Killiing a lot of zombies from a safe position.

[Trencher]

I am doing a zombie campain now and I need some suggestions for some quick and easy rules for determing how much ammo the characters spends when killing zombies en masse from a safe position. Taking into consideration shooters fatiuge, they skill level and their ocv. Rules both for expert snipers and regular folks and everyone in between.

 

I am thinking figuring out the roll they need to hit them in the head, counting up the zombies they need to shoot, figuring out the numbers of rolls they need to hit and do a die roll to find out how lucky they are today. So I know how many zombies they killed and how much ammo they used doing it.

 

Basically I dont want to have the characters roll every shot when they are on a roof surrounded by two hundred zombies and have five boxes of ammo with hundred bullets each.

[csyphrett]

Re: Killiing a lot of zombies from a safe position.

 

Roll to hit once, roll damage, roll how many zombies were hit by the damage

CES

[megaplayboy]

Re: Killiing a lot of zombies from a safe position.

 

Hmm. High shot(1 in 3 chance of a head shot) is a -4 OCV, while head shot(100% chance) is a -8 OCV. From a safe position a character can brace and set, for +1 OCV and cancellation of range mods out to 32 meters. Assuming zombies have a base dcv of no better than 3, and a PC with a decent gun(built in +1 CV) has at least a 5 base OCV, that looks like 1 kill per 5 shots, or 20 kills per 100 rounds expended. 100 kills for 500 available rounds. If they have a better base OCV(say, 6, with at least one level with their guns), then they can raise the number of kills. But my guess is that, at best(say, a modified OCV of 10, vs. a base DCV of 3: 10- for a direct head shot, 14- for a high shot), they could manage 1 kill per 2-3 bullets expended. And that's with really good marksmen, bracing and setting, with decent guns. Firing with no called shots, you need to roll a 3, 4 or 5 for hit location(roughly a 5% chance of doing this), so you'd get only 1 kill per 20 hits. If you have military guys who haven't been told where exactly they need to shoot the target, opening fire at max range(300 meters), they might go through a couple clips and be thoroughly demoralized by the time the zombies get to a distance where they're actually stopping a significant portion. Food for thought(pun intended).

[Hyper-Man]

Re: Killiing a lot of zombies from a safe position.

 

The thread title reminded me of a famous quote:

“Nuke the entire site from orbit--it's the only way to be sure”

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: Killiing a lot of zombies from a safe position.

 

I've been thinking for quite some time now that it's quite appropriate to give Zeds something like this...

 

No Survival Instinct -Physical Complication: Zombies don't defend themselves, don't take evasive action, and move predictably most of the time. All Hit Location Penalties are halved for purposes of aiming, just as if they had been Surprised Out of Combat

[Susano]

Re: Killiing a lot of zombies from a safe position.

 

Just in case you need it: http://surbrook.devermore.net/adaptationscreatures/fiction/solanum_zombie.html

 

Stats for a World War Z zombie.

[megaplayboy]

Re: Killiing a lot of zombies from a safe position.

 

I've been thinking for quite some time now that it's quite appropriate to give Zeds something like this...

 

No Survival Instinct -Physical Complication: Zombies don't defend themselves, don't take evasive action, and move predictably most of the time. All Hit Location Penalties are halved for purposes of aiming, just as if they had been Surprised Out of Combat

 

That might be reasonable, since it often looks like it's much easier to plug a zombie in the head than it is to do the same to a living, evading human.

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: Killiing a lot of zombies from a safe position.

 

That might be reasonable' date=' since it often looks like it's much easier to plug a zombie in the head than it is to do the same to a living, evading human.[/quote']

 

That was my thought. Even relative newbs don't seem to have huge aiming problems in ZA games.

Something like this'd change your calculations, tho.

[Susano]

Re: Killiing a lot of zombies from a safe position.

 

In Left 4 Dead infected are vulnerable to shots to any part of the body. However, they move quickly and leading them can be a problem. Ramping up the difficulty level (and adding the 'Realism' option) can make it so only headshots count. At that point, shotguns come into their own. You also want to use a lot of fire (Molotovs and fuel cans) as well as pipe bombs and other items to get rid of them. I can rack up kills in the hundreds on Easy and Normal, but find Advanced to be never-wracking and don't even want to consider Expert.

[megaplayboy]

Re: Killiing a lot of zombies from a safe position.

 

That was my thought. Even relative newbs don't seem to have huge aiming problems in ZA games.

Something like this'd change your calculations, tho.

 

well, it'd make head shots -4 and high shots -2. With a decent firearm(+1 OCV for most of the sample guns on the Dark Champions/HSEG list), plus bracing and setting(+1 OCV, +4 vs. range mods), and a minimum base OCV of 3(a "newb"), and assuming at least WF: small arms, then you get 11- for high shot-- 1kill per 5 shots, even for a base OCV 3. For head shots, 2 kills per 5 shots. OR 200 kills for 500 rounds. Go up to OCV 5 base, then you get 11- for head shots--3 kills per 5 shots.

 

At a level where kill shots are near-automatic(OCV 7-10), then you have to contemplate "upgrading" some zombies, ala Resident Evil/Left 4 Dead or simply the sprinting zombies of more recent vintage.

[Susano]

Re: Killiing a lot of zombies from a safe position.

 

well, it'd make head shots -4 and high shots -2. With a decent firearm(+1 OCV for most of the sample guns on the Dark Champions/HSEG list), plus bracing and setting(+1 OCV, +4 vs. range mods), and a minimum base OCV of 3(a "newb"), and assuming at least WF: small arms, then you get 11- for high shot-- 1kill per 5 shots, even for a base OCV 3. For head shots, 2 kills per 5 shots. OR 200 kills for 500 rounds. Go up to OCV 5 base, then you get 11- for head shots--3 kills per 5 shots.

 

At a level where kill shots are near-automatic(OCV 7-10), then you have to contemplate "upgrading" some zombies, ala Resident Evil/Left 4 Dead or simply the sprinting zombies of more recent vintage.

 

Don't forget, getting ahold of any weapon with a telescopic sight will up these numbers dramatically.

[megaplayboy]

Re: Killiing a lot of zombies from a safe position.

 

Don't forget' date=' getting ahold of any weapon with a telescopic sight will up these numbers dramatically.[/quote']

 

True. I think the primary deterrent to just planting oneself on a rooftop with tons of ammo and a scoped rifle is twofold:

1. You're eventually going to run out of ammo, and then you're stuck on a rooftop surrounded by zombies.

2. The gunshots will eventually attract more zombies than you can kill with your available ammo supply. See Rule 1.

[Lawnmower Boy]

Re: Killiing a lot of zombies from a safe position.

 

Hmm. High shot(1 in 3 chance of a head shot) is a -4 OCV' date=' while head shot(100% chance) is a -8 OCV. From a safe position a character can brace and set, for +1 OCV and cancellation of range mods out to 32 meters. Assuming zombies have a base dcv of no better than 3, and a PC with a decent gun(built in +1 CV) has at least a 5 base OCV, that looks like 1 kill per 5 shots, or 20 kills per 100 rounds expended. 100 kills for 500 available rounds. If they have a better base OCV(say, 6, with at least one level with their guns), then they can raise the number of kills. But my guess is that, at best(say, a modified OCV of 10, vs. a base DCV of 3: 10- for a direct head shot, 14- for a high shot), they could manage 1 kill per 2-3 bullets expended. And that's with really good marksmen, bracing and setting, with decent guns. Firing with no called shots, you need to roll a 3, 4 or 5 for hit location(roughly a 5% chance of doing this), so you'd get only 1 kill per 20 hits. If you have military guys who haven't been told where exactly they need to shoot the target, opening fire at max range(300 meters), they might go through a couple clips and be thoroughly demoralized by the time the zombies get to a distance where they're actually stopping a significant portion. Food for thought(pun intended).[/quote']

 

This would be why they invented that artillery stuff. Stand on the roof, survey the assembled hordes, get snugly under cover, call in a round or two of 81mm mortar fire. You probably don't want to fire phosphorus rounds into a built environment adjacent to your building, but a few rounds of HE should be devastating. There'll be a lot of direct headshots from the fragments, and you really have to have the writers on your side to make a limbless zombie dangerous. In the aftermath, take a short stroll through the scattered remains putting 9mm pistol rounds into intact crania, and get to high ground again before another herd shows up.

 

Or be completely merciless and hose the remains with SAW fire or incendiary grenades.

 

Again, the reason that zombies are dangerous is that the writers are on their side.

[Cancer]

Re: Killiing a lot of zombies from a safe position.

 

Artillery, and squad level machine guns. It seems odd that a 1916-era infantry platoon, properly dug in and with the customary level of supplies for such a unit, would be pretty much invulnerable to zombies until their ammo ran out. Given there are records of the old .30 cal Brownings firing over a million rounds without a hitch, and slow-moving zombies are a lot like 1915-era Tommies carrying 75-pound backpacks in terms of mobility and tactics.

[Vulcan]

Re: Killiing a lot of zombies from a safe position.

 

Are we looking at magic zombies (animated dead bodies) or virus zombies (pain and shock resistant living bodies)? That makes a pretty big difference in what it takes to kill one.

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: Killiing a lot of zombies from a safe position.

 

Are we looking at magic zombies (animated dead bodies) or virus zombies (pain and shock resistant living bodies)? That makes a pretty big difference in what it takes to kill one.

While's it's a bit of a thread de-rail, just gotta say I find it kinda amusing that some gamers have who have no problem accepting rubber science like superpowers and FTL travel balk at reanimating corpses. The Zombie Survival Guide throws a whole chapter into explaining (in more plausible sounding pseudoscience than your average Treknobabble) how a z-type virus could do it's thing.

[megaplayboy]

Re: Killiing a lot of zombies from a safe position.

 

If it's a fungus, then it seems like a crop duster loaded with a strong fungicide would be optimal. If they're living beings who are simply deranged by a virus, then poison gas or poison meat would seem like the way to go. If they're quasi-magical zombies who no longer have a working or needed cardiovascular system(anerobic function, very slow decay, very efficient metabolism, no pain receptors), then you pretty much have to kill the brain or grind them/blast them into mush.

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: Killiing a lot of zombies from a safe position.

 

If it's a fungus' date=' then it seems like a crop duster loaded with a strong fungicide would be optimal. If they're living beings who are simply deranged by a virus, then poison gas or poison meat would seem like the way to go. If they're quasi-magical zombies who no longer have a working or needed cardiovascular system(anerobic function, very slow decay, very efficient metabolism, no pain receptors), then you pretty much have to kill the brain or grind them/blast them into mush.[/quote']

speaking of Zombie Cardio, I've always assumed if fluid transfer occurs in any significant way (which is one of the big zombie complaints, carrying energy to the systems) the virus would use the lymphatic system, as its has no pumping organ and uses body motion.

[Gary Miles]

Re: Killiing a lot of zombies from a safe position.

 

The thread title reminded me of a famous quote:

“Nuke the entire site from orbit--it's the only way to be sure”

I was thinking about calling in an FAE strike:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermobaric_weapon

[Trencher]

Re: Killiing a lot of zombies from a safe position.

 

they could manage 1 kill per 2-3 bullets expended. And that's with really good marksmen' date=' bracing and setting, with decent guns. Firing with no called shots, you need to roll a 3, 4 or 5 for hit location(roughly a 5% chance of doing this), so you'd get only 1 kill per 20 hits. If you have military guys who haven't been told where exactly they need to shoot the target, opening fire at max range(300 meters), they might go through a couple clips and be thoroughly demoralized by the time the zombies get to a distance where they're actually stopping a significant portion. Food for thought(pun intended).[/quote'] This is very good. Thanks a lot.

 

No Survival Instinct -Physical Complication: Zombies don't defend themselves, don't take evasive action, and move predictably most of the time. All Hit Location Penalties are halved for purposes of aiming, just as if they had been Surprised Out of Combat

Nice! I will steal it

Are we looking at magic zombies (animated dead bodies) or virus zombies (pain and shock resistant living bodies)? That makes a pretty big difference in what it takes to kill one.

I go for classic Romero zombies in this campain.

 

Allright I am thinking making a ranged roll and the number of points you make it or miss it with adds 5% to the number of bullets you spend or lessen the number of zombies you kill.

based on this list

Ocv 1: 600 per 100 zombies

Ocv 2: 500 per 100 zombies

Ocv 3: 450 per 100 zombies

Ocv 4: 400 per 100 zombies

Ocv 5: 300 per 100 zombies

Ocv 6: 250 per 100 zombies

Ocv 7: 200 per 100 zombies

Ocv 8: 175 per 100 zombies

Ocv 9: 150 per 100 zombies

Ocv 10:100 per 100 zombies

Ocv 11:75 per 100 zombies

What do you guys think?

[Zeropoint]

Re: Killiing a lot of zombies from a safe position.

 

How do you manage to kill 100 zombies with only 75 rounds of ammunition?

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: Killiing a lot of zombies from a safe position.

 

How do you manage to kill 100 zombies with only 75 rounds of ammunition?

 

Line up multiple shots with heavy AP ammo?

Bet a .50BMG fired on a head level plane could cut a pretty deep file of kills.

[AmadanNaBriona]

Re: Killiing a lot of zombies from a safe position.

 

Actually, thinking about it, it wouldn't be hard to hand mill sabots with a hobby lathe, or a CAD mill could crank them out to order in double time, and you can get some NASTY penetration with a proper 12 gauge sabot. Stick with something comparatively easy to manufacture and with multi-mission functionality.

 

The heavy stuff really isn't that much harder to make, however, and still is kinda the queen of defense, although in thinning the herd like this I'd totally use a .22, magnum for preference, LR otherwise, because it's bloody easy to pinpoint shoot with and its everywhere.

[Susano]

Re: Killiing a lot of zombies from a safe position.

 

How do you manage to kill 100 zombies with only 75 rounds of ammunition?

 

In Left 4 Dead you get penetration, in which one round can go through more than one infected. Also, shotgun blasts can take down 2-3 infected with a single shell. So... it's possible.

[freakboy6117]

Re: Killiing a lot of zombies from a safe position.

 

if they are in a safe position why are they using valuable ammo why not just lure the dead into a choke point and drop bricks on them or lure them into an industrial shredder