Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities

[Shadow Hawk]

Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities

 

Dawkins is a jerk who makes nonbelievers look bad.

Dawkins sees no difference between the fanatic who shot up the Sikh temple and the Sikhs who were worshiping there.

By his 'logic' there is no difference between myself (a quiet nonbeliever) and himself (a jerk).

[Enforcer84]

Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities

 

He's the guy that many atheists point at and say "Oh MY GOD!"

then they facepalm

 

A large number probably think he's awesome, too - or he wouldn't have the clout he does.

 

 

 

Edit: But he's not the topic of conversation

[Ranxerox]

Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities

 

Now I will absolutely grant that "borderline-pornographic" imagery can lead to a type of sexism, in much the same way as showing women cooking, cleaning or raising children can also lead to a type of sexism. But this is not because any of the above acts are inherently sexist.

 

The sexism comes from the thoughts and reactions that follow viewing such imagery.

 

It is really easy and common to make photos that visually reduce women to objects of sexual gratification. All you have to do is focus the picture on model's breast, ass, vagina or dress and/or pose the model in such way as to make her breast, ass or vagina particularly prominent. A person can look at such a picture and not be lead to sexist thoughts just like a person can listen to a sad song and not be made sad, but that is more in spite of the "art" than because such pictures are neutral.

 

It is possible to make pictures of women cooking, cleaning or raising children that through composition visually reduce to the women to domestic servants or child care providers at the expense of their greater humanity. However, this takes more skill than hypersexualized pictures require since the photographer needs to find visual ways to deemphasize the models' individuality . Lacking that skill the photographer will merely make pictures of women who at that moment happen to be cooking, cleaning or helping a child. Still, if we were to devote am entire thread primarily to such pictures the net effect would be pretty sexist.

[Hermit]

Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities

 

A large number probably think he's awesome, too - or he wouldn't have the clout he does.

 

 

 

At first glance, I read that as "A large number probably think he's awesome, too - or he wouldn't have the CULT he does."

 

[Querysphinx]

Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities

 

At first glance, I read that as "A large number probably think he's awesome, too - or he wouldn't have the CULT he does."

 

Amounts to the same thing.

[Matt the Bruins]

Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities

 

Taken to an extreme, disbelief bears a striking resemblance to zealous religious belief. The same certainty of one's rightness and superiority over all those "wrong" fools is certainly present.

[Querysphinx]

Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities

 

Taken to an extreme' date=' disbelief bears a striking resemblance to zealous religious belief. The same certainty of one's rightness and superiority over all those "wrong" fools is certainly present.[/quote']

When faced with a radical atheist, my usual stance is. "I can't spend time fighting for tolerance of my atheism because I'm too busy fighting against the intolerance of yours."

[Cygnia]

Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities

 

Convention harassment's been a problem for decades.

 

[h=2]We Don’t Do That Anymore[/h]

[Querysphinx]

Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities

 

Convention harassment's been a problem for decades.

 

We Don’t Do That Anymore

 

 

Good grief that sucks.

[Pattern Ghost]

Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities

 

I was mildly surprised about Asimov. Not so much Ellison. He's needed a boot to the head for years, just on the grounds of being a miserable, egocentric little turd and bully.

[Hermit]

Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities

 

Yeah, hearing about Asimov's behavior saddens me. I always enjoyed his stories, and it's always sad to find out one of your idols is a bit of a ##$#

[Querysphinx]

Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities

 

I was mildly surprised about Asimov. Not so much Ellison. He's needed a boot to the head for years' date=' just on the grounds of being a miserable, egocentric little turd and bully.[/quote']

 

I know Ellison second hand. He's really insecure. Not an excuse for being a twerp, but it fits his personality.

[Lucius]

Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities

 

Yes' date=' but the point would e that there would never be any interaction between men and women. Completely separate worlds. Boys and girls would be born, grow old, and die without ever having to interact with each other. They would never miss what they never experienced.[/quote']

 

Sometimes I think that's where we'll end up, but it's going to take a long time.

 

Interestingly enough, when the topic came up before on here, someone said it would never happen because people love being miserable too much.

 

Lucius Alexander

 

The palindromedary has a Y chromosome and a Y-not? chromosome

[Cancer]

Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities

 

Yes' date=' but the point would e that there would never be any interaction between men and women. Completely separate worlds. Boys and girls would be born, grow old, and die without ever having to interact with each other. They would never miss what they never experienced.[/quote']

 

Thing is, that's the opposite of a solution: it's the forerunner to utter catastrophe. Historically, every separate-community sort of solution has been prelude to marginalization en route to all but extinction. Call them pogroms, reservations, whatever: separating out those who are different inevitably means those who are deemed different are defined to be less than human and unworthy of full human status, and then systematic denial of resources and full status to those in that "different" bin. I am not going to speculate, let alone work out, who would be the real humans and who would be the other in the male-female division, because each alternative is monstrous in its own way. That keep-separate-from-birth arrangement also annihilates other segments of the between-the-sexes human experience which are not ugly and it abandons forever any hope of overcoming the problem rather than surrendering to it. And do not throw the baby out with the bath water by saying all men are rapists at core and there's no way around it. Reality is uglier than lots of us like to admit, but it is not irremediably hateful, either.

[Cygnia]

Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities

 

[h=1]Crap People Say About Sexual Harassment[/h]

[Tasha]

Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities

 

I love this link

Enough with the Aspie Bit Already

 

AKA just because you are so socially inept and geeky that you might be diagnosed with Aspergers, doesn't give you licence to treat women in that way.

 

PS I would rep Cygnia (Again), but I must spread around rep before blah blah... Nice posts keeping this thread alive.

[Tasha]

Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities

 

Also since these threads all end up talking about the issue of Majority Privilege with an argument from the majority as to why they don't see their privilege. Here is a post explaining what we are all talking about, so that those who don't really understand can possibly start to.

 

http://weeklysift.com/2012/09/10/the-distress-of-the-privileged/

[Tasha]

Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities

 

Wow Jim Hines has a ton of great links.

 

http://www.jimchines.com/rape/

[Pattern Ghost]

Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities

 

Jim's a good guy.

[Pattern Ghost]

Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities

 

So, does all of this Con ass-grabbery also go on at comic and SciFi general conventions? Or is it more for writer and programmer type conventions?

 

Because my wife wants to go to a couple of the comic cons up here some time, and I don't want to have to mangle anyone up if they get frisky. I'm asking this in all seriousness.

[BoneDaddy]

Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities

 

I love this link

Enough with the Aspie Bit Already

 

AKA just because you are so socially inept and geeky that you might be diagnosed with Aspergers, doesn't give you licence to treat women in that way.

 

PS I would rep Cygnia (Again), but I must spread around rep before blah blah... Nice posts keeping this thread alive.

Ditto on all counts, and got that rep for you.

[casualplayer]

Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities

 

So, does all of this Con ass-grabbery also go on at comic and SciFi general conventions? Or is it more for writer and programmer type conventions?

 

Because my wife wants to go to a couple of the comic cons up here some time, and I don't want to have to mangle anyone up if they get frisky. I'm asking this in all seriousness.

 

Used to be that women were pretty darn scarce at cons, and treated like an alien species. Still remember the Trek con I went to when I was in high school that had Marina Sirtis as a guest, the intense, teeming hordes surrounding her wanting something they dare not name. Waves of flopsweat lechery. A girl throw into that stew wouldn't have stood a chance.

 

I also remember Pacificon 91, where my girlfriend's GM just kept "bumping" into her. Almost had to put him down hard. I also scored big points at a early 90's con by offering to gift my soda to a lady so she could throw it in a creeper's face.

 

While there is still improvement to be made, those days are mostly done. Geek social skills have come a long way. Admittedly they started out with nowhere to go but up, but they have dramatically improved. Your wife might get a lot of attention but it should be reasonably polite appreciation, and someone stepping over the line will likely get chastised by a passerby before you or she even get a chance.

[Vurbal]

Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities

 

I love this link

Enough with the Aspie Bit Already

 

AKA just because you are so socially inept and geeky that you might be diagnosed with Aspergers, doesn't give you licence to treat women in that way.

 

PS I would rep Cygnia (Again), but I must spread around rep before blah blah... Nice posts keeping this thread alive.

 

Got her.

 

The Aspie link jumped out at me too. It mirrored my thoughts exactly as someone with Aspergers. Using the condition as an excuse for bad behavior insults both the women being victimized and those of us actually putting in the effort to overcome the challenges of AS.

[Bloodstone]

Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities

 

So, does all of this Con ass-grabbery also go on at comic and SciFi general conventions? Or is it more for writer and programmer type conventions?

 

Because my wife wants to go to a couple of the comic cons up here some time, and I don't want to have to mangle anyone up if they get frisky. I'm asking this in all seriousness.

 

In the last 20 years, I've brought women to cons/expos for sci-fi, fantasy, gaming, comics, anime, books, toys, tv shows, cars, guns, computers/electronics, martial arts, fitness and sex/exotica.

 

In that time, it has never happend to anyone I was with. This is not to say it doesn't happen, but I've not experienced it or even witnessed it happening to somone else.

 

Honestly, the only times I've personally witnessed litteral ass-grabbery have been times where alchohol was involved (bars, night clubs, conerts, parties...)... or at strip clubs, where some guys seem to think they can get away with it with the dancers

[Matt the Bruins]

Re: Interesting article about Sexism in Geek Communities

 

I've not seen firsthand examples of the really blatant boundary-crossing, but then the female friends I've gone to cons with have generally remained in a group with our bunch of friends and probably didn't strike potential leches as easy targets. I have been at a fan/charity party where a tangentially associated actor got way too grabby with a number of young women, to the point that a stuntwoman was offering to make his inappropriateness obvious to him in the language of broken bones.