TD]

[TD]1[/TD]

[TD]1[/TD]

[TD]1[/TD]

[TD]1[/TD]

[TD]1[/TD]

[TD]1[/TD]

[TD]1[/TD]

[TD]1[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]12[/TD]

[TD]1[/TD]

[TD]1[/TD]

[TD]1[/TD]

[TD]1[/TD]

[TD]1[/TD]

[TD]1[/TD]

[TD]1[/TD]

[TD]1[/TD]

[TD]1[/TD]

[TD]1[/TD]

[TD]1[/TD]

[TD]1[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]13[/TD]

[TD]1[/TD]

[TD]1[/TD]

[TD]1[/TD]

[TD]1[/TD]

[TD]1[/TD]

[TD]2[/TD]

[TD]1[/TD]

[TD]1[/TD]

[TD]1[/TD]

[TD]1[/TD]

[TD]1[/TD]

[TD]1[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]14[/TD]

[TD]1[/TD]

[TD]1[/TD]

[TD]1[/TD]

[TD]1[/TD]

[TD]1[/TD]

[TD]2[/TD]

[TD]1[/TD]

[TD]1[/TD]

[TD]1[/TD]

[TD]1[/TD]

[TD]1[/TD]

[TD]2[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]15[/TD]

[TD]1[/TD]

[TD]1[/TD]

[TD]1[/TD]

[TD]2[/TD]

[TD]1[/TD]

[TD]1[/TD]

[TD]1[/TD]

[TD]2[/TD]

[TD]1[/TD]

[TD]1[/TD]

[TD]1[/TD]

[TD]2[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]16[/TD]

[TD]1[/TD]

[TD]1[/TD]

[TD]2[/TD]

[TD]1[/TD]

[TD]1[/TD]

[TD]2[/TD]

[TD]1[/TD]

[TD]1[/TD]

[TD]2[/TD]

[TD]1[/TD]

[TD]1[/TD]

[TD]2[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]17[/TD]

[TD]1[/TD]

[TD]1[/TD]

[TD]2[/TD]

[TD]1[/TD]

[TD]2[/TD]

[TD]1[/TD]

[TD]1[/TD]

[TD]2[/TD]

[TD]1[/TD]

[TD]2[/TD]

[TD]1[/TD]

[TD]2[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]18[/TD]

[TD]1[/TD]

[TD]2[/TD]

[TD]1[/TD]

[TD]2[/TD]

[TD]1[/TD]

[TD]2[/TD]

[TD]1[/TD]

[TD]2[/TD]

[TD]1[/TD]

[TD]2[/TD]

[TD]1[/TD]

[TD]2[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]19[/TD]

[TD]1[/TD]

[TD]2[/TD]

[TD]1[/TD]

[TD]2[/TD]

[TD]1[/TD]

[TD]2[/TD]

[TD]2[/TD]

[TD]1[/TD]

[TD]2[/TD]

[TD]1[/TD]

[TD]2[/TD]

[TD]2[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]20[/TD]

[TD]1[/TD]

[TD]2[/TD]

[TD]2[/TD]

[TD]1[/TD]

[TD]2[/TD]

[TD]2[/TD]

[TD]1[/TD]

[TD]2[/TD]

[TD]2[/TD]

[TD]1[/TD]

[TD]2[/TD]

[TD]2[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]21[/TD]

[TD]1[/TD]

[TD]2[/TD]

[TD]2[/TD]

[TD]2[/TD]

[TD]1[/TD]

[TD]2[/TD]

[TD]2[/TD]

[TD]2[/TD]

[TD]1[/TD]

[TD]2[/TD]

[TD]2[/TD]

[TD]2[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]22[/TD]

[TD]1[/TD]

[TD]2[/TD]

[TD]2[/TD]

[TD]2[/TD]

[TD]2[/TD]

[TD]2[/TD]

[TD]1[/TD]

[TD]2[/TD]

[TD]2[/TD]

[TD]2[/TD]

[TD]2[/TD]

[TD]2[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]23[/TD]

[TD]1[/TD]

[TD]2[/TD]

[TD]2[/TD]

[TD]2[/TD]

[TD]2[/TD]

[TD]2[/TD]

[TD]2[/TD]

[TD]2[/TD]

[TD]2[/TD]

[TD]2[/TD]

[TD]2[/TD]

[TD]2[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]24[/TD]

[TD]2[/TD]

[TD]2[/TD]

[TD]2[/TD]

[TD]2[/TD]

[TD]2[/TD]

[TD]2[/TD]

[TD]2[/TD]

[TD]2[/TD]

[TD]2[/TD]

[TD]2[/TD]

[TD]2[/TD]

[TD]2[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]25[/TD]

[TD]2[/TD]

[TD]2[/TD]

[TD]2[/TD]

[TD]2[/TD]

[TD]2[/TD]

[TD]3[/TD]

[TD]2[/TD]

[TD]2[/TD]

[TD]2[/TD]

[TD]2[/TD]

[TD]2[/TD]

[TD]2[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]26[/TD]

[TD]2[/TD]

[TD]2[/TD]

[TD]2[/TD]

[TD]2[/TD]

[TD]2[/TD]

[TD]3[/TD]

[TD]2[/TD]

[TD]2[/TD]

[TD]2[/TD]

[TD]2[/TD]

[TD]2[/TD]

[TD]3[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]27[/TD]

[TD]2[/TD]

[TD]2[/TD]

[TD]2[/TD]

[TD]3[/TD]

[TD]2[/TD]

[TD]2[/TD]

[TD]2[/TD]

[TD]3[/TD]

[TD]2[/TD]

[TD]2[/TD]

[TD]2[/TD]

[TD]3[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]28[/TD]

[TD]2[/TD]

[TD]2[/TD]

[TD]3[/TD]

[TD]2[/TD]

[TD]2[/TD]

[TD]3[/TD]

[TD]2[/TD]

[TD]2[/TD]

[TD]3[/TD]

[TD]2[/TD]

[TD]2[/TD]

[TD]3[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]29[/TD]

[TD]2[/TD]

[TD]2[/TD]

[TD]3[/TD]

[TD]2[/TD]

[TD]3[/TD]

[TD]2[/TD]

[TD]2[/TD]

[TD]3[/TD]

[TD]2[/TD]

[TD]3[/TD]

[TD]2[/TD]

[TD]3[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]30[/TD]

[TD]2[/TD]

[TD]3[/TD]

[TD]2[/TD]

[TD]3[/TD]

[TD]2[/TD]

[TD]3[/TD]

[TD]2[/TD]

[TD]3[/TD]

[TD]2[/TD]

[TD]3[/TD]

[TD]2[/TD]

[TD]3[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]31[/TD]

[TD]2[/TD]

[TD]3[/TD]

[TD]3[/TD]

[TD]2[/TD]

[TD]3[/TD]

[TD]3[/TD]

[TD]2[/TD]

[TD]3[/TD]

[TD]3[/TD]

[TD]2[/TD]

[TD]3[/TD]

[TD]3[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]32[/TD]

[TD]2[/TD]

[TD]3[/TD]

[TD]3[/TD]

[TD]2[/TD]

[TD]3[/TD]

[TD]3[/TD]

[TD]2[/TD]

[TD]3[/TD]

[TD]3[/TD]

[TD]2[/TD]

[TD]3[/TD]

[TD]3[/TD]

[/TR]

[/TABLE]

 

The only thing that I don't have knowledge of SFB to say if they have rules for under crewed vessels, so if Klingons board the ship and start killing crew, you'd have to figure it out. I'm trying to remember how the rules work for multiple people assisting you with a skill roll, but my memory fails me.

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Re: Star Fleet Battles Starships

 

The only thing that I don't have knowledge of SFB to say if they have rules for under crewed vessels' date=' so if Klingons board the ship and start killing crew, you'd have to figure it out. I'm trying to remember how the rules work for multiple people assisting you with a skill roll, but my memory fails me.[/quote']

 

Yes, there are rules for undercrewed ships, because there are rules for A. boarding actions and B. crew losses due to ship damage.

 

SFB is the Advanced Squad Leader of space combat games.

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Re: Star Fleet Battles Starships

 

Yes, there are rules for undercrewed ships, because there are rules for A. boarding actions and B. crew losses due to ship damage.

 

SFB is the Advanced Squad Leader of space combat games.

 

As well as rules for the effects of Superior Quality Officers in various positions, allowing a pretty easy way to integrate the effects of various PC's actions in relation to the overall ship combat.

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Re: Star Fleet Battles Starships

 

Well' date=' you're going to need some graph paper, a 32-impulse speed chart, and a pretty darn thick skin for when people start talking about balance issues. Plus, you'll have to live with some methane-breathing Oscar the Grouch clones running the galaxy.[/quote']

 

Hydrans? Are Hydrans that powerful in your gaming group?

 

In any case, the setting is first season TOS, so Romulans are cryptic xenophobes to the Galactic Northeast, the Kzinti are to Galactic South, the Orions are (dubiously) members of the Federation, the Gorn and the Tholians have not been encountered yet. As for the ADB races, no one knows of the existence of the Hydrans, Lyrans, ISC, Andromedans*, etc.

 

*That includes either of the Andromedans from the original series.

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Re: Star Fleet Battles Starships

 

s

Hydrans? Are Hydrans that powerful in your gaming group?

 

In any case, the setting is first season TOS, so Romulans are cryptic xenophobes to the Galactic Northeast, the Kzinti are to Galactic South, the Orions are (dubiously) members of the Federation, the Gorn and the Tholians have not been encountered yet. As for the ADB races, no one knows of the existence of the Hydrans, Lyrans, ISC, Andromedans*, etc.

 

*That includes either of the Andromedans from the original series.

 

Dude, I OWNED with the Hydrans, almost every time I played 'em.

Little green tripartite buggers FTW

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Re: Star Fleet Battles Starships

 

OK gang. Lots of food for thought here. I'll think on the responses and post proper replies in the next day or two.

 

A n'B et al: What era? I can't see Hydrans being all that dangerous with fighters armed with P IIIs and no warp boosters.

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Re: Star Fleet Battles Starships

 

OK gang. Lots of food for thought here. I'll think on the responses and post proper replies in the next day or two.

 

A n'B et al: What era? I can't see Hydrans being all that dangerous with fighters armed with P IIIs and no warp boosters.

 

Erk, been to long to answer, as I don't exactly grok the question. Era? Uh... well. I mostly played around the early 80's.

Hydrans just worked well for me. Fighters are what let you get close enough for a proper knife-fight with your Hellbores & Fusion guns

 

Edit: tho I also played Gorn quite a bit, to be fair.

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Re: Star Fleet Battles Starships

 

I can usually take a Hydran apart at range with a Kzinti ship of the same points cost...but I'm really weak against Feds. OTOH, my Tholians eats feds for breakfast.

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Re: Star Fleet Battles Starships

 

I'm trying to remember how the rules work for multiple people assisting you with a skill roll' date=' but my memory fails me.[/quote']

There is none directly. We have rules for complimentary rolls and a computer/Base/Vehicle that has a skill can use it to complement your roll (if you have it). One other person might help you there too.

 

I think in this situation a "Requires Multiple Users" Limitation is more fitting to simulate that you need crew.

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Re: Star Fleet Battles Starships

 

As to 'fighting at warp' is concerned, it depends on what series and at what point in the series you are talking about. Because of that, I wouldn't worry too much about whether or not the rules you impose jive with the 'established' rules of the universe since they are always in flux.

 

Reasonably said, though, unless the two warp fields are touching, phasers should not work if fired forward. The moment the energy left the warp bubble it would no longer be traveling as fast as the ship that fired it. Likewise, unless the torpedo can travel at warp speeds, they wouldn't work either. That of course brings up issues of why such torpedoes aren't used in non-warp fights and how a ship's warp field interacts with the shields of another - seems like a bit of physics that only a few people could really predict. Now, if firing behind yourself, you can probably justify but even that has its limits given trajectory.

 

Speaking of "warp speed" weapons, though. Assuming torpedoes can work at warp speed and, as we know, even TOS Enterprise can level a planet, why wouldn't warring races just level their opponents with several high war torpedoes aimed at planets? Sure, it isn't honorable, but it is sure elegant in its simplicity. The weapons would be hard to target and deal with and thus could easily distract a whole ship from performing its normal duties to just stop one single weapon. Add on Clocking tech or phasing tech, and the weapon is nearly undetectable and untouchable.

 

Anyway, that's all I really have to offer.

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Re: Star Fleet Battles Starships

 

I thought the reason they were Phasers instead of Lasers was that they were capable of being fired at warp speed.

 

At any rate, from sometime before TMP, Phasers were warp-capable. After all, they were Kirk's reflexive choice when they were stuck in the wormhole (from a failed warp field) with the asteriod...

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Re: Star Fleet Battles Starships

 

You might also consider Spacedock, crafted by our own Steve Long, no less. It is built to work with Last Unicorn's Star Trek game and not Hero, admittedly. However, it is a very detailed system for Star Trek ship construction, including suggestions on game balance, so that might give you better fodder for conversion to Hero.

 

 

http://www.coldnorth.com/memoryicon/spacedock/spacedock.htm

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Re: Star Fleet Battles Starships

 

I can usually take a Hydran apart at range with a Kzinti ship of the same points cost...but I'm really weak against Feds. OTOH' date=' my Tholians eats feds for breakfast.[/quote']

 

 

Well, obviously we have questions about period and whether you use an open or a fixed map. But the real problem is point cost. It's been a long, long time since I looked at SFB point values, but a Hydran Ranger heavy cruiser is about 93BPV, and each of its 9 Stinger fighters ranges in cost from 8 to 10 points, meaning that a Hydran Ranger ready for action is worth between 165 and 180 BPV. Convert over the alternative "Dragoon" model, and you get a ship that's worth 140BPV to start with, and which carries 3 fighters. Again, a final cost in the range of 165 to 180BPV.

 

Meanwhile, equivalent Kzinti hull, the strike cruiser/battlecruiser sits at around 115BPV. So to balance this fight in a straight up duel, you're going to have to fiddle around a bit.

 

Now, in the strategic companion game, a Kzinti heavy cruiser costs 8 points, while the Hydran heavies both cost 10 points. A fifty percent upgrade in combat value translates into a 25% increase in cost. But it gets worse. The mechanics give the cruisers unlimited fighters for the purchase price and give the Hydrans a significant cost break on them.

 

So, yes. The Hydrans rule the galaxy, at least at the strategic level.

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Re: Star Fleet Battles Starships

 

As to 'fighting at warp' is concerned, it depends on what series and at what point in the series you are talking about. Because of that, I wouldn't worry too much about whether or not the rules you impose jive with the 'established' rules of the universe since they are always in flux.

 

Reasonably said, though, unless the two warp fields are touching, phasers should not work if fired forward. The moment the energy left the warp bubble it would no longer be traveling as fast as the ship that fired it.

The same is true if fired sideways or backward. The moment they leave the field, they spread themself over 300.000 - 9.300.000 km per second. Not realyl a good focus for any energy weapon...

 

Likewise' date=' unless the torpedo can travel at warp speeds, they wouldn't work either. That of course brings up issues of why such torpedoes aren't used in non-warp fights and how a ship's warp field interacts with the shields of another - seems like a bit of physics that only a few people could really predict. Now, if firing behind yourself, you can probably justify but even that has its limits given trajectory.[/quote']

Generally Warp fields and Shields interact negatively. They can be used, but it's nothing you do regulary and both will be weaker than when used seperately.

 

About the torpedoes:

They have a warp drive capable of holding the speed they were fired at. they can't archive it on their own (something about even Warp Factors being more energy-efficient).

 

Speaking of "warp speed" weapons' date=' though. Assuming torpedoes can work at warp speed and, as we know, even TOS Enterprise can level a planet, why wouldn't warring races just level their opponents with several high war torpedoes aimed at planets? Sure, it isn't honorable, but it is sure elegant in its simplicity. The weapons would be hard to target and deal with and thus could easily distract a whole ship from performing its normal duties to just stop one single weapon. Add on Clocking tech or phasing tech, and the weapon is nearly undetectable and untouchable.[/quote']

Range is limited. To actually level a planet, you have to be in orbit. After traveling 1 minute at Warp 3 your torpedoes don't have much yield left. Also you can't carry an unlimited supply and you need a lot of mater/antimater too.

 

Also tryign to destroy a planet won't help you. You propably need the resources, the atmsphere, the building or anything else that would be wiped out as well.

 

I thought the reason they were Phasers instead of Lasers was that they were capable of being fired at warp speed.

 

At any rate, from sometime before TMP, Phasers were warp-capable. After all, they were Kirk's reflexive choice when they were stuck in the wormhole (from a failed warp field) with the asteriod...

The asteroid was in there. The warp field was unrelevant. As long as as both were in a wormhole they were in the same "FTL-Effect" Field. So the phaser would have (subjectively) never traveled faster than light or had a FTL/STL transition repectively.

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Re: Star Fleet Battles Starships

 

Goodness, this took a lot of finding. Fortunately, I'm on vacation till Sunday (woo-hoo!) and have time for this kind of important project. It's a ranking by wins list of SFB tournament cruisers. The top-rated boat, the "Wyn Black Shark," is a drone-and-disruptor boat, like the Kzinti, while the WAX is an option mount-equipped monster. You can see that the Hydran holds its own, while the Federation ship comes in dead last. This really has very little to do with technology type, though. Drone and disruptor ships are distributed up and down the list, and there's issues with how well the Federation ship represents Federation technology at all. And blah blah blah. Here's the link, for those interested.

WBS: 0.56

WAX: 0.55

HYD: 0.55

ISC: 0.55

ORI: 0.52

AND: 0.52

ZIN: 0.51

GRN: 0.51

KLI: 0.49

TKR: 0.49

LYR: 0.48

ATC: 0.48

SEL: 0.47

LDR: 0.46

RFH: 0.46

TKE: 0.43

THN: 0.43

FED: 0.41

If anyone's interested, both the WBS and WAX are Wyn ships. The former is a disruptor-and-drones boat, possibly with some optional mounts, the latter is...unique. By and large, ships don't group by technology on the list of The Hydran ranks

 

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Re: Star Fleet Battles Starships

 

Strange that the Tholian is rated so low--I always did pretty well if I had a web caster. Oh well.

 

I'm also surprised to see the ISC rated so highly; I prefer ships that can, like, turn.

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Re: Star Fleet Battles Starships

 

The same is true if fired sideways or backward. The moment they leave the field, they spread themself over 300.000 - 9.300.000 km per second. Not realyl a good focus for any energy weapon...

 

Generally Warp fields and Shields interact negatively. They can be used, but it's nothing you do regulary and both will be weaker than when used seperately.

 

About the torpedoes:

They have a warp drive capable of holding the speed they were fired at. they can't archive it on their own (something about even Warp Factors being more energy-efficient).

 

 

Range is limited. To actually level a planet, you have to be in orbit. After traveling 1 minute at Warp 3 your torpedoes don't have much yield left. Also you can't carry an unlimited supply and you need a lot of mater/antimater too.

 

Also tryign to destroy a planet won't help you. You propably need the resources, the atmsphere, the building or anything else that would be wiped out as well.

 

 

The asteroid was in there. The warp field was unrelevant. As long as as both were in a wormhole they were in the same "FTL-Effect" Field. So the phaser would have (subjectively) never traveled faster than light or had a FTL/STL transition repectively.

 

Huh? The phaser fired backwards will have the same kind of effect as a torpedo fired backwards. The moment it leaves the warp bubble, it is no longer traveling at its relative faster than light speed. And will continue like it did while in the bubble until it hits or otherwise is discharged, destroyed, etc. As such, if another ship runs over it, it will collide with it. This is much the same way that a rock thrown out of the sun roof of one car can hit and damage a car behind it.

 

As to planet to planet torpedoes, it should be noted that in the 25th century, one doesn't have to 'bomb' a planet in a conventional sense in order to inflict life killing affects. Bio, chem, nuclear, etc. And if that planet is the home territory and largest population base for your enemy, it doesn't take more to start justifying building small compact ships that can go that distance. And since you don't have to worry about sustaining life on bored, it doesn't have to be bigger than an engine, weapon system, and navigation system. Given the original enterprise wasn't that large yet was capable of sustaining warp 4-5 flight for long periods at a time, I think the possibility of doing such things on a smaller weapon scale is possible.

 

But like with all other RPG endeavors, there is a certain need to remember to not let the 'facts' get in the way of a good story.

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Re: Star Fleet Battles Starships

 

Goodness' date=' this took a lot of finding. Fortunately, I'm on vacation till Sunday (woo-hoo!) and have time for this kind of important project. It's a ranking by wins list of SFB tournament cruisers. The top-rated boat, the "Wyn Black Shark," is a drone-and-disruptor boat, like the Kzinti, while the WAX is an option mount-equipped monster. You can see that the Hydran holds its own, while the Federation ship comes in dead last. This really has very little to do with technology type, though. Drone and disruptor ships are distributed up and down the list, and there's issues with how well the Federation ship represents Federation technology at all. And blah blah blah. Here's the link, for those interested.

WBS: 0.56

WAX: 0.55

HYD: 0.55

ISC: 0.55

ORI: 0.52

AND: 0.52

ZIN: 0.51

GRN: 0.51

KLI: 0.49

TKR: 0.49

LYR: 0.48

ATC: 0.48

SEL: 0.47

LDR: 0.46

RFH: 0.46

TKE: 0.43

THN: 0.43

FED: 0.41

If anyone's interested, both the WBS and WAX are Wyn ships. The former is a disruptor-and-drones boat, possibly with some optional mounts, the latter is...unique. By and large, ships don't group by technology on the list of The Hydran ranks

 

 

Always got that feeling from the Wyn. No one in our group played em.

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Re: Star Fleet Battles Starships

 

Huh? The phaser fired backwards will have the same kind of effect as a torpedo fired backwards. The moment it leaves the warp bubble' date=' it is no longer traveling at its relative faster than light speed. And will continue like it did while in the bubble until it hits or otherwise is discharged, destroyed, etc. As such, if another ship runs over it, it will collide with it. This is much the same way that a rock thrown out of the sun roof of one car can hit and damage a car behind it.[/quote']

And here is the misunderstanding:

On the one side, a torpedo generates it's own warp bubble. As such it would never leave warp.

The phase shoot on the onter hand isn't one compact object with it's own warp field. It's a strem of energy and a stream of energy is one thing: lots, lots and lots of small energy-packages. Best way to picture it is a focussed, high-pressure stream of sand (except that the grains have no mass). Even if you exlcude wind from the calculation, when you fire that stream of sand against the road while driving you will see that driving with higher speed leaves less grains/meter than driving with slower speed. There are simply only so many grains, and the faster you drive the higher the area over wich they spread.

In the chase of a phaser the road/universe is moving with 300,000 km/s (Lightspeed/Warp 1) to 31 times that fast (warp 3). And since energy-packages have no mass, those few "grains" that actually make it to yuor target (over then span of multiple lightseconds or Millions of Kilometers) won't even bother your targets shields.

 

As to planet to planet torpedoes, it should be noted that in the 25th century, one doesn't have to 'bomb' a planet in a conventional sense in order to inflict life killing affects. Bio, chem, nuclear, etc. And if that planet is the home territory and largest population base for your enemy, it doesn't take more to start justifying building small compact ships that can go that distance. And since you don't have to worry about sustaining life on bored, it doesn't have to be bigger than an engine, weapon system, and navigation system. Given the original enterprise wasn't that large yet was capable of sustaining warp 4-5 flight for long periods at a time, I think the possibility of doing such things on a smaller weapon scale is possible.

 

But like with all other RPG endeavors, there is a certain need to remember to not let the 'facts' get in the way of a good story.

Afaik there were only a few instances of interplanetary bioweapons ins Star Trek, both in DS 9 in epsiodes dealing with the Marqui. In the one they used a element that made planets inhospitable for cardassians (but not others) - until Sisko used the same trick against marquis colonies.

The other was a bluff, consisting of multiple self guided, random walking, cloaked bioweapon-missiles (wich turned out to be a ruse). Overall I think uncloaked ships/torpedoes would be seen from afar and stopped with controlled torpedo fire. Or by the planetary shield. Or by any ship capable of intercepting it.

Of course your idea of "interplanetary atom-bombers" could be usefull for a scenario (just picture the Cold War, with two pre-warp cultures in the same planetsystem), but overall I doubt this couldn't be countered with little effort by any planetary defense grid.

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